Paint Finish and Open Rocket Sims

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kjhambrick

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That is a very nice finish @Dane Ronnow !

It's nice to know that you were able to achieve it with dry sanding only.

What brand of paint did you use for primer, color coat and clear coat ?

Different finishes do affect the predicted max altitude and velocity in Open Rocket ...

One thing about finished rockets I am unsure about is: how would you model such a beautiful finish in Open Rocket ?

Do you use Open Rocket and have you made any observations: predicted -vs- actual for different finishes ?

I really am curious ...

Thanks !

-- kjh
 
@kjhambrick --

After lightly sanding the body tube to remove the glassiene finish (cardboard tube), I used Krylon gray filler primer to fill spirals, as well as any dings that occured during construction. After it dried, I sanded the filler until the only gray that remaind were small spots and spirals that were filled. If you leave more filler than this, you're just adding weight.

If you still have spirals and/or dings, apply another coat, then sand again. On my rocket, two coats of gray filler were sufficient to fill spirals and dings.

Next, I sprayed Krylon white sandable primer. This is the primer for top-coat bonding, not filler primer. I sanded the white primer with 400 grit, then 600.

Then I applied the top coats with Krylon Fusion.

Note: I didn't sand the top coats at all. Just the primer.

The entire rocket was then coated with Pledge Revive It acrylic floor gloss, using a foam paint brush.

Honestly, that finish comes from the floor gloss, not from sanding. Get your last coat of primer smooth—like 600 grit smooth—and let the top-coat paint do its thing. I sprayed 10 to 12 inches away from the rocket, three very light coats 10 minutes apart. Then I let it cure for two weeks before applying the floor gloss.

Different finishes do affect rocket performance in terms of velocity and altitude. In OpenRocket, double click a component—nose cone, for example—to open the dialog window. You'll see a Component Finsh popup button (lower right in the image below) where you can select from a number of finishes. You can click the 'set for all' button if the entire rocket will have the same finish.

OR paint finish.JPG

The finish on my rocket was modeled as 'Smooth'.

OpenRocket's ability to accurately simulate velocity and altitude is almost entirely dependant upon entering accurate weights and measures of every item that goes into the rocket. At the very least, weigh the finished rocket with everything—parachute, altimeters, etc.—but NOT with a motor. (OR knows the weight of the motor you've selected for the simulation, and will do its calculations with that weight figured in.) Then enter that weight as an override in 'Stage'.

This is the data from an OR simulation on a G74-9 motor:

Apogee: 1616 feet
Max Speed 296 mph
Time to Apogee: 9.45 secs
Total Flight Time: 166 secs
Average Descent: 9.5 fps

This is data from the actual flight as recorded by a FlightSketch Mini altimeter:

Apogee: 1559 feet
Max Speed 303 mph
Time to Apogee: 10.2 secs
Total Flight Time: 165.4 secs
Average Descent: 10 fps

In my book, that's close enough.

I hope this helps!
 
Thank you @Dane Ronnow !

I was a Kilz + Krylon guy in the olden days but I never tried the Pledge Revive It acrylic floor gloss before.

Now that I think about it, I've never polished any of my rockets :)

That's now on my "gotta try it" list for a rocket I am about to finish when I decide on the brand of paint ( definitely Krylon now, thanks ).

And thanks for the OR hints. There are all kinds of 'hidden' nuggets in there :)

And I was curious as to which of the finishes you chose with your beautiful finishes among { rough, rough unfinished, regular, smooth, optimum, ... mirror }

My rockets have never come out as good as yours, and I usually pick 'regular' but I am not really sure what the options actually mean in the real world.

Thanks again !

-- kjh
 
I was a Kilz + Krylon guy in the olden days but I never tried the Pledge Revive It acrylic floor gloss before.

Now that I think about it, I've never polished any of my rockets :)

That's now on my "gotta try it" list for a rocket I am about to finish when I decide on the brand of paint ( definitely Krylon now, thanks ).

And thanks for the OR hints. There are all kinds of 'hidden' nuggets in there :)

And I was curious as to which of the finishes you chose with your beautiful finishes among { rough, rough unfinished, regular, smooth, optimum, ... mirror }

My rockets have never come out as good as yours, and I usually pick 'regular' but I am not really sure what the options actually mean in the real world.

Thanks again !

If you've been on these boards very long, you know there are a handful of topics—adhesives comes to mind—that are rather hotly contested. Paint is one of these. Some swear by Krylon (me); others hate it. Still others won't touch any kind of 'rattle can' paint, preferring airbrushing or spray guns.

I chose Krylon because it's cheap. But it worked well for me. And until it doesn't, I have no reason to change. But, as you probably already know, there are other factors that can affect how well spray paint turns out. Temperature, humidity, time between coats, all play a role. But—and this is important to keep in mind when you're reading what I have to say—I'm a relative novice compared to a lot of others on this forum. I'm diligent, paying attention to detail, and the finish on that rocket turned out nice. My next one could easily be different.

Regarding acrylic floor gloss, Pledge no longer makes that stuff. Amazon has it for $60 a bottle (I paid $6 at Ace Hardware). If you can find a bottle, cherish it, because the stuff is unbelievably easy to use. And your paint job will be virtually bullet proof. I fly off a dry lake bed, and although the acrylic scuffs, it has never chipped.

Regarding the paint finish in OpenRocket, I used 'smooth' on that particular rocket. I'm not sure what some of the other options mean; they strike me as subjective (what's the difference between 'polished' and 'mirror'?). I know that the µm value refers to thickness (1 µm is 1 micron), but I'm not sure how thickness relates to the paint's sheen.

In the end, the difference in finishes will show up in drag—in OR sims and in actual flights. Higher gloss means less drag; less drag means more velocity and altitude.

One final note on paint, and spending hours sanding it to perfection: no matter how nice the finish is when you're done, it won't be long before it looks like everybody else's. Unless, of course, you never launch it. :)

— Dane
 
Dane --

I used to live in San Diego and my local clubs were TRASD and DART but I flew with Tripoli Vegas whenever I could.

I loved that dry lake bed down at Boulder !

Road rash ( desert rash ? ) is why I got to the point where I MIGHT fill and point a paint can at the rocket and call it good enough :)

I flew a lot of nekkid cardboard, plywood and fiberglass back then because I was really looking for AltAcc data.

The rock piles at Ocotillo eventually trashed all rockets ... first the paint and then eventually a fin or two ...

And "parachute wind sailing" your rocket after landing across a dry lake bed could make a mess of those beautiful finishes.

Now I am back in TX where I grew up and we've got praries with grass and crops and dirt.

Maybe I can maintain a nice finish here ?

Probably not :)

Thanks Dane !

-- kjh
 
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