(modified) RW Mongoose 29 - 29mm MD "Altitude Seeker": 16,000' & mach 2

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I am hoping some others like Dave and Riley got the bug on that one and will build something that can house the 54/2800 hardware.

Oh the infection has definitely set in. I've got the FG tomach in the works, a 54mm screech booster that -should- fit the 2800 case, and a Go Devil 38 that should scream on a K1127, though I'm betting whatever red scott's cooking up will be pretty sweet. I'm jumping into EX finally, so not sure which one of those rockets I'm going to push, or when I'll be able to do it....but I'm liking the scale of it.

And I think Riley got bitten.... he's building at least 3 MD's I think...
 
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It just depends on what the other offerings are. If the other 8G's are baby H's, and the mellow a full G, then it probably will be the best motor for a G altitude attempt. If there are higher ISP propellants sized at a full G, then maybe not.

I will bet that you can build a more optimized rocket around the 6G pink (145Ns) or any 6GXL that CTI decide to make that is close to 160Ns than an 8G mellow.
 
I will bet that you can build a more optimized rocket around the 6G pink (145Ns) or any 6GXL that CTI decide to make that is close to 160Ns than an 8G mellow.


The Pro 24 6G pink is only 140 newton-sec. The best choice for 6G would probably be the G150 (high ISP and low weight plus high total impulse)
 
Yeah with acess to a big fancy machine shop soon, I'm dreaming of perfect-fitting and designed inter-stages and fin canisters, and maybe a custom casing/NC for the 38/1200 to make it a true 1.5" OD minimum diameter :drool:

Wow, sounds like a very cool 2-stage, how high does that sim to? :)

Wishing I had access to a machine shop. I took machining in high school but wasn't into rocketry yet... Maybe someday I'll have a good mill and lathe.

The sims are putting it around 21,000'. My goal with it is to break 20,000' but I'd need to find somewhere that will support that altitude.
 
The Pro 24 6G pink is only 140 newton-sec. The best choice for 6G would probably be the G150 (high ISP and low weight plus high total impulse)

Hmm - yep the main pro24 page says 145 but the click through shows 139.7. I still bet it's better than an mellow G motor though. :)
 
Hmm - yep the main pro24 page says 145 but the click through shows 139.7. I still bet it's better than an mellow G motor though. :)

There's an interesting thing about the G145 Pink motor. It seems that the peak initial thus is 350 newtons, which is almost 100 newtons more than an F240.
 
Wishing I had access to a machine shop. I took machining in high school but wasn't into rocketry yet... Maybe someday I'll have a good mill and lathe.

The sims are putting it around 21,000'. My goal with it is to break 20,000' but I'd need to find somewhere that will support that altitude.

Sweet!




To get this thread back to the build a bit :lol:, I did a few rounds of sanding/filling (with more proline :facepalm:) the fillets, so they are finally acceptably aerodynamic. It's been sanded up to 400 grit, need to pickup some higher (or is it lower? lol) grit, finer sandpaper to get it perfectly smooth and a bit shinier.




Also wired up the electronics bay. Tracker will be turned on as its assembled, and the Perfect flight CF turned on with a screw switch on the pad. Both are powered by a small 1s lipo that should power both for ~12-24hrs. Before the actual flight I'll probably squeeze some hot glue in there to secure the wires in place. I also drilled the (tiny) vent holes, and the hole to allow the screwdriver to turn it on.




Finally, brainstormed on the Beeline antenna situation. I talked to a friend who is very experienced with these, and he said that the slight coils will have an effect on range, but only very slightly and not really worth worrying over. Additionally, I may rig up a system to use a weak little rubber band to straighten the coil out after deployment, like this:

How it goes into the rocket

When the harness becomes taught under the parachute


Everything fits! The last 3/8'' easily compresses with just a little force, and will be held in position with a shear-pin (still needs to be done).



I'll weigh it tomorrow, but I have a feeling its going to be nearly exactly what my sims predicted/are set to :smile:
 
Super build Coleman...
As usual the thought that goes into a build of yours is just massive and superb....

Don't blink.... lol...

Teddy
 
Finally, brainstormed on the Beeline antenna situation. I talked to a friend who is very experienced with these, and he said that the slight coils will have an effect on range, but only very slightly and not really worth worrying over. Additionally, I may rig up a system to use a weak little rubber band to straighten the coil out after deployment, like this...

29mm airframes are challenging. I used the regular BRB antenna for my minimum diameter upper stage when flying this:

6856877134_b0fd1248e0_c.jpg


On my MD 54mm Loki L2050W flight I have planned, I am going to test one of these short HAM booster antennas I picked up off eBay:

IMG_2017.jpg
 
This forum needs more great builds like this. Good luck and clear skies.
 
This forum needs more great builds like this. Good luck and clear skies.

+1...............

Wow Dix,,,
That is one severely cool build....

I am sorry to ask in Coleman's thread,,
is that 38 to 29,,
or 54 to 38,,
It's hard to tell in the pic....

Teddy
 
Apologies for any derailment of this (very cool) thread but - tell me more about this.

It seems like I keep running into issues fitting antennas into rockets, especially smaller ones. This is VERY intriguing.

s6

No problem, I'm definitely interested in those little antennas as well. Might work for my AIM XTRA too...
 
29mm airframes are challenging. I used the regular BRB antenna for my minimum diameter upper stage when flying this:

On my MD 54mm Loki L2050W flight I have planned, I am going to test one of these short HAM booster antennas I picked up off eBay:

I remember reading the thread about this rocket a while back, very cool! The paint scheme just looks so fast, the upper stage colors and shape reminds me of arrows I had with fletching nearly the exact same color.
 
Apologies for any derailment of this (very cool) thread but - tell me more about this.

It seems like I keep running into issues fitting antennas into rockets, especially smaller ones. This is VERY intriguing.

s6

It is advertised for wideband gain 133/430/1200MHz. I did look up the dB spec curve, but don't recall the response and peak gain right off hand.
 
+1...............

Wow Dix,,,
That is one severely cool build....

I am sorry to ask in Coleman's thread,,
is that 38 to 29,,
or 54 to 38,,
It's hard to tell in the pic....

Teddy

Booster is 54 airframe, 38 MMT. Sustainer is 29mm min. dia. Dual deploy all around. Flew great. Build thread is here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-2nd-Stage-Sustainer-Build-quot-and-More-quot. BTW, rocket is now owned by a TRF member purchased as part of my "Great Built Kit Sale" a year or two back.
 
Oh the infection has definitely set in. I've got the FG tomach in the works, a 54mm screech booster that -should- fit the 2800 case, and a Go Devil 38 that should scream on a K1127, though I'm betting whatever red scott's cooking up will be pretty sweet. I'm jumping into EX finally, so not sure which one of those rockets I'm going to push, or when I'll be able to do it....but I'm liking the scale of it.

And I think Riley got bitten.... he's building at least 3 MD's I think...

yep, I have 3 to build but I'm still waiting for two to arrive. The go devil will hold the 54/2800 no problem. will the fins stay on?? only one way to find out. hoping to have some of these done for URRF.
 
From someone who knows a lot about Aerodynamics, what is your opinion on 3 vs. 4 fins? Non-MD 4 finned rockets have qualitatively seemed to fly better for me. For MD's, if designed right they don't sim (by OR) to be any less efficient either. Adding the fourth fin allows the span of the four fins to be reduced to return to the same stability margin, which in turn seems to effectively negate the added drag of the fourth fin. Additionally, the lower span means the fin itself will be stiffer and less prone to flutter. The only real negative I see is that the four-fin design will weigh more. I would only see this mattering though for much larger (M,N,O) MD's where the optimal mass is effectively as light as you can make it.

I prefer 4 finned rockets, they appear to have better "flying qualities" characteristics than 3 finned rockets (less roll, less coning, etc., with combined headwind/crosswind). Higher order stability and control derivatives being considered to be added to RASAero II will likely confirm this,

But theoretically you can show that for the same stability margin, 3 fins will be lower drag. Although as you noted, 3 fins will have a longer fin span, and thus more likely to flutter.

One thing to note, I get nervous when the fin span (root to tip) gets down to the diameter. The fin span to diameter ratio should not be less than 1.0. Additionally, I'd make sure the fin span measured from the top of the fillet, divided by the diameter, is not less than 1.0.

RASAero II appropriately penalizes the stability contribution of these short span fins, although the impact of the fillet is not included.

So I'd start with 4 fins, a fin span from the fillet divided by the diameter with the ratio 1.25, then design the rest of the fin. A 45 deg leading edge sweep for Mach 2, a 60 deg leading edge sweep for Mach 3. And then size the fin up or down to get the 2.0 calibers stability margin at all Supersonic Mach numbers.

One additional note, just like when doing altitude prediction comparisons it is very important to measure the pre-flight weight of the rocket, an important piece of flight data for this rocket will be the measured lift-off CG, measured just prior to launch.


Chuck Rogers
Rogers Aeroscience
 
29mm airframes are challenging. I used the regular BRB antenna for my minimum diameter upper stage when flying this:



On my MD 54mm Loki L2050W flight I have planned, I am going to test one of these short HAM booster antennas I picked up off eBay:

View attachment 278987

careful with those little guys, they are known for their short range in radios. a 1/4 wave wire antenna would have a better range and weigh less.
 
A quick review of the MFJ 1719S is listed in this video.

[video=youtube;sOENHmoJBCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOENHmoJBCY&list=PLtQGZBHtrIF_AsSSNpQIa8fM 5nr9YDV4e&index=8[/video]

Was not very good on 2 meters with 5 watts. From other sources they work somewhat better on 440 MHz, but not as well as a longer antenna.

Bob
 
29mm airframes are challenging. I used the regular BRB antenna for my minimum diameter upper stage when flying this:

6856877134_b0fd1248e0_c.jpg


On my MD 54mm Loki L2050W flight I have planned, I am going to test one of these short HAM booster antennas I picked up off eBay:

View attachment 278987

Is there a build thread for this? If so, I would really like to see it.
 
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Is there a build thread for this? If so, I would really like to see it.

Yes there is TRF,,,
Just scroll back up,,,
Dix posted the link for me,,
I asked as well,, it's a seriously cool build...

Teddy
 
Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly. I meant to ask him where his MD loki L2050 thread is.
 
@Rockethunter When is this going to fly? :D

Unfortunately, not for a while. Earliest would be Red Glare in April. It's mostly finished until it warms up enough for me to get a nice paint job on it. I'll be taking 2 weeks off from working on rockets to get finals over with, and then I have another week long break where I think I'll try to build the 3-fin flying case version of this rocket I mentioned at the very beginning of the thread.
 
What motor are you going to be using for the record attempt?
 
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