LiPo batteries for the Estes Pro Series II Launch Controller

[BEC]

I can't remember the last time I changed a Duracell that just went dead and didn't leak. I don't leave them in equipment anymore. Our IT guy has migrated over to lithium cells for anything that's valuable because of the risk of damage from the craptacular alkaline batteries that are the standard this decade.

I’ve stopped using Costco AAs because of leakage. So far, so good on Duracells (also sourced at Costco). I haven’t used Energizers much in recent years.

In may ways your are right, especially when the LiPo is the primary power source for the device, they have to be charged. You can't fly your R/C plane multiple times on one battery charge because the LiPo is basically your motor, not the control enabler. Do you have to wait between flights to charge your radio controller also, or is it good to go for a season or two because it uses non-LiPo batteries? I have flown some DD rockets as long as 3 years, +20 flights, with a single 9V without having to open the av-bay. Yes, I have to prep a motor each time as the primary power source, but if I had to disassemble the av-bay, recharge a battery, and reassemble for every flight, that's lots more fiddle factor than my 9V required. That's all I'm saying.

What makes you think you’d need to disassemble, recharge, reassemble for a li-poly if you don’t already with 9V alkaline? Li-polys have a very low self-discharge rate and you can get more capacity as well as much lower internal resistance in the same mass. I was going to try to quote actual numbers to go with that but Duracell doesn’t show a capacity rating in their data sheets anymore.

Of course what’s in your avionics bay and what its power requirements are certainly need to be taken into account.

In RC, except for really cheap transmitters, the norm is rechargeable batteries there as well as in the model. Back in the days when these were NiCds (in both places), self-discharge as well as actual capacity meant lots of charging/checking before going flying, and for flight pack batteries, at the field. I used to schlep a Group 27 12V battery to the field to charge my flight packs back then…..not my favorite part of the experience. But it did get offset sone by not having to clean castor or synthetic oil off the outside of my planes after every session. But that is quite a digression for this thread…..

 

[Handeman]

I’ve stopped using Costco AAs because of leakage. So far, so good on Duracells (also sourced at Costco). I haven’t used Energizers much in recent years.


What makes you think you’d need to disassemble, recharge, reassemble for a li-poly if you don’t already with 9V alkaline? Li-polys have a very low self-discharge rate and you can get more capacity as well as much lower internal resistance in the same mass. I was going to try to quote actual numbers to go with that but Duracell doesn’t show a capacity rating in their data sheets anymore.

Of course what’s in your avionics bay and what its power requirements are certainly need to be taken into account.

In RC, except for really cheap transmitters, the norm is rechargeable batteries there as well as in the model. Back in the days when these were NiCds (in both places), self-discharge as well as actual capacity meant lots of charging/checking before going flying, and for flight pack batteries, at the field. I used to schlep a Group 27 12V battery to the field to charge my flight packs back then…..not my favorite part of the experience. But it did get offset sone by not having to clean castor or synthetic oil off the outside of my planes after every session. But that is quite a digression for this thread…..

You brought up a really good point and something I hadn't considered, a LiPo might last a long time in an av-bay. Not sure it would last 3 years like the 9V, but it might be quite a while.

The reason I assumed the LiPo would need a lot of maintenance is I once swapped my GPS unit from one rocket to the other without recharging the Tx or Rx. I don't recall if the Tx LiPo or Rx LiPo went dead, but I lost GPS track before recovering the second flight that day. Fortunately I had a visual spot and got the rocket back, but that gave me a really bad feel for LiPos and how long they last. Of course the Tx was transmitting on 900Mhz and the Rx was transmitting on Bluetooth, so that would greatly increase the power draw.

I once had a rocket hang in a tree for 5 days and both altimeters were still beeping altitude when it was recovered. I wonder if a LiPo would have lasted? Looks like I might have to do some more research.

 

[SolarYellow]

I punted. A little googling and I found that Harbor Freight sells their house brand alkaline C cells in six packs, unlike every other brand that sells in multiples of four. So I spent the $5.49 for a pack. I will use them until they suck and see how long that is.

 

[CatServant]

LiPo's are fine, but they have a huge "fiddle factor". Unlike C-Cells and 9V batteries, they have to be removed, charged, monitored, and messed with. Personally, I would rather spend more on single use batteries and swap them out when needed, then opening av-bays, nose cones, controllers and charging batteries every time I want to use the device. I have better things to do with my time then mess with LiPos, but that's just me. YMMV.

They don’t *have* to be removed for charging. With a minor mod to the case, you can provide balance lead access outside the controller. Combine that with the cable I mentioned above and you can charge through the balance lead only, although you’re limited to about 3A charge current due to wiring constraints.

 

[MikeT]

If you've been in the hobby for awhile you own serval Lipo packs for flying so that's not a issue for me. Have you ever wondered why some rocket electronic manufactures do not recommend 9 using volt batteries? Anyway to each their own.

 

[Initiator001]

My first post on TRF...

I purchased an Estes Pro Series II launch controller and wanted to run LiPo batteries in it rather than C cell batteries. There isn't a lot of information about doing this and I had to do a bit of research over the course of a few hours. I wanted to share my findings in case anyone is looking for the same information down the road.

I determined that I needed a battery pack with a JST connector and 3S (3 cell) LiPo batteries to work. I found these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5GV2D4K - it is a two pack for $30. I charged them and tested them in the launch controller. All works exactly as expected. They fit perfectly in the C cell compartment and the battery contact springs hold it perfectly in place. In order to charge the packs I used an old RC car charger that is built for LiPo batteries and got a Dean's female to JST female adapter on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSM9KNZ - I charged them at 1 amp over the course of about 30 minutes.

I've attached a picture of the battery pack in the launcher's battery compartment. It's a perfect fit.

You guys are a bad influence.

I've had an Estes PSII Controller since before they were released (It helps to have friends).

I've always used 'C' cells but with only using the controller once or twice a year the batteries tend to just discharge.

So, after reading this thread and several others, I decided to move into the 21st century.

I bought that two-pack of 3S batteries off Amazon. Then I went to a hobby shop and bought a charger, getting one with more bells-and-whistles than I needed (But it does 'beep' (A Monty Python reference)).

I will try it out at a local launch in two weeks. Let's see how it works with Quest FirstFire igniters.

 

[MikeT]

It will work just fine. I've yet to find a igniter a lipo won't fire. Even the junk Estes igniters but I dip all of mine.

 

[kjhambrick]

My 30-year old controller box connected to an external 12V lead-acid battery -- long ago dead and gone.

I need to open up the controller box and assess the state of the internal wiring.

If that is beyond salvage, will the six alkaline batteries in the Estes Pro Series II Launch Controller at 9V fire a copperhead ignitor ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

 

[OverTheTop]

Actually, that is not correct. Milli-amp hours describe the capacity of the battery, how long can it deliver current at or near the rated voltage. The issue is you don't want to use a battery with too high a voltage. Too many volts will deliver too many amps and fry components.

Actually it is mainly correct. The larger capacity cells have larger surface area and can deliver a much higher current (lower cell impedance). That's why some altimeter producers recommend using capacities below 300mAh. Personally I aim for around 200mAh, if possible.

The battery voltage/number of cells (1s, 2s,...6s, where s means series) does determine the voltage and can be a factor of how much current the battery can deliver to a load. With a short circuit (or almost) it is the internal impedance of the battery that will mainly determine the current into the short. For intermediate shorts of somewhat higher resistance the battery voltage is the driving factor.

 

[BEC]

I will try it out at a local launch in two weeks. Let's see how it works with Quest FirstFire igniters.

It will work just fine. I've yet to find an igniter a lipo won't fire. Even the junk Estes igniters but I dip all of mine.

My 30-year old controller box connected to an external 12V lead-acid battery -- long ago dead and gone.

I need to open up the controller box and assess the state of the internal wiring.

If that is beyond salvage, will the six alkaline batteries in the Estes Pro Series II Launch Controller at 9V fire a copperhead ignitor ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

I have fired Copperheads with no issues on the PSII controller….using the official clip for same. I’ve done this both with six Duracells and with the 3s LiPoly.

 

[flyingeagle]

So what would I purchase for a LiPo battery that would be good for the Estes launch controller? What about the kind of wire harness with the plug ins. Last question if I purchase these LiPo batteries what would I get for a compatible charger?

 

[Spitfire222]

So what would I purchase for a LiPo battery that would be good for the Estes launch controller? What about the kind of wire harness with the plug ins. Last question if I purchase these LiPo batteries what would I get for a compatible charger?

With all due respect, you are re-asking the same question as has been posed in this thread and already answered extensively. Please take the time and tiny bit of effort to go back to page 1 of this thread and read the responses and the links that have already bee posted. You will find all of the information you need. Reply #4 has even more similar threads with more information.

 

[flyingeagle]

I read the post and was a little confused. I seen Amazon has a three wire harness Thai I’m assuming one end gets plugged in to the controller but not to sure what the other two ends are for. I know with batteries you need the right charger for them that’s compatible. I guess asking before I purchase these things I need on Amazon is a big NONO in here without being told make a little effort and look at the previous posts. This why I stayed with model railroading. Totally different people personalities in there. I bet you couldn’t figure out the wiring for DCC?

 

[kuririn]

I read the post and was a little confused. I seen Amazon has a three wire harness Thai I’m assuming one end gets plugged in to the controller but not to sure what the other two ends are for. I know with batteries you need the right charger for them that’s compatible. I guess asking before I purchase these things I need on Amazon is a big NONO in here without being told make a little effort and look at the previous posts. This why I stayed with model railroading. Totally different people personalities in there. I bet you couldn’t figure out the wiring for DCC?

The three wires are hooked up to a JST connector. The connector plugs into a socket in the battery compartment of the PS II controller. So one end, not three.
No one is being short with you. The answers to your questions are in the previous posts.
Why repeat the answers if they're already there?

 

[Titan II]

With all due respect, you are re-asking the same question as has been posed in this thread and already answered extensively. Please take the time and tiny bit of effort to go back to page 1 of this thread and read the responses and the links that have already bee posted. You will find all of the information you need. Reply #4 has even more similar threads with more information.

He does that, then gets nasty when it is pointed out, like in post 43 above. This is from a prior thread.

You asked this question before in post 57 and there were responses in posts 58 and 61. Opinion shopping?

Yes opinion shopping. If a doctor tells you that you need a major surgery and may never walk again, are you going for a second opinion? If no well good luck with that. My apologies to everyone else here for asking to many questions. I will step down and let the arrogant people have the site.

 

[flyingeagle]

Being I’m in cancers remission one thing is I don’t need the nastiness. If I should die I will come back and haunt you

 

[kjhambrick]

I have fired Copperheads with no issues on the PSII controller….using the official clip for same. I’ve done this both with six Duracells and with the 3s LiPoly.

Thanks @BEC.

Waiting for the household to wake up and climb in the truck to head to Belton Lake, so ...

I just now verified that the PSII Controller with six oldish, already on-hand, Duracell Alkaline batteries can fire a 25-year-old copperhead prepared using the cigarette lighter method to separate the two foil leads from the center insulator.

It can also fire an Estes Pro Series II Sonic ignitor and of course an Estes BP Solar Ignitor.

I've got 'a zillion' old copperheads and Solar ignitors in a baggie in my range box so NBD, but boy-howdy I hated to waste that brand-new Estes Sonic Ignitor !

But better to know now than out on the field !

I'll track the number of launches and failures per set of batteries and maybe upgrade later to a 3S LiPo but this should work for now.

Three 'launches' so far

Thanks again Bernard !

-- kjh

 

[BEC]

Thanks @BEC.

Waiting for the household to wake up and climb in the truck to head to Belton Lake, so ...

I just now verified that the PSII Controller with six oldish, already on-hand, Duracell Alkaline batteries can fire a 25-year-old copperhead prepared using the cigarette lighter method to separate the two foil leads from the center insulator.

It can also fire an Estes Pro Series II Sonic ignitor and of course an Estes BP Solar Ignitor.

I've got 'a zillion' old copperheads and Solar ignitors in a baggie in my range box so NBD, but boy-howdy I hated to waste that brand-new Estes Sonic Ignitor !

But better to know now than out on the field !

I'll track the number of launches and failures per set of batteries and maybe upgrade later to a 3S LiPo but this should work for now.

Three 'launches' so far

Thanks again Bernard !

-- kjh

You’re welcome. The Sonic igniters were designed to work on the PSII controller….which is why sometimes on 12V club systems and used in less-than-quick-lighting propellants (I’m looking at you D10Ws) they burn without getting the motor lit.

Have fun.

 

[RocketSquirrel]

My first post on TRF...

I purchased an Estes Pro Series II launch controller and wanted to run LiPo batteries in it rather than C cell batteries. There isn't a lot of information about doing this and I had to do a bit of research over the course of a few hours. I wanted to share my findings in case anyone is looking for the same information down the road.

I determined that I needed a battery pack with a JST connector and 3S (3 cell) LiPo batteries to work. I found these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5GV2D4K - it is a two pack for $30. I charged them and tested them in the launch controller. All works exactly as expected. They fit perfectly in the C cell compartment and the battery contact springs hold it perfectly in place. In order to charge the packs I used an old RC car charger that is built for LiPo batteries and got a Dean's female to JST female adapter on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSM9KNZ - I charged them at 1 amp over the course of about 30 minutes.

I've attached a picture of the battery pack in the launcher's battery compartment. It's a perfect fit.

I recently got this exact battery for mine and everything seemed to work fine but i think i held the button down too long waiting for the ignitor to do its job, and the controller started to smoke and it lost continuity and ready lights. So i fried it... idk i blame myself for holding it down too long (maybe 6 seconds?) It was an old copperhead ignitor and a composite from 1989 lol it didnt want to light

 

[SolarYellow]

I’d be interested in the tear down and seeing where the magic smoke leaked out.

 

[kjhambrick]

I recently got this exact battery for mine and everything seemed to work fine but i think i held the button down too long waiting for the ignitor to do its job, and the controller started to smoke and it lost continuity and ready lights. So i fried it... idk i blame myself for holding it down too long (maybe 6 seconds?) It was an old copperhead ignitor and a composite from 1989 lol it didnt want to light

I am curious @RocketSquirrel ...

What method did you use to connect the clips to the copperhead ?

And I wonder if a 3S LiPo in the Estes Pro Series II needs a fuse in case of a dead short and finger linger ?

-- kjh

 

[RocketSquirrel]

I am curious @RocketSquirrel ...

What method did you use to connect the clips to the copperhead ?

And I wonder if a 3S LiPo in the Estes Pro Series II needs a fuse in case of a dead short and finger linger ?

-- kjh

I clamped the wire with negative and positive but had thick tape blocking one from reaching the other. I basically folded two rectangles of electronic tape and put them on either side making sure each clip only connected to one side.

 

[kjhambrick]

I clamped the wire with negative and positive but had thick tape blocking one from reaching the other. I basically folded two rectangles of electronic tape and put them on either side making sure each clip only connected to one side.

Sorry, no help here but I wonder if the two copperhead foils were shorted along the edges ?

And I am thinking if I ever do retro-fit a 3S LiPo in the PS II I will include a series fuse ...

But then again, now that Aerotech has announced their new iLaunch Wireless Launch Controller, I'll probably stick with 6 C-Cells and bide my time until I can justify upgrading a new PS II with the new AT iLaunch System ...

-- kjh

 

[Rocketclar]

While I always took a lot of grief for using copperheads at our club's launches, I did have quite a bit of success with them. One has to be careful not to puncture them since some clips have teeth that can. I used 2 small cardboard tubes (from ignitor head protectors) on one side of each clip. Worked for me.

 

[Art Upton]

I’d be interested in the tear down and seeing where the magic smoke leaked out.

The Battery pack BMS system under the plastic wrap. Lucky no fire.

 

[BEC]

The circuitry inside the PSII controller is not that heavy-duty. It's entirely conceivable to me that either a board trace or some of the actual point-to-point wiring could fail if you shorted an 1100 mAh battery across it.

An 1100 mAh battery for flying models won't have a protection circuit in it — or at least none of the batteries I have used since LiPolys first came to RC ~20 years ago now (!!) have them — including recent purchases. Such a thing that could pass the rated current (in this case 35x1.1A or 38.5A) would be rather unwieldy.

There are several things in the circuit path inside the PSII controller that would likely not stand 6 seconds of 35A of current.

That said, I, too would love to see what actually failed. The thing is, one needs a triangle-shaped screwdriver to open up the controller. Not everyone has those readily to hand....

On the other hand, that little orange JST connector itself is only good for 2-3A continuous. At least that could be checked by just opening the battery door.

 

[SolarYellow]

Maybe it's time for me to finally buy this set.

https://www.harborfreight.com/security-bit-set-with-case-100-piece-68457.html

 

[BEC]

Maybe, but it doesn't have what you need to get into the PSII controller. I think I got the set of triangle bits I have from Amazon some time ago....

 

[SolarYellow]

You're right. I thought it was triangles there at the back, but it was just Robertsons. I blame Canada.

 

[BEC]

I just checked my order history. Unsurprisingly, Amazon doesn't even have a page for the ones I got anymore (ordered in March of 2018). But this is essentially the same: https://www.amazon.com/Fongmore-Shank-Magnetic-Triangle-Screwdriver/dp/B0B5GSMPV7/