Hobby-sized Aerospike Rocket Engine?

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Citation needed for:
- no aerospike has ever been tested above 30k ft
- 100k ft 2nd stage ignitions require substantially more dangerous ignition materials
 
Citation needed for:
- no aerospike has ever been tested above 30k ft
- 100k ft 2nd stage ignitions require substantially more dangerous ignition materials

Agreed. I have a hard time believing and aero spike has not been test above 30k ft. It might well have been done, but that does not correlate to it being information that is disseminated.

The second point does not make much sense either. You need to keep the engine pressurized- burst disk or the like should handle that.
 
Agreed. I have a hard time believing and aero spike has not been test above 30k ft. It might well have been done, but that does not correlate to it being information that is disseminated.

The second point does not make much sense either. You need to keep the engine pressurized- burst disk or the like should handle that.

Yeah, many people think that high altitude ignition requires accepting more risk, but the people who actually do it don’t accept that premise. They figure out how to do it safely. There are many posts by Kip Daugirdas, Jim Jarvis, and Crazy Jim that present smarter ways.
Perpetuating the copper thermite myth is irresponsible.
 
As some others on this thread pointed out the real performance value of an aerospike nozzle is the use going from sea level to high altitude. A regular bell nozzle or convergent-divergent nozzle has a physically set expansion area-ratio and the optimum performance for that nozzle is when the exit pressure is equal to the ambient back pressure for that given altitude. In essence the aerospike nozzle is missing the outside wall and the external supersonic flow (that is not against any wall) self adjusts to the local ambient pressure, while maintaining a high pressure (but decreasing as the exhaust leaves the aft end of the spike) on the inner wall. This self-adjusting flow exists at all altitudes not just one altitude like the regular convergent-divergent nozzle. If the rocket does appreciably change altitude during the motor burn, no significant performance increase will be observed.

On a different issue I am not sure that a cylindrical (annular, axisymmetric flow) aerospike is going to due as well as a linear (2-D planar flow) aerospike.
 
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Mark, that is a nice summary. If the Black Sky rocket had a short burn-time, then there would be no appreciable increase in performance.

From 1-D compressible gas dynamics it is well known that above the critical pressure ratio there will be sonic flow at the throat. Roughly, the pressure at the throat is about half the chamber pressure (it depends upon the propellant, specific heat ratio, etc.). If the nozzle has only a throat (for example the old model Jetex motors with just a hole in the aft end of the case), all the opportunity for using the high pressure exhaust gas to produce thrust is lost. Usually, the increase in thrust for the divergent part of the nozzle is defined by the thrust coefficient for which there is a theoretical formula derived from 1-D compressible gas dynamics. So, both the bell nozzle and the aerospike have a throat, but how the thrust is extracted from the geometry of the nozzle is different in the supersonic expansion of the gas flow. I tend to think that a linear spike might do better than the cylindrical (or annular) spike, because there is more nozzle surface area for a given amount flow to extract thrust from the high pressure gas. I knew someone about 10 or 15 years ago that made some CFD runs for the cylindrical spike geometry and he told me that he was not seeing the performance increases that everyone was expecting.
 
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- 100k ft 2nd stage ignitions require substantially more dangerous ignition materials

Judging by the experience of the incidents at Fireballs 27. Actually, I would prefer any student teams to have professional mentors on site overseeing the launch preparations during high power flights.

Bob Clark
 
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Agreed. I have a hard time believing and aero spike has not been test above 30k ft. It might well have been done, but that does not correlate to it being information that is disseminated.
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I wouldn’t have access to top secret research. But I know of three flight tests of aerospikes rocket nozzles. The Dryden test mentioned here went to about 26,000 feet. There was a a test by Garvey Aerospace that went to a few thousand feet. And there was a test by NASA for the VentureStar/X-33 SSTO program that attached an aerospike to a SR-71 called the LASRE test. This also only went to about 30,000 feet.

Bob Clark
 
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Judging by the experience of the incidents at Fireballs 27. Actually, I would prefer any student teams to have professional mentors on site overseeing the launch preparations during high power flights.

Bob Clark
Previously the word " requires " was used. Staging does not " require " less-stable admixtures or dangerous procedures. There are many techniques which are substantially less risky.

I am aware of the events in question, as are most others. I am not aware of anyone who would prefer less professionalism and mentorship of student teams.
 
I wouldn’t have access to top secret research. But I know of three flight tests of aerospikes rocket nozzles. The Dryden test mentioned here went to about 26,000 feet. There was a a test by Garvey Aerospace that went to a few thousand feet. And there was a test by NASA for the VentureStar/X-33 SSTO program that attached an aerospike to a SR-71 called the LASRE test. This also only went to about 30,000 feet.

Bob Clark


A picture from my office!

x33.jpg
 
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