Loki Research 2015

[Loki Research]

Well, better late than never I suppose. Below is my opening announcement for this thread, made last week on the Loki Website and FB page due to some posting complications here.
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2014 wound down with the certification of 8 new reloads from Loki Research, 4 in October and 4 more in December 2014. Included in those were two of the largest 75/76mm motors in their respective propellant class. The M-1969 Spitfire and the M-3464 Loki Blue sit alongside the M-3000 Loki White delivering more Ns of any 3” motor of their propellant type. We saw the Loki Red propellant certified in the 54/1200 and 2000 hardware with very respectable performance. But, most impressive I believe was the addition of two new 38/1200 reloads which hold the #1 and #2 spot for the largest 38mm motors in the hobby market. One of these being the first ever certified 38mm “K” impulse reload, the K-1127 Loki Blue is sure to become a flight line favorite. This pair sits in front of the #3 place holder, the J-1000 Loki White.

For 2015 I have even more exciting news. It will soon be announced by TMT that Loki Research has certified 2 new 54mm reloads. These two reloads are by far the most impressive performance wise and are guaranteed to enable anyone break their own personal best records, and perhaps the TRA “L” altitude record. They are also the two largest 54mm motors to ever be certified for use by the hobby organizations.



The first is the L-2050 Loki White, designed for the 54/4000 hardware. It delivers an astounding 4,802.4 Ns, burns for almost 2.5 seconds and has a peak thrust of over 700 pounds. In a minimum diameter rocket, it is capable of breaking mach 3 and is unlike anything previously available to the hobby flier in 54mm. The second, and more impressive I think is the L-1040 Loki Red. It delivers a whopping 3,707.8 Ns and is packed into the 54/2800 hardware. This new red reload burns for about 3.65 seconds and has a peak thrust of 320 pounds. Stay tuned for the official TMT announcement in the coming days. Both of these new reloads utilize the new 54mm Extended Bulkhead, Single use Graphite/Phenolic nozzle, 2-turn internal retaining ring (for the nozzle end) and a "modified" standard snap ring (for the forward end). These components are now listed with various options for the 54/2800 hardware or are available individually or as an Extended Bulkhead Kit.



Please visit the "Products - Propellant" page for more information on all 47 reloads currently in production.


PS- there are only a few of each new reload remaining on hand at this time. Once I get my work load cut down and have time to make more propellant, I'll get busy making whatever I need to make.

 

[Loki Research]

I will hopefully be getting a short run of 76mm #29 throat "short" nozzles for throat sizes from #29 to #39 for use with the 76/2400Ns hardware. They are also well suited for those who are making sugar motors and need a smaller throat in 76mm. Once they are gone, I most likely will not reorder any more as the 76/2400 cases may not be made any more. If you would like one of these nozzles, be sure to let me know asap so I am sure to have enough made.

On another note, I got 2 more tests done yesterday for delays on those new 38mm Cocktail motors I've been talking about. I know, it's been taking forrrrrrrr evvvvverrrrrrr. I'm that much closer, but it will be a while longer yet still. I'm sorry.

Let's see, what else..... The property owner has done some improvements to the grounds around here, added a retaining wall behind the shop and has widened and improved the drive entrance to the buildings. Raised my rent $100/mth. :-<

I've got more 38mm hardware being made and hope to have it in hand by the end of February. More 54mm bulkheads will arrive here tomorrow. There's a few of you waiting on those.
I need to make some more sales to re-up on some large supply purchases, so anything you can send my way would be very helpful. The good news is the weather hasn't been all that cold this winter and there's still plenty of propane left in the tank. I don't turn on the heat until it drops below 35-40 degrees, but I do get tired of wearing ~20+lbs of clothing and boots.


Something else I've been considering for quite a while now. I have thought about making it an upgrade option for the polished entrance & exit on the graphite nozzles. It's a dirty mess to do and takes a good deal of time, gives my fingers a real workout too, especially my pinky on the small nozzles. Every year my costs on the material goes up, and I could use to time being more productive in other areas. It takes anywhere from 8-12 minutes per nozzle to polish them. More time is required if the throat is a special size and the entrance needs to be reworked a bit. Then for the bean counter in me, there's the fine sand paper and electricity that gets used up in addition to my time. Any suggestions here might be helpful. I think they have been out in customers hands long enough now for them to see the difference between using/cleaning a Loki Research nozzle and anything else. I don't know what the difference of the polished surfaces are worth to customers, or if they'd be fine without it. Don't get me wrong here, if I could, I'd have everything I sell look as impeccable as a new Loki nozzle, and for the most part, that is what I try to do. I want the quality to instantly show when someone picks up my products, but at some point the cost factor of that quality and attention to detail overrides any justification for it.

Thanks,

 

[Ravenex]

I'm a CTI flyer at the moment due to the cert specials I got but I do believe my next hardware purchase will be Loki

 

[DizWolf]

I'd be sad to see the nozzles go... But I'd also be willing to pay for it. Time is money....

 

[H_Rocket]

I think I would stick with the graphite nozzle and pay for them. Just sort of a visceral snob appeal thing, if I can find someone with the hardware I can borrow, I am seriously considering that big honking M-Skid.

 

[blackbrandt]

Yay! I have been waiting for this thread....

 

[Loki Research]

Guys, maybe you misunderstood me or I didn't type out my thoughts coherently. I wouldn't get rid of graphite nozzles at all. What I'm considering doing would be to stop polishing them for the list price and charge for that feature as an upgrade.

Al, I've got a used 76/8000 hardware set, and since I know you personally, I would entrust you with it. That is if you can't find it without having to ship it back and forth.
Just throwing that out there. ;-)

 

[DizWolf]

Naw, I got your meaning. I should have said " I'd miss the perfect nozzles", but of course it has to make sense to be doing that level of work. If not, I'd drop to unpolished and charge for the polishing.

 

[mrwalsh85]

I agree. Perhaps offer the option and if customers want it, charge 'em the time plus overhead for it... Make sure you take care of yourself though, so add a bit of profit.

Mike

 

[Ravenex]

When I order my first set I would pay more for polished nozzles

 

[H_Rocket]

Mr Scott:

You play dirty. Need to see how it plots for NSL (waiver) may need to wait for LDRS.

 

[conman13]

Honestly there's not really a need for polished nozzles. Sure they look nice but after q couple of reloads the nozzle won't look to pretty anyways.

 

[Wizard]

It's not about pretty- it's about cleanup. The polishing has a major impact on the ease of cleanup. I have no problem paying more for the polishing. Time has a cost, and you need to cover that cost (plus profit to make it worthwhile).

David

 

[thobin]

All the non sparkies tend to wipe right out with the polished noozels.

It's not yo hard to do yourself it's mostly just time consuming.

TA

 

[abeckort]

I'd pay more for a polished nozzle. Those things are works of art. I might have to scavenge some funds together and make another Loki order!

 

[jimzcatz]

Mr Scott:

You play dirty. Need to see how it plots for NSL (waiver) may need to wait for LDRS.

AL, I will be at NSL with an empty 76/8000 you would be most welcome to use.

 

[H_Rocket]

Thanks Jim

I need to see how the waiver would fare. Off to the simulomatic...

 

[jimzcatz]

Thanks Jim

I need to see how the waiver would fare. Off to the simulomatic...

I use the guesstamatron 3000 v3.5. It allows for dizziness and brain freeze!

 

[H_Rocket]

Cool

Did you also get Fudgefactor 2.9?

P.S. I am thinking a stock Ultimate Darkstar

 

[DAllen]

Scott...I'm really not sure if the polished nozzles make a difference or not. I'd certainly volunteer to test a few out. I won't charge anything for my services. I'll just need some reloads at no cost.

:wink:

lol

 

[jimzcatz]

The polished noozles are purty, but after 1 flight with an M1200, purty was gone.

 

[blackjack2564]

Hope you & Loki have a great 2015, sell lots of stuff and keep snap ring motors in the forefront.
Good luck & keep up the good work.


Re: the polished nozzles, I never really cleaned my nozzles. As long as the throat is clear of build up,[I do clear that out] I let the next firing do it for me.

This came about after Paul [AMW] saw me tediously cleaning one after a M-2200 firing, you know how much slag they leave. He told me how many hundreds of firings he did a year & stated something like ''you really think I go to that much trouble, it would drive me nuts". Let it sit a few days, remove what ever's loose, clear the throat & go fire the darn thing.

I never looked back, to this day, never been an issue. If not polishing your nozzles keeps cost down, I don't think most customers will give a darn. yes it is a nice professional touch, but you have to draw the line somewhere to survive in today's environment. Leaving it up to the customer to decide if they want it for a premium, is a good idea.

The 4000 loads look to be real beasts. I saw one at Airfest...impressive.

PS... make lots of money this year.......so you can get a haircut.......LOL


That's a joke, to be clear!

 

[jderimig]

The second, and more impressive I think is the L-1040 Loki Red. It delivers a whopping 3,707.8 Ns and is packed into the 54/2800 hardware. This new red reload burns for about 3.65 seconds and has a peak thrust of 320 pounds. Stay tuned for the official TMT announcement in the coming days.

Saw the TMT announcement today. Congrats! Now when can I order some?

 

[markkoelsch]

Scott, I have the test data from Paul Holmes. I was planning on getting the motor files done and posted to Thrustcurve and Rocketryfiles this weekend. Not going to happen this weekend as I am in a hospital waiting room after my Wife had emergency gallbladder removal about two hours ago. Next week sometime.

 

[Loki Research]

Mark, forget about it! Take all the time that you need, and then take some more. I have .eng files for both motors if anyone needs them. I pray your wife has a full and safe recovery.


John, you're behind. You could have ordered some any time this past week or more. They are all on the website, but only a few are currently left in stock of each.


Jim, for the most part, what you say is true about cleaning out only the throat of a graphite nozzle. However, there are certain cases and/or reloads I would not recommend this with, like the M-3464 and any of the 38/1200's, maybe a few others too. Compared to AMW motors, most Loki Research reloads operate at higher pressures than AMW. AMW had a shorter propellant length and larger nozzle throats in the same size cases, but looking at their burn times, I do not believe their propellants had any higher burn rates. Motor performance can definitely be hindered by poor nozzle efficiency due to excessive slag buildup on the entrance and exits. Then there are some that would just plain kill the performance. I'll post pictures tomorrow of the slag build up on the 38/240 & 480 Cocktail loads I tested the past few days. They had slag on the exit about .040" to .050" thick. This is of course built up primarily at motor shut down, but it would severely hurt the gas expansion on the next firing if left in place, and that would hurt performance.

To put it another way, I could drive my truck to work with the steering out of alignment and the wheels out of balance. I'd still get to work, but it wouldn't be an ideal smooth ride.

I was going for an early Axle Rose look, but I'm finding out that I'd need to use a hair straightener to pull that one off. Ha!


Again everyone, the polishing of Loki nozzles is a feature, the intended benefit is the great ease of cleaning and saving time while doing so. The "look" of the polished nozzles is a bonus when they are new. No, they are never going to look as good as new once they are fired, and the polishing was never intended to accomplish this. I would greatly appreciate it if those who have used both types and different brands of nozzles would comment on whether or not they felt that polished Loki nozzles were much easier to clean that the competition, or previous Loki nozzles, and if so to what degree.

Al, if I wanted to play dirty, I wouldn't let you buy any more H-144's until you flew an M-1969SF. ;-)

 

[thobin]

Again everyone, the polishing of Loki nozzles is a feature, the intended benefit is the great ease of cleaning and saving time while doing so. The "look" of the polished nozzles is a bonus when they are new. No, they are never going to look as good as new once they are fired, and the polishing was never intended to accomplish this. I would greatly appreciate it if those who have used both types and different brands of nozzles would comment on whether or not they felt that polished Loki nozzles were much easier to clean that the competition, or previous Loki nozzles, and if so to what degree.

Ya it does help, I have a few nozzles from the first purchase that I made and they were not polished. There is defiantly a difference in cleaning time. Most of the time all non sparky motors wipe out with a paper towel. That said after the fourth or fifth fire not so much different than a non polished noozle, still pretty easy to clean just not as.

TA

 

[H_Rocket]

Al, if I wanted to play dirty, I wouldn't let you buy any more H-144's until you flew an M-1969SF. ;-)

Karen burns those. Trust me, in 34 years I have learned you really don't want to mess with her.

I am about 90:10 on the 1969.

 

[Loki Research]

Is the 10% for the N3800?

Oh, look what I have Al.


Now you can say I play dirty. ;-)

 

[blackjack2564]

Is the 10% for the N3800?

Oh, look what I have Al.
View attachment 254908

Now you can say I play dirty. ;-)

Oh man.....ya better get the packing tape out of the picture!

Al might think it's a new way to put motors together....after seeing some of his flights, he may have already tried it!






Sorry Al....couldn't resist.

 

[H_Rocket]

Jim

I learned everything from you. Nothing there for fin stock.