Papering with Epoxy

[neil_w]

Got it, I think. I confess I don't usually go the glue-paper route, but when I have it's been very quick, possibly because I spread the glue *extremely* thin, and have had very little bubble/wrinkle issues to deal with; also the fins have not been very large.

Yet another reason I like label-papering.

 

[Dane Ronnow]

also the fins have not been very large

These fins are nine inches long, 2.75 inches from root cord to tip.

 

[BABAR]

i Think @neil_w is more of a “put the glue on the fin first” as opposed to those of use who “put the glue on the paper first” camp i hang with.

if you are in the latter camp, a trick that may make it easier no matter what adhesive you use.

get some throw away magazines for mail order catalogs.

lay your cut out paper intended glue side up on the front cover.

apply your adhesive of choice on the paper, mainly in the center,

use a hotel key card to squeegee the glue from the center to the edges, you want a smooth thin even coat. You may need to keep a finger on the paper to keep it from sliding around on the magazine.

once you have the paper coated, lift it off carefully (white and wood glues will makes it soft fast, so work quickly and be gentle, sometimes if use the back of an 11 blade to get it started.

once you lift it off, flip the page over, you now have a clean surface to work with to skin the fin. If it gets some glue on it while working the paper onto the fin, flip the page when done for the next paper piece.

may not qualify as recycling, but at least repurposing something you are gonna throw away anyway.

 

[Dane Ronnow]

@BABAR - That is exactly what I had in mind. From start to finish. I was going to use sheets of parchment paper, but a magazine would be easier to manage. Spread the glue, then lay the skin on a fresh sheet, or page, to wrap the fin without making a mess of it. Thanks for your post.

 

[icyclops]

I always paper my fins as I do not like to sand and sand and sand using the balsa filler techniques. I use 3M Spraymount77...just spray on balsa and paper card stock, then put together, burnish lightly by hand, and trim the paper away. Simple and no shrinkage....it sticks so well that within 10 minutes I can have all my fins both sides done....and it is bonded forever....then prime and paint. The exposed fin edges can be sealed with white or wood glue before paint. This process works great.
Pros
No pressing fins between weights and waiting.
No worry about warping when glue dries, or shrinks.
Can do all fins quickly as both sides (paper & balsa) grab on contact.
Can glue fins to body tube immediately-fast.
Card stock either coated or un-coated (smooth) provides a good base for primers/paints.
Easy to seal exposed fin edges with a little white or wood glue Before paint.
Easy to trim Card stock.
Easy to do.

Cons
Overspray can be very sticky so you need to lay paper out to catch overspray or spray against an old box.
Cost of 3M Spraymount 77 can be between $10-$20 per can depending on size.
Need to spray in open area (spray is actually heavy and sinks to ground, not at all like rattle can paint).

 

[Dane Ronnow]

I use 3M Spraymount77

Does this adhesive dry hard like white or yellow glues? From my experience in graphic arts (way back), the sprays we used would remain slightly tacky. If it dries hard like glue, then I'd give this some serious thought.

 

[aviserated]

When using wood glue I learned in shop class that it is best to coat both sides of surface for best bond. Coat the paper and balsa before applying together. If glue is applied too thin, you will get bubbles after painting.

No bubbling with thin finishing epoxy. The epoxy will soak thru paper. Squeegy off escess if you are worried about weight. Super glue fins onto rocket, thicken finishing resin with thickener of choice for fillets. Bod smith finishing resin cures clear, and/or polyester resin dries clear and is very durable. You can buy polyester fiberglass resin at home Depot.

 

[icyclops]

Does this adhesive dry hard like white or yellow glues? From my experience in graphic arts (way back), the sprays we used would remain slightly tacky. If it dries hard like glue, then I'd give this some serious thought.

This will dry hard after a few hours but is non removable almost instantly If sprayed properly (coat both balsa and paper) and lightly rubbed flat/burnished. The graphics spray adhesives of yesteryear were made so you could reposition photos and text for layout.....this spray is hardcore and made to permanently fasten materials...especially paper. I used it in my job (graphic designer) to mount printed poster/artwork to foam core board....it never gave up on me. As I said, it works great for applying paper/card stock to balsa. Try it and you will never use liquid glue on your fins again.

The only way I could remove paper once sprayed with this stuff was with a solvent like bestine or acetone.

 

[neil_w]

Label paper has similar virtues plus there’s no spraying required

 

[Dane Ronnow]

Label paper has similar virtues plus there’s no spraying required

After re-reading all of the comments here, I'm leaning toward label paper (Avery 8165, full sheet). My only question is how it would hold up over time—several years—compared to white glue.

Then there's the more basic question: is this the right approach to MPR? Would you be comfortable using label paper to skin fins that are roughly 2.75" by 9" on a 20 oz. rocket, designed to fly on a G80?

 

[Bruiser]

I paper my balsa fins with Avery label paper. I go around the edges with thin CA. This has worked great so far but I've only been a BAR for a few years.

My mid power rockets have plywood fins with tabs. I will either use filler primer on them or, if the fins get really thin because of scale type tapers I'll use Z-poxy finishing resin on them before the primer.

-Bob

 

[icyclops]

Tabs are no problem...just paper up to the edge that touches the body tube. The fillets will cover any open areas if you don’t get the paper just right. Label paper is fine, but I have removed label paper From balsa before and Spraymount will not remove once dried and burnished. This seems to imply Spraymount is a stronger hold. But probably doesn’t really matter after you have primed and painted....that surface isn’t going to separate using either method. It will hold no problem for Mpr....not sure how well label paper holds up with a fin hit though... but my guess is probably just as good as Spraymount. I have used Spraymount on ply also and it still sticks tremendously.

I have rockets that I papered the fins with Spraymount that are well over 15 years old (that’s when I started doing them that way) that the fins still look great with no separation or paint cracking.

Once again, if you love to sand and sand some more....stay with the traditional fillers....but I hate to sand

Good luck