# NASA SLI Brag Thread ... Notre Dame killed it today in more than one way

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#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
So a buddy of mine and I tag team responsibilities for mentoring the Notre Dame rocket team. Today we launched in Huntsville with dozens of other schools.

What a roller coaster of emotions.

The up part was super duper straight...down part? Weeeeelllllllll....

First, the drogue failed to deploy which is likely due to a faulty altimeter or connection. Not completely sure just what the issue(S) were because we haven't examined everything yet so I'd rather not speculate. Rocket comes in ballistic and deployed the main at velocity which disconnected the fin can and did some other damage.

The rocket comes back in and our team captain manages to fire up the good altimeter. Target altitude was one mile. We came within 6 feet = 5286'. Not only did we get closest but we also set a NASA record. Unbelievable.

Then we find out one of the payloads worked.

Then we find out at the banquet that there might be enough recovered data to prove that the other payload worked.

#### Andy Greene

##### Well-Known Member
Did USF fly there ?

#### djs

##### Well-Known Member
congrats on your successes! What motor did you fly it on? Pictures of the rocket?

- ND class of 98

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
So a buddy of mine and I tag team responsibilities for mentoring the Notre Dame rocket team. Today we launched in Huntsville with dozens of other schools.

What a roller coaster of emotions.

The up part was super duper straight...down part? Weeeeelllllllll....

First, the drogue failed to deploy which is likely due to a faulty altimeter or connection. Not completely sure just what the issue(S) were because we haven't examined everything yet so I'd rather not speculate. Rocket comes in ballistic and deployed the main at velocity which disconnected the fin can and did some other damage.

The rocket comes back in and our team captain manages to fire up the good altimeter. Target altitude was one mile. We came within 6 feet = 5286'. Not only did we get closest but we also set a NASA record. Unbelievable.

Then we find out one of the payloads worked.

Then we find out at the banquet that there might be enough recovered data to prove that the other payload worked.

Congratulations guys, it was a great event and turn out for college competition. I'm grateful to the NAR national team for letting me help out.

And I'll tell you, those three failed drogues with successful main deployments had the current and past two NAR presidents shaking their heads at the staff dinner later.

Did USF fly there ?
USF did fly. Tall green rocket with white and gold accents.

You may be able to see the footage on NAsa TVs site. They had some fantastic footage of chute deployments and descents.

#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
And I'll tell you, those three failed drogues with successful main deployments had the current and past two NAR presidents shaking their heads at the staff dinner later.
What is it with college teams and 'less than ideal' recoveries?

#### rms

##### Well-Known Member
Congratulations guys, it was a great event and turn out for college competition. I'm grateful to the NAR national team for letting me help out.

And I'll tell you, those three failed drogues with successful main deployments had the current and past two NAR presidents shaking their heads at the staff dinner later.

USF did fly. Tall green rocket with white and gold accents.

You may be able to see the footage on NAsa TVs site. They had some fantastic footage of chute deployments and descents.
I watch in amazement on the NASA webcast yesterday as on of the university rockets failed to deploy the drogue at apogee and flat spinner all the way down and deployed the main at the intended altitude for a nominal flight.:surprised:

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
I watch in amazement on the NASA webcast yesterday as on of the university rockets failed to deploy the drogue at apogee and flat spinner all the way down and deployed the main at the intended altitude for a nominal flight.:surprised:
That was the most drag-balanced ballistic descent I've ever seen. It was one of the highschool entries.

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
What is it with college teams and 'less than ideal' recoveries?
Lack.of experience with sport Rocketry deployment equipment perhaps? No telling. Could be similar growing pains a hobbyist goes through. Except schools have constant turnaround of incoming and outgoing members.
(And to be fair, a couple of the more interesting flights had deployment setup done by "more experienced" rocket mentors)

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
That was the most drag-balanced ballistic descent I've ever seen. It was one of the highschool entries.
Which one if I might ask? We had one of the WA teams qual at our clubs field.

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Which one if I might ask? We had one of the WA teams qual at our clubs field.
I'm afraid they all started to run together after awhile. Sorry
It was a ~3" redglass airframe with a round black nose. I think
As a spotter I was thinking more about whether it would land on the crowd.

#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
Lack.of experience with sport Rocketry deployment equipment perhaps? No telling. Could be similar growing pains a hobbyist goes through. Except schools have constant turnaround of incoming and outgoing members.
(And to be fair, a couple of the more interesting flights had deployment setup done by "more experienced" rocket mentors)
I'm not trying to be mean at all here, but it's a trend I've noticed, and people all see and just kind of accept.... But it should really be page one stuff. It seems the attitude with college teams is "ok first flight, get your L1, second flight get your L2, then we're all going to pump a huge motor into a massive rocket and wonder why it folded in half/crashed into the ground"

Everyone else in the hobby we recommend baby steps, fly some nice mid power, get some L1 under your belt for awhile, then think about L2 and fly that for a few years....

I understand college teams are on time and budget constraints....but the results do not support the current way they operate.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
Lack.of experience with sport Rocketry deployment equipment perhaps? No telling. Could be similar growing pains a hobbyist goes through. Except schools have constant turnaround of incoming and outgoing members.
(And to be fair, a couple of the more interesting flights had deployment setup done by "more experienced" rocket mentors)
I'm not trying to be mean at all here, but it's a trend I've noticed, and people all see and just kind of accept.... But it should really be page one stuff. It seems the attitude with college teams is "ok first flight, get your L1, second flight get your L2, then we're all going to pump a huge motor into a massive rocket and wonder why it folded in half/crashed into the ground"

Everyone else in the hobby we recommend baby steps, fly some nice mid power, get some L1 under your belt for awhile, then think about L2 and fly that for a few years....

I understand college teams are on time and budget constraints....but the results do not support the current way they operate.
And I am going to request both you stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about.

I and a friend of mine are the ND mentors. We're both L2's and have been for years with 100s of HPR flights between the both of us. We've spent large amounts of time looking over their shoulders to make absolutely sure that the flight WILL succeed and frankly I have the absolute last say as to whether or not it flies since it is done under MY certification. You have an issue with their flight you have an issue with ME. DO NOT criticize them. Got it? I did my job to the best of my ability and I have little tolerance for peanut gallery comments.

And if that weren't enough, they have to go through a LRR process in Huntsville that I doubt 90% of the rockets that we let fly at our launches could survive. So don't tell me not every safety precaution is being made at SLI. It's rocketry. That's why even in the light of taking every precaution we still angle the rails away from the crowd and put the rockets way out there.

And as far as the rate of sub optimal recoveries go and if it "seems" to higher among college teams over more experienced fliers I would really like to see your empirical data. Oh yeah, you don't have any so please stop speculating.

So what went wrong? What was a completely reliable backup altimeter decided it wasn't going to fire either the main or the drogue charge. The drogue charge from the main alt for whatever reason was not enough to push the drogue out. All of which flies in the face of our previous testing of the system. Ground testing clearly showed one charge was more than enough for the drogue on a fully loaded rocket but on Saturday it wasn't. Had the second altimeter fired it would have worked perfectly. There. Happy? S*** happens in rocketry...everyone here ought to know that.

If I seem offended I am. I take a lot of pride in what I do with the Notre Dame Rocket Team. My work helps to inspire these young adults so for someone to make a bunch of criticisms without knowing facts does ruffle my feathers.

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#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
congrats on your successes! What motor did you fly it on? Pictures of the rocket?

- ND class of 98
Haven't seen any yet but will happily post them when I get them. They flew a Loki L930.

Congratulations guys, it was a great event and turn out for college competition. I'm grateful to the NAR national team for letting me help out.

And I'll tell you, those three failed drogues with successful main deployments had the current and past two NAR presidents shaking their heads at the staff dinner later.

USF did fly. Tall green rocket with white and gold accents.

You may be able to see the footage on NAsa TVs site. They had some fantastic footage of chute deployments and descents.
That USF rocket was a work of art. I got to see it up close and in person. I never really pay too much attention to who flew what or how well a particular team did just because my mind is usually so focused on my own team lol.

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#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
And I am going to request both you stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about.
excuse me? My comments stand. College teams in general have higher failure rates than average. Thats worth talking about. You want data? I'm not taking notes when every team fires one off. It's enough that when it's discussed in private everyone nods and agrees. But say it in public and people jump all over you. I've seen a lot of teams fly. No I'm not out there watching every team fly, and there are a lot of good ones. But these teams suffer from a lack of experience, and in general are flying way past where we'd let anyone else.

It's an issue worth discussing.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
excuse me? My comments stand. College teams in general have higher failure rates than average. Thats worth talking about. You want data? I'm not taking notes when every team fires one off. It's enough that when it's discussed in private everyone nods and agrees. But say it in public and people jump all over you. I've seen a lot of teams fly. No I'm not out there watching every team fly, and there are a lot of good ones. But these teams suffer from a lack of experience, and in general are flying way past where we'd let anyone else.

It's an issue worth discussing.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
I cannot believe the audacity of some people. You came into a thread I started to brag about the ND team only to criticize the entire process with a bunch of speculation and then wonder why I am taking it personally. You want to criticize the NASA SLI program? Fine. Start your own (*&^#*e y&*$#$ thread.

Better yet, if you say you are seeing with this higher failure rate with these teams let me ask what are you doing to help them be successful? Get involved and be positive influence on these young adults instead of whining on the wrong thread.

#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
I burn rockets in. It happens. I tend not to brag about those flights.

The cavalier attitude I see across all of this hobby in regard to recovery bothers me.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
I burn rockets in. It happens. I tend not to brag about those flights.

The cavalier attitude I see across all of this hobby in regard to recovery bothers me.
You clearly have an axe to grind. Would you please do that elsewhere? Please?

#### SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda

##### Well-Known Member
I take a lot of pride in what I do with the Notre Dame Rocket Team. My work helps to inspire these young adults....
Yes, you do- I am very proud for you my friend. Yesterday, a friend of both you and, i...Prof. Victor Barlow took the first steps in getting our own group at Purdue back on track.
It is the efforts of both of you and, all the other advisors out there, unselfishly donating the time and, effort that these young people will never forget.

I'd also like to give a shout out to two other friends of many, maybe not so well known by the rocket community outside of their respective areas- That being Mark Joseph representing University of Illinois Champaign Urbana and, Darryl Hankes of Wildman Kentucky fame.

Congratulations to you all, for all you do...with so little accolades...sometimes!

#### dixontj93060

##### Well-Known Member
+1 to Mark Joseph and UofI!!

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
I believe David's just speculating.
No one's blaming the students (or you)

Please don't misunderstand me (easy to do over typed words that lack tone and expression). The Notre Dame team had a fantastic boost to apogee and their vehicle met the goal despite circumstances. They acquitted themselves excellently.

These college rocket competitions are fantastic both for inspiration, applied education, and a good dose of Murphy's law. I would know since I was one of those students not long ago. They will do engineering and payloads that a lot of sport guys would probably never attempt, and the contest organizers know that and expect some sub-optimal flights because they know as well as you do that ....unfortunate events happen. Not because of shoddy work, but because they know rockets don't always behave. The LRRs are there to help the students catch things they may have missed and also give them a better chance of success.

Now I'm on the other side and have seen experienced rocketeers have the same troubles that the college teams did. Personally, I don't want to see the students coached into how to build and fly a perfect sport rocket, I want to see them innovate, do the system engineering, mitigate safety risks, challenge themselves, and learn from their mistakes.

#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
I believe David's just speculating.
No one's blaming the students (or you)
My point, and goal, was that I've seen some excellent college teams and projects come down hard. A lot of hard work lost into the dirt by various college teams. I do think they're rushed through certs- but that should be kept in another topic and discussion.

The discussion I wanted to start, was how can we help these teams get under chutes more often. But that's being taken as a personal insult, so it's time for me to simply walk away.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
But that's being taken as a personal insult,
Of course it is! Look at the context of where you posted it!

Yes, you do- I am very proud for you my friend. Yesterday, a friend of both you and, i...Prof. Victor Barlow took the first steps in getting our own group at Purdue back on track.
It is the efforts of both of you and, all the other advisors out there, unselfishly donating the time and, effort that these young people will never forget.

I'd also like to give a shout out to two other friends of many, maybe not so well known by the rocket community outside of their respective areas- That being Mark Joseph representing University of Illinois Champaign Urbana and, Darryl Hankes of Wildman Kentucky fame.

Congratulations to you all, for all you do...with so little accolades...sometimes!
Thanks so much!

I was so happy to see Purdue back at it this year. I was wondering who was behind getting them back in the SLI competition. That's awesome!

Let me tell you something, because of this hobby:

- I've met Karri Byron
- I assisted with flying the gigantic team project "Group Therapy"
- I've had my name and picture in the local newspapers several times
- I even participated in getting a porta potty to fly
- Heck, I've even met astronauts (thats a great story BTW)

Nothing, and I mean nothing I've done in this hobby has been more rewarding that helping this team out. It's a roller coaster of emotions to be sure but when you're sitting amongst all those smiling faces under the Saturn V at the space museum for the banquet its all worthwhile. And frankly, I got a lot of accolades Saturday night from the students I've been working with. A lot of, "we couldn't have done this without you" and "thanks so much for all the advice" or "I've leaned so much because of this project" and on and on. If anyone is despairing for this generation they need to come hang out with my ND students.

#### kyle

##### Space: mostly nothing, partially stars
And I am going to request both you stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about.

I did my job to the best of my ability and I have little tolerance for peanut gallery comments.

Oh yeah, you don't have any so please stop speculating.

There. Happy? S*** happens in rocketry...everyone here ought to know that.

If I seem offended I am.
I love it! I have never met Dave Allen and I hope I never do. Post stuff on an open forum and get p.o'd when people post something you don't like.

Congrats on the team, by the way, that's awesome.

One of my first reply posts on this forum got a massive butt-hurt reply from DAllen because my idea didn't agree with his. Apparently he (you) only want responses he's comfortable with, call him Mr. President.

If you don't want negative feedback, please avoid the internet, Mr. Perfect, sir.

#### djs

##### Well-Known Member
- I've met Karri Byron.
Gotta love how this one is first on the list.

My wife comments on how many interesting and cool people I meet through the hobby. And my non rocketry friends think i'm some sort of deranged mad scientist (hah!).

#### djs

##### Well-Known Member
hope I never do.
There's a few people on the forum that I have "not so great" opinions on, based on their online postings. However, I always hold out the hope that online persona is only a hyper-filtered subset of their real personality, and that I would get along with them in real life if we met at a launch.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
I love it! I have never met Dave Allen and I hope I never do. Post stuff on an open forum and get p.o'd when people post something you don't like.

Congrats on the team, by the way, that's awesome.

One of my first reply posts on this forum got a massive butt-hurt reply from DAllen because my idea didn't agree with his. Apparently he (you) only want responses he's comfortable with, call him Mr. President.

If you don't want negative feedback, please avoid the internet, Mr. Perfect, sir.
ahhh yes I found that ancient thread from 2013. Jeez...hold a grudge much lol? Maybe it's time to let go?

Oh and thanks for the congrats.

#### SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda

##### Well-Known Member
I was so happy to see Purdue back at it this year. I was wondering who was behind getting them back in the SLI competition. That's awesome!

Let me tell you something, because of this hobby:

- I've met Karri Byron
- I assisted with flying the gigantic team project "Group Therapy"
- I've had my name and picture in the local newspapers several times
- I even participated in getting a porta potty to fly
- Heck, I've even met astronauts (thats a great story BTW)

Nothing, and I mean nothing I've done in this hobby has been more rewarding that helping this team out. It's a roller coaster of emotions to be sure but when you're sitting amongst all those smiling faces under the Saturn V at the space museum for the banquet its all worthwhile. And frankly, I got a lot of accolades Saturday night from the students I've been working with. A lot of, "we couldn't have done this without you" and "thanks so much for all the advice" or "I've leaned so much because of this project" and on and on. If anyone is despairing for this generation they need to come hang out with my ND students.
I believe that the one and, only time i was involved with USLI ranks up there as one of the top three memories i have in all the years i've been involved in high power rocketry!
The team leader and, some of his students were great to work with and, yesterday at LDRS (the former lead) hooked up with me for the first time since he went out into the world of Aerospace-
Some of the stories i could tell you would have too be in private because- We were kind of the "Bad News Bears" of College teams when we went. :lol:

Stories involving a Truck Driver and, a bunch of College Students on I-65 in a Major Universities four wheeled vehicle can not be repeated here due to statue of limitations rulings. :no:
I thought we were trouble until the we were at the "Show Off Fair" and, we were introduced to the crew next to us that rolled their entire airframe out of HEMP! :headbang:
Lets just say there were offers to *Smoke* their rocket AFTER the competition...:lol:

I'd better quit while i'm STILL ahead- Great memories though.

#### kyle

##### Space: mostly nothing, partially stars
There's a few people on the forum that I have "not so great" opinions on, based on their online postings. However, I always hold out the hope that online persona is only a hyper-filtered subset of their real personality, and that I would get along with them in real life if we met at a launch.
True that. You, sir, are are much kinder person than I am. I really hope I am wrong in my opinion here, and keep hoping for something to change it.

Unfortunately (based on his online persona) I haven't seen anything to suggest he's a decent human in the past three years. Except for the original post in this thread. That's still awesome for that team.

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
Gotta love how this one is first on the list.

My wife comments on how many interesting and cool people I meet through the hobby. And my non rocketry friends think i'm some sort of deranged mad scientist (hah!).
Dang right thats first. Have you seen her??? Besides, she's got a heck of an engaging personality - seriously.

There's a few people on the forum that I have "not so great" opinions on, based on their online postings. However, I always hold out the hope that online persona is only a hyper-filtered subset of their real personality, and that I would get along with them in real life if we met at a launch.
There's a lot of people in the world who cannot stand being around me in real life. I'm okay with that. I'm just being the best me I can. I'm pretty obnoxious, opinionated and I wear my heart on my sleeve - sorta like I am here. Life's too short to be a fake version of yourself. It's one of those things I am around the ND team. I have no problem telling them ideas that won't work (and why of course) and they respect that. I mean, they keep asking me to be their mentor year after year so I must get along with some people lol.

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