Help Bunny's Electrician!!

[GuyNoir]

Ok, guys, more help needed on the workshop.

When we did the electrical walk-through about 10 days ago, the electrician said "if you can tell me where your benches will be, I'll hang the lights to give you perfect lighting". This is an offer too good to pass up, particularly since about a million of you said "get more lights!!!".

Attached is a PDF of a layout I came up with. After accounting for the thickness of the foundation wall, the workshop is basically 15 x 26. The basic story is that the most windows will be in the corner where the workbenches are. I do have to build those workbenches, but as discussed in previous threads, whacking those out of 2x4 and some countertop materials (or masonite, or plywood, or something else!) isn't that hard.

Look over the layout, see if you think it makes sense, and offer suggestions. We're a fair amount of time away from needing to hang the lights (due to a variety of details, like the &#*&$(& electric company hasn't gotten power onto the property yet!!!!!), but any feedback, etc. appreciated!

Your reward will be if you can get here, we'll make sure you know when the housewarming party is!!!

 

[sandman]

My suggestion would be;

First, all the wall outlets are SWITCHED!
for safety, when you leave they are OFF!
Plug strips located where power tools, soldering irons, etc will be most used.

OK, one or two not switched for battery charging.

If you have a ceiling, get 4 tube recessed flourescent for the whole shop three units total with one in the center...this is "general lighting".

Task lighting can be approached in a number of ways but all incandescent! Preferably quartz.
track lighting
goosneck lights (with magnifier lense!)
recessed ball/socket fixtures (depending on your ceiling material)
undercounter lights are best.
Seperately switched is nice

The object is to light the work area (workbench) NOT your back.

BTW...lighing is what I do!

 

[sunward]

You didn't say what equipment is going in and where the windows and doors are exactly, so it is hard to give advice for the layout.

As for the windows over the workbench, I may reconsider, as uneven sunlight or direct at certain times of the day may be annoying. You also have a lot of unused space in the bottom of the workshop. I may consider putting in a larger table where you have the 30x60 old table now listed. Even 48x96.

As for flourescent, do not install where you have power tools operating.

I take it you are putting in a separate circuit panel in the workshop?

Will you need 220volts ( heating or equipment ) in the future? If so, consider wiring now.

 

[Pat Butler]

Random thoughts---

Looks like you are going to have computer equipment in the shop. You might want to consider wiring a few outlets as isolated grounded outlets. Electricians argue about the benefits of iso-grounds, but it is generally assumed to reduce electrical noise from other devices (power tools) on the same branch circuit.

It requires those specials orange outlets and the installation of separate ground wires to those outlets. I used 12/3 w/ground wire for my office, and the 3rd wire which is insulated actually becomes the ground wire. The real ground wire which is bare just got cut off. The insulation keeps it from contacting the electrical box and defeating the purpose of keeping it isolated.

By all means check with your electrician (dont' trust my advice!) Iso-grounded outlets run to a few outlets in a basement should barely add any additional cost. Just using a higher grade wire (maybe 12/3 versus 12/2) and the purchase of the duplex outlets themselves ($20) should be all that is required.

I'm assuming that any lighting will be of the newer type of flourescent lighting with the electrical ballast that comes on instantly and no longer flickers.

If you use any sort of spot lighting (like for task lighting) then be aware of how it might reflect off your computer monitor. Recessed lighting has a habit of doing that.

Have you considered a charging center where you group some duplex outlets together somewhere so you can charge up all of your electrical devices in one area?

If you are doing a lot of telcom type wiring then you may want to purchase a copy of the latest TIA standard. It has some pretty good guidelines as to how to wire with the considering for future expansion. Among othe things, it gives recommended distances between low voltage telco type wiring and high voltage electrical service. It can make the difference between having a crummy internet connection if you are networking your computers together and some of your low voltage wiring gets too close to the high voltage stuff. Makes it safer too if the recommended distances are adhered to.

The common practice with Cat5 type wiring is the 'home run' method where every port has its own wire going all the way back to the panel. That means A LOT of wire is run- basically maybe 6 to 8 wires in each box. Cat5 wiring, if done right, can carry your telephone, alarm system, and computer networking. Check out the Leviton systems at Home Depot. Leviton has excellent support and a very comprehensive website.

 

[powderburner]

Where is your half-fridge going to be? Coffee maker? Microwave? TV set? (hey, I'm SERIOUS)

If you plug a radio/boombox/stereo into an outlet, will you still have enough local boxes open for other stuff?

It is probably overkill, but I would put in more boxes. Even if you know you won't use 25% of them at any one time, it's just plain nice to be able to plug in without extension cords wherever you are. And right now is your chance to put in the boxes the 'right' way, set in the walls while you are still under construction. Boxes cost what, about a buck? Duplex outlets another what, 50 cents each? Cover plate another buck? It is so cheap to add boxes that it's silly not to. The coax is already going to run around the walls, just break in with a few more boxes. OK, so more boxes probably means another circuit (per most codes), so maybe you have 20 bucks for another breaker.

Sandman is right about the lighting, you don't want all of it installed in the ceiling. Whatever fluorescent fixtures you *do* put in the ceiling, make the electrical connections by adding a plug to the leads from the light, and place a box in the ceiling to plug into. That way, when it's time to replace the lights/ballast/unit, it is a much more simple thing to pop out the old light fixture and plug in a new one. (It has been my experience that the cheapo fluorescent two-bulb and four-bulb lights that are sold in most home improvement stores are good for about 10 years, depending on usage, and then need replacement.)

If your walls are still open (not sheet-rocked yet?), do you want to put in wiring for any future burglar alarm system? What about wiring for fire detectors and alarms?

 

[LFLekx]

Originally posted by Pat Butler
want to consider wiring a few outlets as isolated grounded outlets. Electricians argue about the benefits of iso-grounds, but it is generally assumed to reduce electrical noise from other devices (power tools) on the same branch circuit.

I've installed isolated-ground receptacles in the past, and they're not as beneficial as you may believe.

First off - unless you run a cable for each receptacle back to your panel, you have to make joints in the ground wire. This is a no-no in general, and a good way to lose your grounding completely... should the joint come loose or be disconnected.

Second - your panel will have to be modified to use isolated-grounding. A separate ground-bar, totally isolated from the panel itself, must be installed and grounded to the 'main' ground. (water-pipe or grounding-plate...) Most people don't like this added expense, so most setups that have 'isolated-ground' receptacles are typically case-grounded at the panel *anyway*.


If you want to protect your computer from noise and voltage spikes, I'd suggest a UPS power supply instead.

Since this is a workshop - here are a few suggestions...

- Each receptacle should have a separate circuit... two circuits and a 'split' receptacle would be ideal. Power-tools are power-eaters.

- Add a few more receptacles to each workbench... you'll be surprised at how quickly you'll add power-strips.

- Use ground-fault receptacles or breakers. If your tools become damaged, they'll trip out before regular breakers do... saving you from a bad shock.

- If you put a computer in the same room, protect it from dust and debris. Either install a vacuum system to contain the dust, or build a reasonably-sealed enclosure for the computer.

The common practice with Cat5 type wiring is the 'home run' method where every port has its own wire going all the way back to the panel.

Actually... that's the ONLY way to run Cat5 cable. Each computer gets its' own cable, run back to a router/switch/patchpanel.

Co-ax cables can go from one computer to the next... but Cat5 can't.

 

[bobkrech]

1.) You can't have too much light in a shop. If you don't mind paying for the electricity, I would put (6) 2'x4' 2 40w fluorescent bulb Troffer fixtures in a drop ceiling with the following grid pattern: 3', 4' x 5, 3' = 26' long dimension; 1.5', 2' x 6, 1.5' = 15' on the short dimension. The fixures would be positioned in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th 4' spots on the 26' length, and on the 2nd and 5th 2' spots on the 15' length. Put 3 wall switches at each room entrance and gang switch pairs on the short dimension. This will give you uniformly bright illumination in the shop.

2.) Install (3) 24' tracks running on the long dimension down the room center and 1.5' off the wall. You can position (and reposition) spot, down and flood lights as required from workbench lighting obviating the need for rewiring should you rearrange the layout.

3.) Run a wiring raceway around the walls at 4 ft height. Run (2) 20 amp circuits around the raceway. Done properly, you can put (2) 120 volt and (1) 240 volt outlets adjecent anywhere in the room by placing a duplex outlet anywhere and if you break the jumper between the socket and wire one of the hots to each side, each outlet has 2 independent 20 amp circuits. If you jumper off each side to a 240 volt outlet, you have that capability as well. That suould be plenty for a shot that you are using by yourself, but very flexible for upgrading. While your at it, you can easily run a grounding wire around the raceway as well. Using a raceway it's easy to add more circuits as required without major expense or digging up the wall.

4.) Go wireless. Don't waste money wiring for a network. Standards change every few years, and currently a G wireless route is going for $30, as is a USB G computer hookup if it wasn't included in your computer. Hard wiring will cost a lot more.

Bob

 

[mike_bar]

Originally posted by sandman
[Snip] The object is to light the work area (workbench) NOT your back.

BTW...lighing is what I do!

I guess that makes you "Sandman Lite"

 

[Pat Butler]

When I had my office addition added it required a sub-panel. My electrician ended up adding a separate ground wire for the subpanel. He was careful to use one of the grounding systems exclusively for the iso-ground circuits. In my case there was no need to splice any of the grounds- they wall went right back to the panel. In some cases I had separate circuits for the top and bottom of each duplex outlet so it required running a lot of wire.

 

[doug_man_sams]

Originally posted by narprez
but any feedback, etc. appreciated!

Bunny,
Here's my shop. hope it gives you a couple of helful ideas. https://home.flash.net/~samily/shop/

Looking at your drawing, the one thought that struck me (besides "no matter where all you put outlets, you'll end up needing a couple more" ) was putting in dual duplex (ie, quad) boxes at each end of each work surface. My shop has dual 20-amp services, running in the same conduit, so that at each pair of duplex outlets, the adjacent outlets are on separate breakers. That way, if I need to plug in two high current loads, such as two big saws, they're on separates branches and won't pop the breaker.

Plus, since the two 20-amp services are on opposite phases, if it's ever necessary, any quad box can easily be converted to 220 volts.

HTH.

Doug

 

[m85476585]

Originally posted by Pat Butler
The common practice with Cat5 type wiring is the 'home run' method where every port has its own wire going all the way back to the panel. That means A LOT of wire is run- basically maybe 6 to 8 wires in each box. Cat5 wiring, if done right, can carry your telephone, alarm system, and computer networking. Check out the Leviton systems at Home Depot. Leviton has excellent support and a very comprehensive website.

Originally posted by LFLekx
Actually... that's the ONLY way to run Cat5 cable. Each computer gets its' own cable, run back to a router/switch/patchpanel.

Co-ax cables can go from one computer to the next... but Cat5 can't. [/B]

You don't need one wire per computer. You can have one cable running to a router and connect it to a switch near most of the computers. It might not be as fast if you are trying to transfer a lot of data on all of them at once, but it should be good for average use.

Originally posted by bobkrech
4.) Go wireless. Don't waste money wiring for a network. Standards change every few years, and currently a G wireless route is going for $30, as is a USB G computer hookup if it wasn't included in your computer. Hard wiring will cost a lot more.

Wireless is what is MUCH more likely to change. There is a new technology every few years. I find wired much more reliable. As my neighbors add wireless networks I don't have to upgrade mine because of interference. Wired networks aren't changing as fast as wireless. Most large networks are wired, so standard equipment will be availible for a long time. If you put in cat6 cable you will be able to use gigabit, and will probably be a long time before you need anything faster, but if you really want the best then you could put in fiber-optic, but it is very expensive.

I had a wireless network but I decided to run a wire to one of my main computers anyways (because it stopped getting a signel). Luckily there was an unused cat5 phone line in that room, so I just had to string a wire across my basement. The total cost including the cable (100 feet), some connectors, and a panel was about $30 (I installed it myself). It would have been much more expensive to upgrade my wireless network to a long-range one.

 

[Pat Butler]

I'm a big fan of wired networks too, especially if you have the option of easily running the cables before construction begins. Wireless speeds are getting faster, but a wired network is still much faster. Biggest advantage with wired is usually no connection problems due to the wiring itself. Some people like to mix wired and wireless and that's a great option if you have a laptop computer that you like to use in different rooms in the house.

 

[GuyNoir]

Originally posted by doug_man_sams
Bunny,
Here's my shop. hope it gives you a couple of helful ideas. https://home.flash.net/~samily/shop/

(a) Saw a tractor just like the one in the ad in Richmond, IN where my daughter goes to school. Former NAR Trustee (and all around great fellow) Mark Johnson owns a 1946 Ford of some sort. . .

(b) Pre painted white pegboard. Gotta remember that. . .

(c) Every other outlet will be on a different circuit; that idea came from the NIRA guys here in Chicago, but obviously it's a nationwide trend.

 

[GuyNoir]

Originally posted by Pat Butler
I'm a big fan of wired networks

Even with encryption, I think wireless isn't as secure as wired. That's why I went with it. At 100 MPS, CAT5e cable has at least an order of magnitude bandwidth than any broadband provider out here can supply.

 

[GuyNoir]

sandman, incandescent for the task lighting. Got it.

sunward,

You didn't say what equipment is going in and where the windows and doors are exactly

I posted a list of equipement earlier that ran something like this:

drill press
scroll saw
1" belt sander
vacuform machine
small compressor for airbrush
Dremel tool and speed control

I'm attaching a new PDF with the location of the windows and the door noted.

Also, folks need to know the basement will be unfinished; while we'd obviously not want to be changing stuff soon after we move in, we have that flexibility in the basement.

Relative to a larger table, if I had one, that would be great! Maybe after we've been in a year or two. . .

Pat Butler,

You might want to consider wiring a few outlets as isolated grounded outlets.

Reading about them, and then comparing the cost to how the electrical system performs here in the 1950's era house we're renting right now, I'm not sure I need them. This electrical system is the pits, and we don't seem to have any problem with our computers.

The common practice with Cat5 type wiring is the 'home run' method

That's what we're doing with phone, video and computer. Also, I downloaded the Leviton catalog. It is nice stuff....

powderburner,

Where is your half-fridge going to be? Coffee maker? Microwave? TV set? (hey, I'm SERIOUS)

Haven't sorted that out yet. I'll probably end up with a fridge, but probably not a coffee maker. I sorta like to leave the workshop for a bit and take a break sometimes. TV connections are in opposite corners of the shop; see attached PDF.

 

[GuyNoir]

For anyone interested in what the REST of the house looks like these days. . .

 

[LFLekx]

Originally posted by m85476585
You don't need one wire per computer. You can have one cable running to a router and connect it to a switch near most of the computers. It might not be as fast if you are trying to transfer a lot of data on all of them at once, but it should be good for average use.

That's not the point I was trying to make. With a ThinNet (coax) system, you run your cable from computer to computer, and you have 'taps' to connect your computer to the ring. Twisted-Pair (Cat5/5e/6) cabling can't do that. You run one cable from EACH computer to your router/switch, and you CANNOT add another computer by cutting into the cable and splicing a new connector into it.

 

[LFLekx]

Originally posted by Pat Butler
I'm a big fan of wired networks too, especially if you have the option of easily running the cables before construction begins. Wireless speeds are getting faster, but a wired network is still much faster. Biggest advantage with wired is usually no connection problems due to the wiring itself. Some people like to mix wired and wireless and that's a great option if you have a laptop computer that you like to use in different rooms in the house.

Another advantage to wired connections is security. Nobody can use your hub to tap into your computer, or use your Internet connection for their own purposes.

(I actually had a neighbour ask if I had a wireless router for my little network - I think he was hoping to use my setup to gain Internet access for his family... )