Hydro-electric power (and other non-fossil fuel generation methods) discussion

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Was not aware how many PETA members we had here. :)

When are you guys going to post the statistics on animals killed by fossil fuels? Or is that okay?
When someone can't promote their own industry anymore:
they try smearing others :angiefavorite:

or put on a disguise šŸ„ø (aka virtue signaling).

shrug.png
 
Are these energy efficient stoves and the pellets used therein made in an energy efficient manner, or is this yet another example of robbing Peter to pay Paul?
Wood stove pellets are mainly made from waste sawdust and wood chips from milling timber for building products. The source product is already there; the factories just have to mill them into pellets.

Log wood stoves are great where the density of wood stove users is suitable for the total number of trees and their regrowth time. In places with higher population densities (eg Indian subcontinent, parts of Africa) use of wood for fuel has meant massive deforestation.
 
Wood stove pellets are mainly made from waste sawdust and wood chips from milling timber for building products. The source product is already there; the factories just have to mill them into pellets.

Log wood stoves are great where the density of wood stove users is suitable for the total number of trees and their regrowth time. In places with higher population densities (eg Indian subcontinent, parts of Africa) use of wood for fuel has meant massive deforestation.
The milling into pellets is nothing more than high pressure extrusion, as the material is force through the extruder the natural lignon bonds it into a dense, solid (though breakable) pellet, a rotating striker/cutter standardizes the length of the pellet. I entertained the thought at one point of building one which is easier than people think. Adiy extruder is not as good as a commercial machine but it makes a useable pellet.
 
The milling into pellets is nothing more than high pressure extrusion, as the material is force through the extruder the natural lignon bonds it into a dense, solid (though breakable) pellet, a rotating striker/cutter standardizes the length of the pellet. I entertained the thought at one point of building one which is easier than people think. Adiy extruder is not as good as a commercial machine but it makes a useable pellet.
I figured it wasn't too hard, but wasn't sure. Years and years ago, I saw a plant in Pakistan that was turning rice hulls into fire logs. If they really got that running, it probably did more to prevent local deforestation than any major government program.

And I realized I didn't say above that another advantage of the pellet stoves is that they tend to burn a lot cleaner (lower particulates) than log stoves.
 
A friend of mine built a new lake home to replace the old cabin that his Dad on the property. I helped him remove old pine paneling, from the 1960's with unique profiles no longer available, and install it in the new house. It turned out good and is a homage to his Dad who was also a good friend of mine.

Since my friend's wife is allergic to wood smoke the recently new wood stove in the cabin was given to me. It burns cleaner, takes larger & more firewood that will last all night unlike my current stove, so over all more efficient. And every time I use it I will remember his Dad.

PS. His Dad died at at age 94 and cut & split firewood until he was 92. Pretty amazing.
 
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Years ago, a fellow shooter in our muzzleloading club told me about modifying an old dutch oven to burn pellets inside of a wood stove. I wish I could share the details, but I'm not sure I ever got more than it requiring wrecking a dutch oven by drilling holes in it.
Considering how pellet smokers work, I can see it having potential
 
I figured it wasn't too hard, but wasn't sure. Years and years ago, I saw a plant in Pakistan that was turning rice hulls into fire logs. If they really got that running, it probably did more to prevent local deforestation than any major government program.

And I realized I didn't say above that another advantage of the pellet stoves is that they tend to burn a lot cleaner (lower particulates) than log stoves.
In principle it's not that hard. And, if you're making them for personal use, that's probably all there us to it. But I once had a client that manufactured gas fireplaces and pellet stoves. They had ccess to a source od sawdust abd spent a couple years trying to get certified to produce their own brand of wood pellets and could not get passed the testing required by the regulation of commercial wood pellets.

Apparently, there are requirements for density, moisture content, and BTUs produced per kilogram (or some such measurement) and their engineers and staff had been unable to discover the magic formula of hardwoods and softwood that would meet all the requirements of the regulation.
 
This just popped up on my feed: ...
Simply saying sensational words like "collapse of sustainable technology X" is a hint there's non-sustainable interests behind the article. I wouldn't bother clicking until they have a decent title.

Industry is very strong:

https://www.windpowermonthly.com/https://cleantechnica.com/2023/06/16/australian-wind-farms-set-1st-record-in-2023/https://www.iea.org/energy-system/renewables/windhttps://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/new-prize-to-propel-wind-turbine-materials-recycling.html
 
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It's all about the money. End all subsidies to any form of man-made energy production and the most efficient and effective would rise to the top. It's interesting how some of the biggest issues with different forms of energy are social and not mechanical.
 
It's all about the money. End all subsidies to any form of man-made energy production and the most efficient and effective would rise to the top. It's interesting how some of the biggest issues with different forms of energy are social and not mechanical.
That would result in not even having a Navy to protect shipping lanes.
 
That's ridiculous on the surface and malicious in response.
So this isnā€™t exactly what @Funkworks was saying, but one of the subsidies the US government provides to the oil industry is safe passage of oil tankers out of the Middle East. Very few of those are US flagged, so our only interest is keeping commerce moving. If we stopped that subsidy, we could shut down half a dozen major bases in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.
 
That's actually a subsidy to civilization.
But the premise was to remove all government subsidies to energy production and use and let the free market compete on an absolutely level playing field. Otherwise, youā€™re picking winner and losers since sunlight doesnā€™t need to be defended in transit.
 
But the premise was to remove all government subsidies to energy production and use and let the free market compete on an absolutely level playing field. Otherwise, youā€™re picking winner and losers since sunlight doesnā€™t need to be defended in transit.
You cannot manufacture solar panels without the free flow of oil. So solar wouldn't even be in the free market game. And saying the military being used to keep the free market free as an oil subsidy is a stretch, even for you.
 
So this isnā€™t exactly what @Funkworks was saying, but one of the subsidies the US government provides to the oil industry is safe passage of oil tankers out of the Middle East. Very few of those are US flagged, so our only interest is keeping commerce moving. If we stopped that subsidy, we could shut down half a dozen major bases in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.
No, there is a huge difference between national defense and commercial subsidies. In reality, we are not protecting oil tankers, we are protecting the economies of many countries that rely on us and those tankers. That said and to your point, we have plenty of oil right here in the good ol USA to not rely on those tankers. But for some reason, we can't seem to be allowed to extract said oil... We sure could shut down some of those bases but I'd venture to say the stability in the region would start to collapse and we are running out of tall buildings.

Note: There's not really "half a dozen major bases" in the Gulf states. There are really just 3. The other 3-4 may have a US presence but not a US base.
 
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That would result in not even having a Navy to protect shipping lanes.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution empowers Congress ā€œto provide and maintain a navyā€. It further grants Congress the authority ā€œto define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high seas and offenses against the Law of Nationsā€.

Protecting shipping lanes is a constitutionally granted authority and responsibility of the federal government, not a subsidy for any particular industry.
 
You cannot manufacture solar panels without the free flow of oil. So solar wouldn't even be in the free market game. And saying the military being used to keep the free market free as an oil subsidy is a stretch, even for you.
If solar panels need petroleum, theyā€™d buy it on the open and unsubsidized market like everyone else. Surely a free market devotee such as yourself can recognize that.

Iā€™ll return to the topic of the military and other externalities in more detail when I have more time.
 
That said and to your point, we have plenty of oil right here in the good ol USA to not rely on those tankers. But for some reason, we can't seem to be allowed to extract said oil...
And yet somehow, despite not being allowed to extract that oil, US oil production will hit a record in oil production this year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...rise-record-1276-mln-bpd-2023-eia-2023-08-08/
(And yes, I haven't gotten back to the externalities that I intended to, but other work and life keep getting in the way of arguing on the internet. Go figure. :D )
 
So I guess you didn't learn anything from my post.
I didnā€™t read beyond ā€œcollapseā€, because I know very well there is no collapse.

And just a reminder that itā€™s perfectly possible to discuss energy for years and years without mentioning government and subsidies, but I didnā€™t bring up this thread so no argument is on me.

From what Iā€™ve seen, reducing dependency on FF is a good idea, and exploring the alternatives is a great deal of fun, so there is little point in trying to sell me O&G. Looking for ways to minimize use of O&G is a hobby of its own.
šŸ––
 
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That's ridiculous on the surface and malicious in response.
Adjusting spending and income to and from various subsets of the population is not malicious, itā€™s what governments do. Itā€™s like a never-ending game of whac-a-mole šŸ˜†

You cannot manufacture solar panels without the free flow of oil. So solar wouldn't even be in the free market game. And saying the military being used to keep the free market free as an oil subsidy is a stretch, even for you.
Whether we have 100 years worth of oil left, or a 1000, I'd say we're better off using it to build renewable sources like hydro, solar and wind, than burning it outright. We'll last longer. And the longer we can make the reserves last, the more time trees and such will have to absorb it. Preventing shocks to the system makes the system more predictable and last longer.

For anyone wishing to blast subsidies, enjoy:

"Globally, fossil fuel subsidies were $5.9 trillion in 2020 or about 6.8 percent of GDP, and are expected to rise to 7.4 percent of GDP in 2025."

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...ountry-Update-of-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-466004
Just donā€™t kid yourself into thinking O&G is a market free of gvt interference.
 
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