Orion Ascent Abort Test... Little Joe 3?

[GlenP]

I copied and pasted the report and emailed it to that address.

 

[georgegassaway]

Sorry, but not actually correct. MLAS was a standalone project by the NASA Safety office to evaluate an escape system where the liquid motors would be integral to the capsule/boost protective cover.

Actually, the MLAS was going to to use four SOLID motors wit no throttle or steering ability. From the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Launch_Abort_System:

"Designed by NASA engineers and reported on the website NASASpaceFlight.com on December 6, 2007, the proposed MLAS used four existing Huntsville-built Thiokol solid-rocket motors (built in 1988) placed at 90° intervals within the Orion's bullet-shaped fairing."

What really aggravated me about MLAS was they went to all the trouble to build and launch something, but NOT to test that actual rocket abort system (which, since it used four solids with no steering, was something that begged to be actually test flown).

In contrast, the folks doing the Orion LES have just about zero interest in history. .....
Separation motor is now a single motor with two nozzles as opposed to the two separate motors used on Apollo.

Apollo LES separation (Tower Jettison) motor was a single spherical motor with two angled nozzles. See drawing, view in the upper left area.

 

[GlenP]

The fins are coming together without warping like my last attempt. Pre-glue picture showing the bottom part and sides fold up inside the top foldover portion, and the triangle edge covers before cutting out.


Here's the nose after first base white coat, before sanding.

 

[GlenP]

Fins to the left, fins to the right, ... ugh picture did not rotate properly.

Close enough for govt work.

 

[Hey Nike]

Thanks for sharing your design and build updates, I am also working on a semi-scale kit-bashed version of the Orion ATB, based on an Estes Fat Boy. This provides a stable platform on which to model the booster and motor tower. I will "black out" the fin can. I have test fitted the components and made the transition shroud. I am working on building up the nozzles and tower details from styrene.

 

[GlenP]

That is a good sized kit for bashing into this model, a Baby Bertha might work also. I was also originally thinking of using a known stable configuration, regarding to body tube length and fin size motor combination, and just painting the bottom fin can portion neutral gray or black as well, that should look good. You could even put white Roman numeral numbers on the fins if you wanted. For some reason, I think 3 fins just feel right for this Orion AA-2 model to further distinguish it from the LJ1 and LJ2. Are you using 18mm motors, or upgrading it to 24mm?

 

[Hey Nike]

That is a good sized kit for bashing into this model, a Baby Bertha might work also. I was also originally thinking of using a known stable configuration, regarding to body tube length and fin size motor combination, and just painting the bottom fin can portion neutral gray or black as well, that should look good. You could even put white Roman numeral numbers on the fins if you wanted. For some reason, I think 3 fins just feel right for this Orion AA-2 model to further distinguish it from the LJ1 and LJ2. Are you using 18mm motors, or upgrading it to 24mm?

Thanks GlenP - I am staying with 18mm motors as the motor mount was already built up. One of my sons had started the Fat Boy and it ended up back in the build pile waiting to be finished. I had been admiring the Orion ATB and it jumped out at me that the Fat Boy would be a good basis with some judicious painting and marking of the nose cone to match the contours of the ATB crew module fairing. Agreed on the three fins - I thought about changing the shape of the fins to a constant chord to look more like the original Little Joes, but they were already glued in place waiting on fillets.

 

[Hey Nike]

A quick update on details progress. I fashioned the prototype for the thrust nozzles from styrene tubing and LEGO pieces. Turns out the LEGO 1x1 cones are very close to scale. Removing the base ring allows it to be refitted as the nozzle flange. Shown here with an X-Acto blade for size reference.

 

[GlenP]

Those nozzles look awesome. Now you just need to attach them with some KRA-GL-E...

Not much new work on my build, I sanded the first base coat of white on the balsa nose, started a second coat and the spray can ran dry, that was my last can of gloss white, so need to get some more. Glued my fins on to the engine mount tube just below the body tube. I could have made the fin root into a curved shape to fit the 18mm engine mount tube, rather than a flat face. But I am filling that gap with a healthy white glue fillet, the joint is already plenty strong being attached on the top edge to the bottom centering ring as well, so this is more for appearance sake than joint strength.

 

[GlenP]

I put a little balsa on the top centering ring to avoid an internal zipper from the Kevlar. I split the lug so it would not fall in the middle of the roll bars.

 

[GlenP]

Gathering a few logos for my decal sheet...

 

[GlenP]

Thought I had a good base coat on the nose but then I got some slight crazing. I will let this dry for a while then sand it down and try again. The body and fins came out fine. Will let that dry really well before masking off the fins.

 

[slothead]

Good thread. I'm pleased to have provided Orbital Sciences Reliability support for the Orion LAS (Orbital was teamed/subcontracted with/to Lockheed-Martin for the Launch Abort System). My subcontract ended with the Pad Abort 1 (which was successful) at about the same time as LM took credit for the entire system.

 

[kuririn]

Good thread. I'm pleased to have provided Orbital Sciences Reliability support for the Orion LAS (Orbital was teamed/subcontracted with/to Lockheed-Martin for the Launch Abort System). My subcontract ended with the Pad Abort 1 (which was successful) at about the same time as LM took credit for the entire system.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...D57A9F624A8005625467D57A9F624A80056&FORM=VIRE
I think I'll launch my Zooch SLS tomorrow!

 

[GlenP]

Wow, very cool to hear from someone who worked on the actual hardware!

I made a test print again on copy paper of my decal sheet with the logos and roll bars. The logos are a little large but if they get much smaller I won’t be able to read them.

Still going to wait a few days to sand the balsa nose down and paint another coat of glossy white.

 

[GlenP]

I was working on my decal sheet, and thought I would make a body tube wrap, kind of in the style of a Zooch kit. This has the panel lines and roll bars, based on the available photos on the web. Kind of looks too busy for me, so I will just use the roll bars on my decal sheet. But, this could be printed on paper and glued to a body tube to make a more detailed wrap, if desired. Should fit a 2" dia tube:

https://www.erockets.biz/semroc-body-tube-20-6-0-long/

 

[GlenP]

One more detail I almost forgot, the umbilical shroud. Double layer of 1/8” balsa sheet sanded to shape.

 

[GlenP]

Umbilical. Might paint it black or metallic to contrast with the aeroshell. Sanded off all the crinkle, will let this continue to cure for a few days before repainting.

May paint the cardstock tower also and add the jettison and attitude nozzle outlines to my decal sheet. The white paint and cardstock paper do not color match that well.

 

[GlenP]

The umbilical hangs over the body tube just a tad. Just making this up a I go along. Using lots of Zooch techniques you pick up from building a few of his kits.

 

[GlenP]

Not much new activity, too rainy to paint outside, and still waiting for the off-gassing to hopefully avoid the crinkles again. I made some tweaks to my decal sheet artwork. I think the umbilical shroud is a tad larger than scale, but any smaller and I won't be able to hold it with my fingers to sand it to shape.

Oh, in other news, I put my order in for the Estes 1969 Saturn V, along with the Little Joe I and Little Joe II. Now I am wishing I had made this Little Joe III bigger.

 

[kuririn]

Guess you'll have to scratch build a 3.42" 1/40ish scale LJ III.
The Semroc LJ II would look nice next to your LJ III, as would the Enerjet Mercury Little Joe (from their newsletter).
https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/enerjet/ejn04.pdf
It uses the red Estes Mercury capsule and ST-20 tubing. Slightly elongated, so semi-scale.
Also there is a BT-60 sized nose cone here:https://www.erockets.biz/semroc-balsa-nose-cone-bt-60-2-8-capsule/
It's mislabeled as a Gemini capsule, actually the profile is for a boilerplate LJ I capsule. Would be a good scratch build.

 

[Hey Nike]

We had a rainy day today, so I got a little building time in. I was able to add detail to the tower assembly, installing the conduit and the four nozzles. Time to do a little sanding, shaping and filling to get the contours of the tower right. I am working from this photo of the motor tower. Next up: shape and mount the umbilical fairing.

 

[GlenP]

Was going to print my decal sheet, then my printer decides to complain about the ink cartridge, I had already put a new one in, and got out another one, but it still won't print. I thought these were name-brand OEM cartridges, but getting them mail order from overseas who knows. I hate to buy more new ink cartridges to trouble shoot, that will cost about as much as a new printer. Bummer.

 

[GlenP]

15 min on the phone with Canon tech support, I was able to re-seat the print head tray that holds the ink cartridges and got my printer up and running. Woo Hoo! Now I can finish painting, weather permitting, including clear coating the decal sheet, and finish up this beauty, along with another clone I have been working on, whose decals I printed on the same sheet.

 

[GlenP]

the logos came out looking pretty decent...

 

[GlenP]

I was thinking about painting the wedge fins with some kind of alternating black/white roll pattern, or one white, one black, one with black/white sides, but that may take too much attention away from the rocket, so will go for a simple flat black.

Maybe metallic silver with some orange highlights at the tips, I just can't help myself paying homage to the I and II.

 

[GlenP]

I used a small length of a wood dowel, and finger drilled with a drill bit by hand into the balsa nose and the umbilical shroud, I went in a little too deep into the shroud, a little bump is apparent on the outside of the shroud, I will try to sand that part out. After another coat of Rusto 2X glossy white, I am still getting a little crazing in some spots. I may need to start using a different type of paint, not sure this was due to weather/temp/humidity or not. I painted the entire cardstock tower, but included the nozzles on my decal sheet above. If I can ever get a good top coat without crazing. Also, was able to get two heavy coats on my decal sheet of Krylon UV protector clear glossy in between the rain sprinkles, plan to hit it with a couple more clear coats.

 

[GlenP]

hit the decal sheet with one final top coat, and butterfingers-is-me, dropped the cardboard it was taped to. Naturally it will fall butter-side down, picking up lots of leaves and dirt in the wet clear coat. So, I will be printing the decal sheet again and clear coating again, on those rare dry times in between the rain.

 

[kuririn]

Glen,
I saw a post by Nytrunner in the "What did you do Rocketwise today" thread which led me to a thread which you might be interested in. Too late for this build, but maybe something you could incorporate for the future:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/new-gds-document-from-dean.136251/#post-1628952
In particular note the Polaris missile on page 7 in the pdf linked in the first post. Remarkably similar to the Orion/LJ III and finless!

 

[GlenP]

Those are some cool concepts for finless rockets, would be neat to incorporate that technique into Gemini Titan. I was thinking about a ring fin or a base drag disc for this one, but wanted to keep it simple and use conventional fins since it is kind of short and stubby.