Estes re-release Saturn 1b

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micrometer

micrometer

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Seems I recall reading somewhere here that it got pushed back to September. Does this mean it will be available then or in 2007? And does anyone know for certain whether it will be a 1/100 scale like the most recent ones or the old, 1/70 scale, like the old 4 engine cluster?
I have a bunch of the Dr Zooch 1B's sitting in the build pile, but I have a hankerin' for something BIGGER. Can't quite con myself into spending the bucks for that really nice 1/70 Apogee kit, and I definitely won't spend Ebay money for the 1/100 Estes ones that pop up - might as well buy the 1/70 Apogee kit for that kind of money...
 
Originally posted by micrometer
Seems I recall reading somewhere here that it got pushed back to September. Does this mean it will be available then or in 2007? And does anyone know for certain whether it will be a 1/100 scale like the most recent ones or the old, 1/70 scale, like the old 4 engine cluster?
I have a bunch of the Dr Zooch 1B's sitting in the build pile, but I have a hankerin' for something BIGGER. Can't quite con myself into spending the bucks for that really nice 1/70 Apogee kit, and I definitely won't spend Ebay money for the 1/100 Estes ones that pop up - might as well buy the 1/70 Apogee kit for that kind of money...
Click to expand...

Everything that Estes has said up to this point (which hasn't been much) has indicated the 1/70th. If it were the 1/100th, I don't think they would need to be taking this long.

For some reason there are a lot of people that really want the 1/100th. I have *NO* idea why, except to match the scale of an existing Saturn V. The 1/70th 1B is a much more impressive rocket, even as it was originally, with all paper construction.

At the same time, I can't imagine that a new 1/70th 1b would be much different than Apogee's model. In fact, if I were Barry Tunick (Estes' owner), I'd go talk with Tim (Apogee's owner and former Estes employee) and see if I couldn't just pay Tim a chunk o'change and small royalties for the molds and manufacturing rights and then apply Estes' efficiencies of scale to offer the kit cheaper. I'm sorta afraid that to get to the price point they've been talking about, the model would have to be pretty much prefabbed and possibly made of styrofoam like the E version of the SpaceshipOne.
 
I'm sorta afraid that to get to the price point they've been talking about, the model would have to be pretty much prefabbed and possibly made of styrofoam like the E version of the SpaceshipOne.
Click to expand...

A styrofoam Saturn 1B!

THAT sounds like sacrilege!
 
Originally posted by stymye
I 'm holding out for the Semroc model.
Click to expand...


Tee Hee he:
I'm still flyin my Old Estes 1/70 1b from 1972 and have a spare in the box waiting should I loose it. It'd be great to see Estes bring both the 1/100th Satrun-V and The 1/70th Saturn-IB kits back out. Having seen both Apogee's Saturn-V and I'B up close I was disappointed with the cost compaired to the detail. Sure Hope Estes keeps the Cost reasonable for the new kids...As I recall I paid about $11.00 bucks for my two K-29 kits back then:) so I'd think todays should be somewhere around $45.00???
 
Originally posted by flying_silverad
Okay...so is there a release date for the Semroc version?
Click to expand...

As soon as Carl and the gang get it done! :)
 
Originally posted by Micromeister
Tee Hee he:
I'm still flyin my Old Estes 1/70 1b from 1972 and have a spare in the box waiting should I loose it.
Click to expand...

I still have the pieces of my old Estes 1/70 1b from 1976 hanging around here. The tank section here, three fins there, the capsule in the closet, the SIV-B in front of me behind the monitor. The crumpled BT70 and inner BT-50 with the two thick FSI cloth chutes hanging from them as an object lesson not to stuff so much laundry. A slightly-hard tail-first landing is better than a ballistic nose first landing any day.

The Apogee 1B is still in the box in the closet, as are the two Estes 1/100 1Bs.
 
We are more excited about the Semroc version here but for what its worth here is the info we have on the Estes version so far...

ESTES
Part # - 2229
Desc - 1/70 Saturn 1b Model Rocket Kit
Price - $0.00 TBA
 
"Saturn 1-B D-Squared" ???

Originally posted by Countdown
We are more excited about the Semroc version here but for what its worth here is the info we have on the Estes version so far...

ESTES
Part # - 2229
Desc - 1/70 Saturn 1b Model Rocket Kit
Price - $0.00 TBA
Click to expand...
 
it is humor.

A guess that it will be powered by a cluster of 2 D12 motors instead of the original cluster of 4 18mm motors.

Reason: They don't have a controller in production that can ignite more than 2 motors.

They sell the 36 D-Squared kit.

Saturn 1-B D-Squared.

Get it?

Originally posted by Countdown
that one flew right over my head...
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by shreadvector
it is humor.

A guess that it will be powered by a cluster of 2 D12 motors instead of the original cluster of 4 18mm motors.

Reason: They don't have a controller in production that can ignite more than 2 motors.

They sell the 36 D-Squared kit.

Saturn 1-B D-Squared.

Get it?
Click to expand...

yeah now it all makes sense... that will be cool though becuase that also means we will get to see some on E30T's... but 4 D21's wouldnt have been bad either...
 
Originally posted by Countdown
We are more excited about the Semroc version here (snip)
Click to expand...

That sounds interesting. Can you share more details on that one?
 
Originally posted by Micromeister
Having seen both Apogee's Saturn-V and I'B up close I was disappointed with the cost compaired to the detail.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm surprised. I have not personally seen either of Apogee's kits, but they do stress the level of detail they put into their kits. What specifically did you think was lacking? Their Apollo capsule and the LEM compartment doors seem to be very highly detailed, at least from their pics. Only negatives I've heard were the thinness of their wraps.
 
Originally posted by micrometer
Wow, I'm surprised. I have not personally seen either of Apogee's kits, but they do stress the level of detail they put into their kits. What specifically did you think was lacking? Their Apollo capsule and the LEM compartment doors seem to be very highly detailed, at least from their pics. Only negatives I've heard were the thinness of their wraps.
Click to expand...

Without going into all the gory details, at 4 times the cost of most very nicely detailed models you'd expect museum quality parts and scale features. While both Saturn-V and 1b are nice 1/70th sport scale models I personally find neither worth nearly the Apogee asking price. Looking at their 1B and my 33 year old "Stock" Estes Satrun-1B side by side it's very very hard to justify the cost of the end product. You'd be WAY money ahead to scretch build the entire thing yourself.. even having custom parts made by others you'd be hard pressed to spend that much money. Sorry; as a Scale modeler I was just taken back by what you get for 185.00 bucks these days:( But then I'm one of those guys that if I can't make it myself I didn't need it anyway;)
 
Originally posted by RoyGreen
I still have the pieces of my old Estes 1/70 1b from 1976 hanging around here. The tank section here, three fins there, the capsule in the closet, the SIV-B in front of me behind the monitor. The crumpled BT70 and inner BT-50 with the two thick FSI cloth chutes hanging from them as an object lesson not to stuff so much laundry. A slightly-hard tail-first landing is better than a ballistic nose first landing any day.

The Apogee 1B is still in the box in the closet, as are the two Estes 1/100 1Bs.
Click to expand...

Roy:
Our closets must look about the same:D I've been sitting on 3 different Estes Satrun-V's for years... thinking I'd be building at least one of them to replace my retired 139flight Saturn-V built in 1970. But they like so many other Old kits from that Golden Era are just sitting there collecting lots of dust:D Maybe when I retire:D:D:D
 
Originally posted by Afterburner
That sounds interesting. Can you share more details on that one?
Click to expand...

Specifications
Kit # - KS-1
Name- Saturn 1B™
Retail Price- $45.00
Availability- Coming Soon!
Body Diameter - 3.938" (10.0 cm)
Length- 37" (94.0 cm)
Fin Span- 7.1" (17.9 cm)
Net Weight - 9.9 oz (280.0 g)
Fins - Laser-Cut Balsa
Nose Cone- Precision Turned Balsa
Recovery- 32" Parachute
Decals- Waterslide
Skill Level - 5 - Expert
Stages - Single

Engine Approx. Altitude
four B6-2 Unknown
four C6-5 750'
one D12-3 Unknown

there ya go
 
Originally posted by micrometer
Wow, I'm surprised. I have not personally seen either of Apogee's kits, but they do stress the level of detail they put into their kits. What specifically did you think was lacking? Their Apollo capsule and the LEM compartment doors seem to be very highly detailed, at least from their pics. Only negatives I've heard were the thinness of their wraps.
Click to expand...


I think he's being a little hard on it. Though basically, it is the Centuri Saturn V scaled up.

Wraps are updated and stringers are closer to accurate. I'm pretty sure the wraps were done by John Pursley, who has done some very fine Saturn V models in the past for NARAM competition, and who is one of the people working on the restoration of the JSC/Houston Saturn V. But there's still only so much you can do with vacuformed parts.

I think you've got to strike a balance for a commercial model between accuracy and level of difficulty. Especially considering the difference between Estes and Apogee. Estes could have probably produced the kit for $150, maybe less. I don't think Tim had anyway of doing that, considering the cost of the molds and the expected sales (which he probably hasn't met for the 1B). He obviously met it for the Saturn V, but not well enough that he could justify another run of the kit until next year. From the way it sounds, though, he is making some improvements for the next run.
 
I have the Apogee 1-B. The kit is very nice and complete. I am happy with the quality for the price, and the packaging is very nice. The 1-B is my favorite scale model and believe it or not I do not have a built one. If I can't do it PERFECTLY I will not do it at all. I went to Estes back when Vern was still there and he had the original photo model of the 1/70th 1-B in his office. Upon close examination of the model I could see that it was FAR from perfect. The fins, lower "crown" shroud and balsa details were rough to say the least. I felt better about the one that I screwed up at that point! I will build one eventually; Apogee, Semroc or Estes, whichever one I feel I can do well!
 
I've been working on an Apogee SV for some time now ... it's a fantastic kit. Was it worth the price? Depends on your point of view, I guess ... I'm happy with mine. It's not a beginner's kit by any means and I've done some things to improve the detailing, especially the engines and engine fairings. When I make a little more progress, I'll post some pics.
 
"Is it worth the price?" There's an age old question. I guess considering the time and effort it takes going researching, designing, compiling data and the hundreds of other issues that go into kitting a model, when it comes right down to it, the price isn't so bad. And let us not forget, someone has to pay for the insurance, water, heat sewer, electric (yikes), taxes, yata yata yata....
 
This is why there is Semroc... for those who want nice kits for less...

Apogee can be high priced but like said when you factor in everything... it comes out about right... I mean unless the prices are made up out of thin air for the most part they would go off of numbers and %'s... so if say the parts for Apogee cost $X and took X amount fo tuime they will get a number, then add the retail margin and poof you have a price... so aside from wanting too much $ for your time it cant be an unfair price...
 
Right... Apogee has injection molded plastic parts... THATS expensive. I would want that in 1/70 1-B.
 
My theory whenever I sell something (it's also my dad's) is to take my price and multiply by 147%. That'll get you a good number to work with. Make sure your cost includes a bit of labor.

Jason
 
My game plan is to get the Semroc Saturn 1B, and then buy Apogee's 1/70th Apollo Capsule Set kit (which includes the capsule shroud, the escape tower, and the RCS thrusters for the Service Module. Apogee sell the kit separately for $16.91:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/apollo_capsule.asp

I have seen the Apogee Saturn V up close (same scale, and same capsule kit as the Saturn 1B), and it is much more accurate than the Estes kits. The Apogee kit has a much more accurate capsule launch shroud, and it has details on the Service Module and LEM Shroud that just aren't on the Estes kits.

I have the 30th anniversary Estes Saturn V (*almost* done... just paint touch-up and decals to do). This kit uses the vacuum formed wraps from the old Centuri kit, which is unfortunately less accurate than the old Estes Saturn V. Nonetheless, I love my Saturn V.

Is the Apogee kit worth the money? If my wife wouldn't kill me for spending the money, I would buy it. One has to recognize that kits that are built in smaller volumes by smaller companies are just going to cost more per kit than mass produced kits. There is a lot of tooling/ die costs with injection molded parts, and the more kits that a company churns out, the more that those fixed costs can be spread out.

BTW, if anyone wants a high power Saturn V (1/64th scale), check out Sirius Rocketry:

https://www.siriusrocketry.com/Saturn51.htm

DeWain
 
I have an original Estes 1/70th Saturn 1b, crappily half-built back in 1975 or so. I bought it from Eisenstadts' Hardware with my Christmas money. Just $10.00, but it meant a lot back then and I kept the corpse all of these years.

A few years back, I partially disassembled it and have cleaned off lots of the crappily assembled and glued-on detail bits.

Left to do:

Print out new capsule shroud.

Rebuild launch tower. (I still have the little tube and balsa parts!)

Recreate all of the detail bits . . . thrusters and conduits and such. I'll use styrene sheets rather than cardboard.

Build a new tank shroud.

Rebuild the fins. This is the biggy that has kept me from plunging in and finishing the project. As you may know, the original kit has fins contructed from paper skins folded over HAND CUT balsa frame bits. EIGHT of them! ARRGGHHH! I'm considering ordering a spare set of fin parts from whatever the Semroc kit uses for fins.

I'm pretty sure I ordered a replacement set of decals already.
 

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