No Thunder: a little bit different

[patelldp]

Looks great! I think a classic K550W would be a great first flight...Medusa nozzle

 

[JP Morgan]

Whoa, just realized that I never posted a photo of the completed rocket. She's all ready to go, maiden voyage to be on the AMW K500 Skidmark on February 16th at the Bong. Hope to get some photos, will post them here if I do!

-Eric-

VERY nice Eric! Well done.

JP

 

[MasonH]

Wonderful craftmanship!

 

[UPscaler]

Never thought of the woodpecker! I forgot all about that!

Great looking rocket!



Braden

 

[ECayemberg]

Thanks for the comments, guys!

No Thunder has completed its maiden voyage at the Tripoli Wisconsin Association (www.tripoliwisconsin.org) launch this past Saturday at "The Bong" in Southeastern Wisconsin.

Motor Geometry Correction
First up, a correction and related discovery. I falsely reported earlier that the AMW K500 is a 2 grain 75; I assumed this based upon the 75-2G AMW L700 Blue Baboon I flew last year, and the crazy progressive thrust curve shown on www.thrustcurve.org. I was surprised to find 4 short grains and an entirely different thrust curve when I opened the K500 Skid packaging. As shown below, we have 4 short grains the associated regressive thrust curve printed on the instructions. I wonder if the motor was changed from 2G to 4G at some point to up the initial thrust and Thrustcurve didn't get the message?

No Thunder was prepped with the K500 Skid and a pair of Adept 22's during the week leading up to the launch. Launch day arrived, and brought with it cold temps and enough wind. The high temp of the day was around 13 degrees F, with windchills at or slightly below 0. Nevertheless, while my wife and younger son visited my sister-in-law nearby, my Dad, son Brandon and I headed off to Bong to freeze extremities, socialize, get hustled by Wildman, and even launch four rockets. Due to the frigid temps, I had to add significant amounts of masking tape to snug up the fit of the plastic nosecone that was suffering from shrinkage. (3) #4-40 shear pins were installed to hold the nose in place until the main charges fired, or so I thought. On pad, No Thunder was the third flight of the day:

Mr. No Thunder:

Three generations of rocket-obsessed Cayembergs:

Knowing skids are often hard to light I rigged up a "good and powerful" igniter consisting of a folded and dipped Firestar supplemented with scrap propellant. The motor lit surprisingly quick and leapt off the pad with shocking authority. I don't know; it must've been the light weight of this rocket, high initial thrust of the short grains, and the thin air, but this thing was far from the low n' slow I was anticipating.

Leaving the pad:

Reaching for altitude:

Boost was good, although it began to cone a bit near the end of the burn; I'll have to recheck the fins for symmetry and verify that the rocket isn't *too* overstable. The rocket arced over beneath the cloudy skies and deployed the tiny drogue at an apogee of 4970'. Shortly thereafter, the main blossomed...argghhh! I suspect that the extreme cold made the #4 nylon screws brittle, and therefore they sheared prematurely, releasing the nose. The rocket drifted slowly to the far Southeast corner of the park, where it was retrieved without issue. Both primary (900') and backup (600') main charges visibly fired, so we know it wasn't a charge that freed the nose.

Overall, a nice first flight. Several of us were surprised at how quickly the 5.5" rocket left the pad on a slow burning K motor. No damage to the rocket, though I'll take a look at the fins, nose weight, and shear pins before flying again.

Thanks to Frank, Bob, Dan, Peggy for putting on the TWA launches in the friggin' cold weather!

-Eric-

 

[patelldp]

Very nice! Gotta love those classic AMW Skids!

 

[JLRockets]

Eric, your son is as cute as it gets! Sorry I missed chatting with him, but I did see the flight as I was pulling up. Looked awesome. Congrats.

 

[rfjustin]

Eric,

Neat looking motor reload! Wish I could have stayed longer to see the flight. Emily was asleep in the car, but Gracie (the 1 year old Aussie) was quite interested in socializing and dragging me around the ice and snow and commence digging up mice dens. I bought my yearly pass for Bong, took care of some other business, then the three of us went and visited grandma in Union Grove.

Brandon is getting so big! It was good to see you all there.

Judy, Emily and I must have scooted before you got there...



Justin

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

Little Bit Different #8: Nerf ball

Giant Leap has the Fireball, Shopko has the foam ball.

Awesome build "E-town" and, you christened it with an AMW Skidmark! Wooooooo......:surprised:

Love the ball.....miss Shopko's. They don't seem to have those down here in the "deep south.":sigh:

"Got to go to Shopko....in my rusty Dodge....get zum milk and, bread....got a NEW hockey schtick on da layaway eh!"

 

[mannyskid]

"Got to go to Shopko....in my rusty Dodge....get zum milk and, bread....got a NEW hockey schtick on da layaway eh!"

Can you pick me up a Bauer Nexus while you are there? My X:60 is all scratched and is "obsolete". Bauer, the only way to play I wouldn't play with any other brand of stick. I can justify dropping $300 on a stick WAYYYYY easier than a rocket motor.

I figured I'd have some fun with you while I'm sitting at home sick.....

 

[ECayemberg]

Thanks Dan!

Eric, your son is as cute as it gets! Sorry I missed chatting with him, but I did see the flight as I was pulling up. Looked awesome. Congrats. .

Thanks Judy; it was great seeing you on the range! Sorry we didn't get a chance to visit more. Did your group get in a test flight or two?

Neat looking motor reload! Wish I could have stayed longer to see the flight. Emily was asleep in the car, but Gracie (the 1 year old Aussie) was quite interested in socializing and dragging me around the ice and snow and commence digging up mice dens. I bought my yearly pass for Bong, took care of some other business, then the three of us went and visited grandma in Union Grove.

Brandon is getting so big! It was good to see you all there.

Likewise Justin! Man, that Emily can sleep! Good seeing you and Gracie; I'm dissapointed Emily didn't wake up to say hi though:wink:. You sure didn't stay long; were you even at the Bong as long as Chuck was at U-turn Airfest ?

Awesome build "E-town" and, you christened it with an AMW Skidmark! Wooooooo......

Is there any other way, Gustav? Gotta love the skids, especially with snow cover to prevent ground fires....not that you or I know anything about lighting dirt on fire.:eyepop: Oh, oh, and Manny was trying to steal your 75-7600 Sconnie Sparky we discussed for T-struck; I told him he'd probably have to pry it from your cold dead hands first! On that note, winter has been brutal, no chance to get it done in time and I heard a rumor you'll be too busy at Thunderstruck anyway...so the truckers' thumpers shall be delivered to MWP11

Can you pick me up a Bauer Nexus while you are there? My X:60 is all scratched and is "obsolete". Bauer, the only way to play I wouldn't play with any other brand of stick. I can justify dropping $300 on a stick WAYYYYY easier than a rocket motor.

Manny, can you get $300 c/f hockey sticks at Shopko:wink:? I've been proud that I've refrained from comment to this point, but since "da other" thread is locked and you came to play in mine, I have to mention two things quick.

1) I could not count on 2 hands all the times you said "it should be safe" on Saturday referring to the N3Boomstick! I won't even say that about my own motors, it was doomed from the start. Instead of revising mixing techniques as Guru Reese suggested, I think the process revision should be to the pre flight/burn declarations. If you say it will fail, maybe it'll work perfectly
2) A while back you mentioned somewhere on a thread something about saving money by making your own motors. True, when you compare the cost of materials to create X motor verses purchasing X motor, but cost savings, IMO, should not be a reason to pursue RX/EX. I know I haven't saved; I just spend more to satisfy my *needs*....and rarely do I blow up my hardware
3) We all love your spirit and ambition! Keep it up and kick that sickness!

-Eric-

 

[mannyskid]

Manny, can you get $300 c/f hockey sticks at Shopko:wink:? I've been proud that I've refrained from comment to this point, but since "da other" thread is locked and you came to play in mine, I have to mention two things quick.

1) I could not count on 2 hands all the times you said "it should be safe" on Saturday referring to the N3Boomstick! I won't even say that about my own motors, it was doomed from the start. Instead of revising mixing techniques as Guru Reese suggested, I think the process revision should be to the pre flight/burn declarations. If you say it will fail, maybe it'll work perfectly
2) A while back you mentioned somewhere on a thread something about saving money by making your own motors. True, when you compare the cost of materials to create X motor verses purchasing X motor, but cost savings, IMO, should not be a reason to pursue RX/EX. I know I haven't saved; I just spend more to satisfy my *needs*....and rarely do I blow up my hardware
3) We all love your spirit and ambition! Keep it up and kick that sickness!

-Eric-

I don't think so Eric, I normally got mine from Extreme Sports in the mall next to the rink, but that place went out of business, so I'll have to order them online now.

In reply to:

1) It was "supposed" to be "safe". Turns out I was dead wrong :rofl: Next time I make an N motor, I will find you and tell you "I have this motor, it's an N20,000,000 and it's going to be a big BOOM!" then it will work for sure! The worst part about this is that I have a feeling that I will never live this thing down........I'll be known as Manny "Boomstick" Ballestero for a while, at least CJ will forget about me stealing his meatballs

2) The real reason for doing the whole EX thing was because I thought it was interesting, being cheaper than RX was just an added bonus, I see now that I was wrong in that aspect as well.

3)I remember the day you certified my dad L1, and you thought that we were crazy.......

I'm going to take some time to perfect motor making with the small stuff, then I'll be back for more......and this song will be my motivation..

[YOUTUBE]JhKNuoaGHO0[/YOUTUBE]

How could you not like some Five Finger Death Punch?

 

[gdjsky01]

Congrats on a fabulous build and flight! Did you document your covering technique for the tubing? Specifically preparation and keeping out bubbles?
Thanks and congrats again!

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

Is there any other way, Gustav? Gotta love the skids, especially with snow cover to prevent ground fires....not that you or I know anything about lighting dirt on fire.:eyepop: Oh, oh, and Manny was trying to steal your 75-7600 Sconnie Sparky we discussed for T-struck; I told him he'd probably have to pry it from your cold dead hands first! On that note, winter has been brutal, no chance to get it done in time and I heard a rumor you'll be too busy at Thunderstruck anyway...so the truckers' thumpers shall be delivered to MWP11





-Eric-

Oh.....he tried to get that motor from you? Hee hee.... *click....click*

It is true that i will unfortunately not be able to fly anything at Thunderstruck.....There's too much to do... to run the show and, i will let it all hang out at Airfest and, Midwest Power latter this year...

Manny? Could you hold that Bauer hockey stick like this? *click....click*

You see Eric, i have this idea (like a lot of other people) to take one of my 3" "Dark" Darkstar's and, make it a minimum dia. and, that motor would be PERFECT....

Manny? Hold that stick....in a little more threatening manner....please.....*click....click*

Eric....you have no idea how much i really appreciate...your doing this for me! I have to say that NOTHING makes me more happy than a good Skidmark flight.....I'll be right back....

Manny? Right, like...that....Good that looks like your about ready to come after "Uncle Gus"......with a hockey stick.......*click*......

Oh Don Claude? A member of our family has made a threatening move towards me....Manny "The Gunga-din" Ballestero has become.....unstable.....

Can i Don Claude? Pleeeeease......

 

[ECayemberg]

I don't think so Eric, I normally got mine from Extreme Sports in the mall next to the rink, but that place went out of business, so I'll have to order them online now.

In reply to:

1) It was "supposed" to be "safe". Turns out I was dead wrong :rofl: Next time I make an N motor, I will find you and tell you "I have this motor, it's an N20,000,000 and it's going to be a big BOOM!" then it will work for sure! The worst part about this is that I have a feeling that I will never live this thing down........I'll be known as Manny "Boomstick" Ballestero for a while, at least CJ will forget about me stealing his meatballs

You are correct Sir Meatball, you will likely never live it down...that's what friends are for!

2) The real reason for doing the whole EX thing was because I thought it was interesting, being cheaper than RX was just an added bonus, I see now that I was wrong in that aspect as well.

Right on; do it 'cause ya love it! You may save money, just don't plan on it!

3)I remember the day you certified my dad L1, and you thought that we were crazy.......

I was right too; at least about Manny Jr. anyway! I must say I was darn impressed when you guys returned with that rocket. It was not the typical, errr, L1 low n' slow cert flight typically found at Bong. As long as you don't tell anyone, I'll admit that my L3 in '05 was a 4" rocket, 3" hole, done pretty much before it was "cool" to do such a thing (the older L3 cert attempts were typically big heavy turds barely lifted by the might M's).

-Eric-

 

[blackjack2564]

"Manny Boom Boom"......nahhh...."Manny Boo Boo"....could be, he does fit the kiddie profile....nahh...

......"Manny Boo Boo Meatball"...now that kinda sings to you.

That could be part of the problem...listening to that crappy headbanger music while mixing motors. Probably went to his "head". Obviously the propellant couldn't stand it either!:y:

Gus straighten the kid out on his music situ-A-tion. Maybe some "tiny bubbles" ala Don Ho or even better some REAL good old fashion butt kick'n ROCK & ROLL!

Back to Eric's regular scheduled programing. Beautiful flight and pictures by the way. That rocket was made for THAT motor! It sure looked good going up.

 

[ECayemberg]

Congrats on a fabulous build and flight! Did you document your covering technique for the tubing? Specifically preparation and keeping out bubbles?
Thanks and congrats again!

Hey Jeff,

I probably didn't do a good job documenting the covering technique yet, so here goes a brief description for the tubing.

1. Surface prep: I simply seal the ends with CA to prevent fraying and add a bit of protection from water. Wipe the outside of the tube with a tack-cloth to make sure it's dust free...that's it.

2. Getting started: Cut a piece of film slightly larger than the circumference of the tube. Remove the backing and wrap around the tube making sure it's straight. tack down one edge (vertical: parallel to the length of tube) making sure there are no wrinkles. If there are no wrinkles, seal down that edge well.

3. Iron work: While pulling the loose end of the film tight, begin ironing down the film, working back and forth along the length of tube; slowly working from the tacked end around the circumference. If a wrinkle begins to develop over a solid surface like the tube or fins, I find it best to peel that area back up, eliminate the wrinkle, and move on. A note regarding wrinkles and bubbles: on r/c aircraft, many surfaces are “open bays” which the film covers to cover the bays; in these cases, it is fairly easy to shrink out defects. Conversely, on solid surfaces, such as fully sheeted fuselages and wings, or tubes and fins with rockets, if you trap air, it has nowhere to go and is much more difficult to get rid of. Moving forward, continue ironing down until you’ve worked all the way around the tube. Seal the edge of the film well to prevent it from peeling up when exposed to airflow. I wrap the edges of film onto the ends of the tubes, seal them down, and trim even with the ID of the tube with a #11 X-acto.

4. Seal the deal: If there are any imperfections, you may be able to remove them or diminish their ugliness by hitting the hitting the area with a heat gun. Monokote and Ultracote work very differently over solid surfaces here, Monokote tends to expand significantly, then shrink back down only after removing the heat. Ultracote will shrink with the addition of heat and stay shrunk. Whichever is used, the heat gun will alter the bond with the surface, so once done with the heat gun, it’s important to iron the affected areas back down to the surface they’re covering.

It takes a bit of practice, but is fairly forgiving, and in my opinion, much easier than applying a purdy paint job. Plus, Wisconsin winters tend to make the built-but-not-yet-painted pile bigger than I like in the spring and summer time; so I tend to cover as many of my winter builds in film as possible!

Try it sometime, you might like it!

-Eric-

 

[ECayemberg]

"Manny Boom Boom"......nahhh...."Manny Boo Boo"....could be, he does fit the kiddie profile....nahh...

......"Manny Boo Boo Meatball"...now that kinda sings to you.

That could be part of the problem...listening to that crappy headbanger music while mixing motors. Probably went to his "head". Obviously the propellant couldn't stand it either!:y:

Gus straighten the kid out on his music situ-A-tion. Maybe some "tiny bubbles" ala Don Ho or even better some REAL good old fashion butt kick'n ROCK & ROLL!

Back to Eric's regular scheduled programing. Beautiful flight and pictures by the way. That rocket was made for THAT motor! It sure looked good going up.

Thanks CJ!

Gotta love the ol' skids; and AMW classic propellant in general!

-Eric-

 

[mannyskid]

"Manny Boom Boom"......nahhh...."Manny Boo Boo"....could be, he does fit the kiddie profile....nahh...

......"Manny Boo Boo Meatball"...now that kinda sings to you.

That could be part of the problem...listening to that crappy headbanger music while mixing motors. Probably went to his "head". Obviously the propellant couldn't stand it either!:y:

Gus straighten the kid out on his music situ-A-tion. Maybe some "tiny bubbles" ala Don Ho or even better some REAL good old fashion butt kick'n ROCK & ROLL!

Back to Eric's regular scheduled programing. Beautiful flight and pictures by the way. That rocket was made for THAT motor! It sure looked good going up.

Gus listens to Five Finger Death Punch too!

 

[jd2cylman]

Gus listens to Five Finger Death Punch too!

So............ Now we know what's wrong with him too! :wink:

Adrian