Onboard Camera's

[Sailorbill]

This is a picture of the Body tube/Coupler where the camera goes. This view is from the rear with the hatch removed.

 

[jraice]

I think that I am going to go with the refurbished 5100F... with the 512 MB memory card.

So did you use a mirror to get it pointing down?

 

[Sailorbill]

This is a picture of the mirror mount.

 

[jraice]

So the hatch on the back allows access to the buttons for activating the camera at the pad? Now thats a nice idea!

Could you just have holes drilled in the correct spot and then use a screw driver or something to push the record button? I have never been a hatch kind of guy...

Thanks, those pics help a lot!

 

[Sailorbill]

This is side view of the fairing.

 

[Sailorbill]

This shows the camera in the pod.

 

[Sailorbill]

Last one. This shows the hatch closed.

 

[Sailorbill]

Originally posted by jraice
So the hatch on the back allows access to the buttons for activating the camera at the pad? Now thats a nice idea!

Could you just have holes drilled in the correct spot and then use a screw driver or something to push the record button? I have never been a hatch kind of guy...

Thanks, those pics help a lot!

Jordan.
Yes the hatch allows access to the buttons. You push the ok button (the round one) to turn the camera on. You will hear the same sound as the camera makes when you open the LCD screen on the side of the cameraand a small green LED will light. The upper rectangular one marked video is pushed to start recording. You will hear a beep an the green LED will start to flash.
You could just drill the holes and I did this on my first camera mount. BUT it is hard to see the little LED that tells you the camera is on and recording. It is also harder to hear the sounds the camera makes.
Really what ever works for you is the best way.
My first attempt was just to put a hole in the side of a payload bay and stick the camera lens out the side of the rocket. No mirror.
My current plan is to construct one between the motor section and the electronics bay and have it dual deploy everything from above the electronics bay.

 

[jraice]

the pics just keep on coming ;-)... thanks!

In the picture showing the mirrior, it looks like a flat fairing but the side shot (with the carbon fiber showing) is a rounded fairing. How was this designed?

 

[jraice]

I think I am going to mount my coupler/electronics bay inbetween the motor section and the upper tube. It will be single deploy, so the camera wont catch the deployment but it will be pointing down so ill get a nice shot of the ground as the rocket comes down...

 

[Sailorbill]

Originally posted by jraice
Art, what is the difference with the DV5100F and the DV5100M?

Any pictures of how you mounted it in a 4" rocket?

I watched the utube video, which resolution setting was that on? You could clearly see the large pixels but I thought it was pretty good quality for under $100's...

Just saw this question after I posted the Pictures.
The Youtube was reformatted in Windows movie maker to a lower resolution to allow it to be uploaded.
The original file is over 15,000KB. and it was on the High Quality setting for the web. I will have to look at the specs to be sure what that is.

To Art yeah the video bug has bitten me. I always wanted to do someting more than just fly the rocket and this is inexpensive and fun.

 

[jraice]

I always thought it would be really expensive and complex... but I mean it seems pretty simple and the $80 refurbrished model is a bargin!

Anybody know the best parachute design for a stable descent? I have a TAC-1 72" parachute, would bring the rocket down at aroudn 16FPS... and should fit in a 4" tube. I was thinking that would make a nice parachute for this bird.

I had one thought, let me know what you guys think...

On my bird the lower section of the rocket (after parachute is ejected) will be holding the camera. I was thinking about attaching a 3-4' shockcord to the lower section, and then attaching the rest of the shockcord to the short strap using a swivel. That way the upper section can spin but hopefully the lower section will have less of a rotation as the rocket decends...

seem like a decent idea?

 

[RandyM]

Originally posted by CQBArms
The newer ones are much harder to hack to make them multiuse.

As long as you get a 220 or 230 that is a very untrue statement. There is a program "floating" around on the Internet called CronusKeys that will hack those without shorting anything. You don't even need to open the case. You do want to stay away from the 510's, but I haven't come across any in my area.

 

[CQBArms]

Depending on the firmware for the 230, CronusKey will work to open and download but you will end up with one of three files:
1. Video and really bad audio
2. Video of 0 bytes
3. Perfect file

Again the newer firmware is going to be a problem but I am sure someone will figure it out at some point.
Just saying.

Originally posted by randym
As long as you get a 220 or 230 that is a very untrue statement. There is a program "floating" around on the Internet called CronusKeys that will hack those without shorting anything. You don't even need to open the case. You do want to stay away from the 510's, but I haven't come across any in my area.

 

[Pat Butler]

Here's my setup with an Executioner. I put the camera in a payload bay and made the exterior shround out of balsa. There's a first surface mirror glued underneath this shroud.

I was able to get a perfect round hole in the body tube by initially cutting it carefully with an Xacto knife, then putting some FNF around the edges, then by sanding with a dowel rod covered with sandpaper.

 

[Pat Butler]

I cut the bottom off the nose to get access inside. I simply epoxied in a strip of balsa across the width of the nose cone. There are stringers on the other side of the balsa to give it more strength. I then wrapped electrical tape around the balsa and the battery to make everything secure.

This is also the area that I'll be adding an on/off switch to in the future. The small switch will stick out from the base of the nose cone.

 

[jraice]

does a thin shroud like that work as well as say the larger one sailerbill posted a picture of?

Anything special about the 5100F camera? Im going to walmart tomorrow to pick up some other rocket related items, I am sure there will be some cameras on sale...

What specifications should I look for if the 5100f is not available there?

 

[Pat Butler]

Here's where the camera sits. I built a small balsa carriage in the payload bay. I built it so that I can slide two balsa shims (soaked in CA) on both sides of the camera to lock it in place. After that, I then further secure the camera with some white putty-like compound that they sell at office supply stores for temporarily hanging posters on walls. That same putty goes underneath the camera too.

The only adjustement needed is the proper tilt of the camera so that I get a full field of view. That's accomplished really easily by pushing on the top of the camera and 'puttying' it in place.

 

[jraice]

just checked out target.com and they have a better selection of electric frying skillets (need one for melting propellant...) then walmart, but also has a VERY large selection of cameras. Didnt see the aipek 5100M or 5100F on the web but they had some other models, as well as a few other brands that seem similar and equally air worthy.

They are having a sale tomorrow so we shall see, maybe I will splurge and get the camera for a reduced price...

but on the other side, holidays are coming up and people are asking what I need

 

[LaneKG]

jraice,

Checkout these sites for digital camcorders before you buy.

2fidelity.com

www.aiptek.com

Thanks,

Greg

 

[jraice]

I like the prices on the fidelity items, they seem to have older models which obviously are going to be cheaper...

I am looking at two models on fidelity... DV4500 and DV4100M


I have some questions.

First, they both shoot at 352 x 288 pixels at 30FPS, but the 4500 is CIF and the 4100 is QVGA... the difference?

Also, they both have similar hardware resolution and sensor effective resolution, but I am sure the newer models (like the 5100 and 5900) are higher, what is hardware and sensor effective resolution? Does it matter for rocketry use?

 

[LaneKG]

jraice,

My experience has been with the Pocket DV which is $9 item at 2fidelity.com. It's quality is not that good, but still makes interesting videos with sound. I now have a DV3100, $29 at aiptek.com which I will loft next. It takes a CF card which the $9 model does not. I have not figured out the specs for the more expensive models. I know the 4100 models do MPEGs instead of AVIs. I am exploring the less expensive cameras so I won't lose too much if I crash one.

Thanks,

Greg

 

[CQBArms]

CIF is a video format:
Common Internedite Format.
So it is essentially the size of the video with a given rate.
QVGA is a (Q)uater of VGA so 320x 240

So maybe they are saying that they shoot native at 352 x288 (a PAL standard) but output to the above listed.

The better the resolution, will show itself in the lack of graininess or reduced graininess.

Originally posted by jraice
I like the prices on the fidelity items, they seem to have older models which obviously are going to be cheaper...

I am looking at two models on fidelity... DV4500 and DV4100M


I have some questions.

First, they both shoot at 352 x 288 pixels at 30FPS, but the 4500 is CIF and the 4100 is QVGA... the difference?

Also, they both have similar hardware resolution and sensor effective resolution, but I am sure the newer models (like the 5100 and 5900) are higher, what is hardware and sensor effective resolution? Does it matter for rocketry use?

 

[jraice]

I understand how higher video resoltion would be good... but the spec's sheet has two additional sections, sensor effective resolution and hardware resolution, differences?

I think I will start out with a 4100M... seems almost as good as the 5100F or 5100M, but half the price.

Then maybe from the 4100M ill step up to something that can do 30fps at a higher resolution, the 4100 and 5100 do 352 x 288 at 30fps, which is probably good enough.

What is the difference with the 4100 and 5100 that makes the price so different? Video resolution appears to be the same....

 

[jraice]

I am very impressed with the video quality of the Aipekt DV! The specs say itsonly 320 x 240 (not that bad)... but at 10fps! I would have thought 10fps would have looked horrible but I have to say it doesnt look that slow in the youtube video... awesome!

Sounds like the 4100M will be even more then I expected...

Any tips on mirror sizing and angles?

 

[Reed Goodwin]

10fps may not seem slow, but it will look very choppy when playing back. My old digital camera shot movies at 15fps and even relatively slow action was a little choppy. Granted, you will get video, and if you're beginning, 10fps will be fine, but you will soon find yourself wanting a higher framerate. I have a CVS cam though I have not actually used it on a rocket, but for the most part it's pretty good. My primary video system is a Boostervision camera with a high-gain antenna giving me a range of about 3000ft. I record the video onto a miniDV camcorder and then transfer it to a computer with windows Movie Maker in AVI format and then edit it from there.

My first flight with the Boostervision I simply had a hole cut in the BT and just had the camera looking straight out. I am still working on how to setup a mirror. I have a little cheap plastic mirror that I cut up that might work, but I also have a 4" wafer with an aluminum coating (imprompteau first surface mirror) that my dad made for me, though I am at a bit of a loss with what to do with it. Here's my One-Eyed Jack build and the camera photos are within.
Reed

 

[jraice]

didnt post anything...

I am going with the 4100 which has 30fps and 352x 288 that is a pretty good picture isnt it? And for $40's, wow it's amazing how whenever a new model for any form of technology comes out, the older one drops its price almost by 2/3's! But hey, im not complaining

 

[ben]

awesome! This is just what I am looking for. My dad is going for L1 so I will be able to fly my Endevour which is 4" I think I will go with the 4100 too. Gonna do what SailorBill did with mounting. How would I connect the Alt Bay and camera system together? I would like to have a seperate E-bay and camera mounting. I want to be able to fly my altimeter with E-bay but I want to fly my E-bay seperatly. Sailor do you have a dimensioned drawing and inside view of you setup?

thanx, Ben

 

[jraice]

nobody has info on what hardware resolution or sensor resolution are and how they effect video quality?

Am I correct in saying that the only thing that really effects quality is the video resolution?

With the aiptek battery setup was specifically have you guys done to keep the system from loosing power? Any shock related freeze ups?

Is a hard mount of a foam padded mount best?

 

[CQBArms]

Due to the way things are constructed, the sensor might have a higher total resolution than the sensor will actually due to some sort of hardware/software/firmware interpolation.
Short version the higher the number the better when speaking about the effective resolution. If the camera is a lot higher in quoted megapixel, than effective that's just software internal to the system "fixing" it up.
You want at least 3 mega pixel effective for photos.

Check the specs side by side,

The cheaper has lower specs overall:
4100M is 4 mega pixel
5100M is 5 mega pixel

Sensor effective:
4100M
Sensor Effective Resolution
1600 x 1200 Pixels (2 Mega Pixel)

5100M
Sensor Effective Resolution
2048 x 1536 Pixels (3 Mega Pixel)

Video rates are different:
4100M
Video Conferencing
640 x 480 Pixels (up to 10 fps)
320 x 240 Pixels (up to 20 fps)

5100M
Video Conferencing
320 x 240 Pixels (up to 30 fps)
160 x 128 Pixels (up to 30 fps)

Originally posted by jraice
I understand how higher video resoltion would be good... but the spec's sheet has two additional sections, sensor effective resolution and hardware resolution, differences?

I think I will start out with a 4100M... seems almost as good as the 5100F or 5100M, but half the price.

Then maybe from the 4100M ill step up to something that can do 30fps at a higher resolution, the 4100 and 5100 do 352 x 288 at 30fps, which is probably good enough.

What is the difference with the 4100 and 5100 that makes the price so different? Video resolution appears to be the same....