Going to try some paper model conversions. Tips?

[Rocketbuilder]

Between tomorrow and the next club launch I can attend, I have 2 months in which to build more rockets! Kits and even scratch builds can be pretty expensive, so I thought I'd convert some paper models for flight.
The models I am going to convert are this Saturn 1B and this Saturn 1 SA-5 (20th item from the top, right above the Sat 1B)
Anything I need to know about converting paper models besides the obvious? Seems like it should be pretty simple.
If anyone's converted either of these or similar models, I would love to see pictures!

 

[BobH48]

Here are a couple build threads from the TRF Archive..

Not a Saturn but it will give you an idea about converting cardstock models for flight.

Cardstock Soyuz Build

Maxus 1B

 

[AstronMike]

Between tomorrow and the next club launch I can attend, I have 2 months in which to build more rockets! Kits and even scratch builds can be pretty expensive, so I thought I'd convert some paper models for flight.
The models I am going to convert are this Saturn 1B and this Saturn 1 SA-5 (20th item from the top, right above the Sat 1B)
Anything I need to know about converting paper models besides the obvious? Seems like it should be pretty simple.
If anyone's converted either of these or similar models, I would love to see pictures!

When you arrive at tomorrows TTRA launch, you'll see me flying some cardstock/Depron based gliders, and I've posted about some of these on this Forum a ways back. You WILL like these when you see them.....

 

[gpoehlein]

The first question is: have you ever built a paper/card rocket? If not, I would try a couple of simpler builds first just to get a feel for the techniques. A really good starter is Fliskits' Midnight Express - you can download it at the Fliskits website and it is free (most paper rockets tend to be free). Another starting point is my Project Paper that you can find in the Cardstock Model section here. I've made several cardstock versions of a number of Estes parts that can be mixed and matched to build a number of classic models (such as the Alpha and Big Bertha). Be sure to download the instructions as they go over what you need to do to make the components of the rocket.

One last trick that I just started using has been promoted by several others here - white glue is thermosetting, which means you can coat both parts with a thin layer of white glue, let them dry completely, then use an iron (I use a monocote iron) to seal the edges together. This is really useful for gluing the edges of the body tube together to form the tube - it isn't messy and you can easily line up the edges and hold them in place while sealing the edge.

Oh, and be sure to use white glue (not school glue) only. White glue dries clear, unlike yellow glue. And if you use a double glue joint (coat both pieces let partially dry then apply a bit more glue to glue the pieces together) the joints will be stronger than the components themselves.

 

[SpaceAXEplorer]

I don't know how much experience you've had building high class card models, or how much you know of the 'the usual stuff;, so I'll try not be patronizing-I hope?

There are a few designers of the Saturn test variants. Lars Folmann, a pal of mine has made a couple.
https://www.classicpaperspacemodels.dk/index.htm
https://www.ninfinger.org/models/ClassicPaperSpaceModels/ClassicPaperSpaceModels.html
Some of these are of simpler construct, and offer an 'easier' chance at modification. I always build a card model a'la-original' first. It gives me a feel for how the artist/designer thinks, and a better chance at figuring out the needed mods and re-enforcements needed for flight. It also gives me a nice display model if I lose the rocket version.
Get the weight. I always use the smallest and lightest engine that will get the job done, without adding unneccesary weight. Sometimes max performance will not be the best option, especially if the model has lots of fragile parts, and the weight diffrence between similar diameter motors espcecially 18mm B and C is a lot! I try and string/spin test all my models with everything loaded. It hasn't failed me yet, while I've lost plenty using computer sims. If everything is working out with the trial flights- GO FOR BROKE!
Um...blah blah blah..?
Best of luck and please post how your doing?

Eric

 

[Rocketbuilder]

I have a fair amount of experience making paper models. As for cardstock rockets, I built a very simple Saturn 1B a while back. First time it flew great, but was not so good at the "recovery" part! The top 8 inches of the rocket were flattened into less than one inch. I rebuilt it and flew it again today, but a failure of the engine mount caused asymmetrical thrust and it powered into the ground. :cry:
But anyway, the models I posted links to are about at my skill level.

gpoehlein: I might try that thermosetting thing; it sounds like a good idea.

SpaceAXEplorer: I like that Titan X-20! Thanks for posting that link.
Smallest and lightest engine? Pfft! Everything with an 18mm MMT gets a C6, everything witha 24mm MMT gets an E9, unless it's a booster stage. So what if they're overpowered? It just makes them that much more impressive if they core sample!

 

[Montaro]

• wash you hands
• keep on hand a small towel to clear you hand constantly
• I used to apply the glue with a pencil
• use a Sharpie marker to paint the edge after cut.
• Add a cardstock layer in the top of the body use the same side of the nosecone shoulder.

Good luck, you will loveit, build a cardstock rocket is very fun !

P.D. Post a lot of Pic. the saturn 1B is on my list but 1:48 Scale

 

[SpaceAXEplorer]

From conversations I've had with Lars and a couple of other people, at least 3 people, or more, have tried to convert and fly Lars's Titan X-20 model. All have failed. That's includes me. I didn't even get close enough to try a launch. If someone has succeeded, we'd all like to know about it.
If not, That is one model someone might be a 'Rocket-Roll Hero' with.
Just putting it out there.
Eric

 

[Montaro]

From conversations I've had with Lars and a couple of other people, at least 3 people, or more, have tried to convert and fly Lars's Titan X-20 model. All have failed. That's includes me. I didn't even get close enough to try a launch. If someone has succeeded, we'd all like to know about it.
If not, That is one model someone might be a 'Rocket-Roll Hero' with.
Just putting it out there.
Eric

interesting, do you have the link ?

 

[SpaceAXEplorer]

up above in my previous post.
https://www.classicpaperspacemodels.dk/index.htm and again

 

[Montaro]

up above in my previous post.
https://www.classicpaperspacemodels.dk/index.htm and again

Did you try with Titan I or IIIC ?

I suppouse the problem you find was that the X-20 wing up the CP to high isn't it ?

 

[Rocketbuilder]

Did you try with Titan I or IIIC ?

I suppouse the problem you find was that the X-20 wing up the CP to high isn't it ?

That could be a problem. Maybe a lot of nose weight and a low-altitude rocket. Some clear fins would help, too.

 

[SpaceAXEplorer]

Did you try with Titan I or IIIC ?

I suppouse the problem you find was that the X-20 wing up the CP to high isn't it ?

Tiatan-1 X-20 sorry.

 

[Rocketbuilder]

While poking around on the internet I found this: https://georgesrockets.com/GRP/AOL/RBGliders/X20/X20_Titan2_model_drwg.GIF
The main reason I thought it was worth posting is because it shows the CG location. Once I get done with my current builds, I will definitely try this! Anyone going to beat me to it?

 

[SpaceAXEplorer]

That's George Gassaway. He's a regular here on TRF. While the model in the pic isn't a card model, there is some info there worth looking at.
I'm going to be last in liine to try a card version of that. I'm at least finishing my starfighter model first, and I've got plenty of unfinished designs to be starting a new one, at least for awhile. but if George had luck with it, maybe the info could cross over into putting Lars's or a different & new card rocket model skyward? Maybe give George a shout?

Eric

 

[Rocketbuilder]

I'm just gad I found a CG so I don't have to try to model that in OR. I too have a lot of projects in line, so this one probably won't get built for maybe a month, but I am going to try it! The real problem is that there are so few paper models of rockets that actually have fins!
Not to hijack, but would rockets like the Proton be stable ith just pods?
Also, I noticed that Lars Folmann's Titan 1 and X-20 model on this site https://jleslie48.com/gallery_models_postapollo.html has different shaped fins than the one you posted the link to. That is, they seem to be the same shape, but on one they appear to be attached on the long edge, and on the other they seem to be attached on one of the shorter edges. Why?

 

[SpaceAXEplorer]

I don't think you can hijack your own thread.
The link to that model says it's dead. I guess I could ask Lars why the fins are different. I'm guessing either someone else built it that way, or Lars changed the design.
Niels Jahn Knudsen is very good friend of mine and has has some excellent ESA designs as well a couple of Thor variants that all have fins...
https://www.nielspapermodels.com
Also at https://www.dpileggispicks.com There is another Thor, and some other rockets with fins too.
Have you checked those out?

The pods on the Proton may provide enough drag for stability. (SWING TEST!) lol. Bob (BobH48), if I remember, built a Delta Rocket? or something very similar to that with no extra fins, and it worked...BOB??? Care to chime in?

Bunny and I are taking a motorcycle trip today, and I need to get KITTED-UP.
Have a great day!
Eric

 

[BobH48]

The pods on the Proton may provide enough drag for stability. (SWING TEST!) lol. Bob (BobH48), if I remember, built a Delta Rocket? or something very similar to that with no extra fins, and it worked...BOB??? Care to chime in?

Yes, I built a Delta II with just pods and also a CZ-2F with just pods and both of them fly fine without any extra fins. The Delta is a little squirrely when it's windy but not unstable.

 

[Rocketbuilder]

I don't think you can hijack your own thread.
The link to that model says it's dead. I guess I could ask Lars why the fins are different. I'm guessing either someone else built it that way, or Lars changed the design.
Niels Jahn Knudsen is very good friend of mine and has has some excellent ESA designs as well a couple of Thor variants that all have fins...
https://www.nielspapermodels.com
Also at https://www.dpileggispicks.com There is another Thor, and some other rockets with fins too.
Have you checked those out?

The pods on the Proton may provide enough drag for stability. (SWING TEST!) lol. Bob (BobH48), if I remember, built a Delta Rocket? or something very similar to that with no extra fins, and it worked...BOB??? Care to chime in?

Bunny and I are taking a motorcycle trip today, and I need to get KITTED-UP.
Have a great day!
Eric

Great sites, thanks! Looks like I might not have to buy another kit for quite a while.
Bob, if you don't mind me asking, where did you adjust the CG to on your Delta? I've always wanted to build one of those.
The Saturn 1 SA-5 build is coming along, haven't had much time to work on it though. When I have something worth taking pictures of I'll probably start a (sporadic) build thread.

 

[BobH48]

Great sites, thanks! Looks like I might not have to buy another kit for quite a while.
Bob, if you don't mind me asking, where did you adjust the CG to on your Delta? I've always wanted to build one of those.
The Saturn 1 SA-5 build is coming along, haven't had much time to work on it though. When I have something worth taking pictures of I'll probably start a (sporadic) build thread.

I couldn't remember where I balanced it so I looked up the review on EMRR Rocket Reviews to find that I balanced it just forward of the boosters.

 

[Rocketbuilder]

I couldn't remember where I balanced it so I looked up the review on EMRR Rocket Reviews to find that I balanced it just forward of the boosters.

Great, thanks! I'm going to be very busy for quite a while.