Hypothetical design and altitude competition - Brain teaser

[CrocketRocket]

This is a really interesting idea to me! I don't have anything to add other than I am enjoying reading the responses (entries?) and will have to see if I can come up with something as well! Thank You for posting this "brain teaser"!

Sandeja1,

Absolutely, send in a design. I am curious to see other people's solutions. Ghostfather put in an impressive high performance solution, but remember you don't have to beat Ghostfather. You just have to beat the other 10 rockets.

So it's definitely a "What would you do?" type question, with no single right answer.

 

[Neutronium95]

I'm fond of very optimized designs that aim for extreme altitude with minimal impulse. I'm not sure about the exact mass for the electronics, but an Estes Wizard with a D2.3 motor and a Telemini for deployment should be able to win the altitude competition.

 

[Nytrunner]

Here are photos of the rockets you'll be up competing against.

Youtube props?

 

[CrocketRocket]

I'm fond of very optimized designs that aim for extreme altitude with minimal impulse. I'm not sure about the exact mass for the electronics, but an Estes Wizard with a D2.3 motor and a Telemini for deployment should be able to win the altitude competition.

Yes! That's what's so ironic about the whole thing. When I saw these altitude results, I told my wife the contestants worked WAY too hard and inefficiently. A standard Wizard or Yankee (well built) with a C6-5, probably could've won 3rd place! I felt there had to be an easy way solution . . . a David vs Goliath solution.

Thanks.

 

[CrocketRocket]

Youtube props?

Yes exactly.

Two "Dude Perfect" rocket battles from Youtube. Those altitude battles sure seemed like a lot of effort, yet the rockets didn't really go that high. There had to be a better way. I'm sure you guys know better ways.

 

[Nytrunner]

Hold up, you're basing this whole thing on the results of Dude perfect's rocket battles?

That's hilarious for a few reasons
-This was in no way a real competition
-They didn't build the rockets themselves (A rocket vendor provided/built them)
-The rockets were built to look cool and entertain, not to efficiently reach a high altitude

Taking that into account, its not difficult to exceed their altitudes. A Magician on an E12 with a CHAD staged boost motor would get on up there.

 

[CrocketRocket]

You don't think they built those rockets? They didn't seem too well put together. Therefore, that's why they flew so poorly.

Those guys didn't seem too rocket savvy.

I agree, the rockets weren't setup for high altitude. I think they each went to the store, or online, and bought the rocket that they thought "looked cool" and just assumed they would win.

Some people roll like like. No research. Just assuming their rocket will fly high, because "Hey, its a rocket, and looks cool."

 

[CrocketRocket]

typo: "Roll like that"

I was shocked their rockets were flying so low.

I thought for sure, simple off the shelf, ULTRA common basic components could win. Easy stuff to find at Hobby Lobby or any local hobby store. For example: Estes Alpha powered by an 24mm Estes E engine. Rounded fins.(Somehow place the Estes Altimeter up in the nosecone? Why Estes Altimeter . . . just because that's the one I already have). A quick Open Rocket sketch sims out to: 2493 feet. Technically a win, but just barely. Too close to rely on that as a solution.

Then I tried more specialized E6 and F10 Engines from Apogee, and those pushed me up over 3,000 feet. But I knew serious rocket hobbists would have better solutions.

 

[CrocketRocket]

I think that was them trying.

 

[Nytrunner]

You don't think they built those rockets? They didn't seem too well put together. Therefore, that's why they flew so poorly.

I know for a fact it wasn't them

There's a thread about both those videos on this forum. Various experienced rocketeers supported that production, and a long established vendor supplied and assembled the high power rockets (maybe the low powers too)

Example, Golden bullet was intentionally blown with a pyrotechnic.

Those guys didn't seem too rocket savvy.

You're 100% correct there

 

[CrocketRocket]

Hold up, you're basing this whole thing on the results of Dude perfect's rocket battles?

That's hilarious for a few reasons
-This was in no way a real competition
-They didn't build the rockets themselves (A rocket vendor provided/built them)
-The rockets were built to look cool and entertain, not to efficiently reach a high altitude

Taking that into account, its not difficult to exceed their altitudes. A Magician on an E12 with a CHAD staged boost motor would get on up there.

Nytrunner,

I think you found the most efficient solution! You may have the simplest solution. The Magician's off the shelf. Already has a payload bay. It's long enough to stably handle the CHAD staged boost. = That's a winner right there for simplicity!

Thank you.

 

[CrocketRocket]

I know for a fact it wasn't them

There's a thread about both those videos on this forum. Various experienced rocketeers supported that production, and a long established vendor supplied and assembled the high power rockets (maybe the low powers too)

Example, Golden bullet was intentionally blown with a pyrotechnic.



You're 100% correct there

That's a shame, that it was faked.

Now it makes sense. I couldn't believe one of them didn't just build a Wizard . . . and do better.

I'm going to have to look in this forum for that thread. Thanks for the heads up.

Merry Christmas. Joke's on me.

 

[Nytrunner]

That's a shame, that it was faked.

Eh, that's youtube for you sometimes

Use the search feature for dude perfect, it should turn up the right threads

 

[Neutronium95]

It's a lot better than some other rocketry videos on Youtube. IIRC the only safety violation they had was catching the rockets, which is the channel's whole schtick. There are tons of videos out there of people making sugar motors with bad techniques, materials, and insufficient safety precautions.

 

[ghostfather]

Based on the snooping you've done . . . 3 competitors have built their rockets shabbily, and will probably suffer catos. Other competitors purchased large impressive looking rockets but have unknowingly mismatched them with weak engines.

Now it all falls into place, based on a youtube film. I thought the premise of the competition, with 10 other guys, was a bit strange, but I took the other requirements seriously and just ignored the competition. Max G impulse, Estes kit, $100 budget w/o electronics, big field /w high ceiling - 'nuff for me.

 

[Ez2cDave]

AEROTECH F25W staged to an AEROTECH F25W with a "coast-delay" to remain sub-transonic ( below 950 ft/sec ) minimum diameter, optimum weight, FULL 160 Nt-Sec. . . . Altimeter deployment w/ Streamer.

Dave F,

 

[CrocketRocket]

AEROTECH F25W staged to an AEROTECH F25W with a "coast-delay" to remain sub-transonic ( below 950 ft/sec ) minimum diameter, optimum weight, FULL 160 Nt-Sec. . . . Altimeter deployment w/ Streamer.

Dave F,

I'll look into the Aerotech F25W engine.

Thanks for the suggestion.