Custom 54mm Fiberglass Airframe

[flynfrog]

I used a ply of heat shrink release film and wrapped with peel ply to get the ID correct. The tube would have pulled easier without the heat shrink tubing. it started to bunch against the puller plate.

 

[REK]

Just had a curiousity, would anyone be interested in purchasing the airframe if it turns out great? I am thinking of making fiberglass airframes as a small business to make a few bucks here and there. Thanks to Dan Patell I should be able to make 29, 38, and 54 millimeter airframes with those aluminum tubings from texas towers.

 

[Aksrockets]

Just had a curiousity, would anyone be interested in purchasing the airframe if it turns out great? I am thinking of making fiberglass airframes as a small business to make a few bucks here and there. Thanks to Dan Patell I should be able to make 29, 38, and 54 millimeter airframes with those aluminum tubings from texas towers.

Depends largely on the price and quality. Thing is, plenty of companies already make and sell FG tubes, can you compete with their quality and price? Things like Fiberglass/Carbon fiber blended would be much better because nobody makes them. I may do a small production run of blended tubes next year.

Also, If someone was custom ordering. We would need to see proof of what composites experience you have.

Alex

 

[REK]

Depends largely on the price and quality. Thing is, plenty of companies already make and sell FG tubes, can you compete with their quality and price? Things like Fiberglass/Carbon fiber blended would be much better because nobody makes them. I may do a small production run of blended tubes next year.

Also, If someone was custom ordering. We would need to see proof of what composites experience you have.

Alex

Proving it is already being done by posting my results on here. That is why I am saying if anyone would be interested in purchasing the airframe if it turns out great. The topic on competing with other companies that sell fiberglass airframes is a very good question. However, will other companies sell fiberglass airframes one foot longer for the same price? I could also make a fiberglass/carbon fiber as well, is it really that difficult to make? To me it would only be a challenge to experiment and have fun with to get the perfect finish on a hybrid such as that. Carbon fiber is indeed more expensive, however. As far as quality goes, lets just say I have been doing my research. If it is true that the 8 Harness Satin fiberglass cloth uses a high glass to resin ratio. Then that can only mean my airframes will be lighter and at the same time stronger, not to mention they will be compression bonded and heat cured. I also have found convolute fiberglass or carbon airframes to be stronger and lighter than heavy filament wound fiberglass tubes, which is what most companies sale these days. I wont start making these airframes until I get the hang of working with composites of course :wink:. I can guarantee you this fiberglass airframe will be magnificent, however. I am that confident in my work.

 

[REK]

Will be placing the order for the Aeropoxy 2 hour laminating resin in the Quart kit so that I may have lots to work with later on today. Once I get it the fun can begin .

 

[REK]

Looks like things are going to have to wait. For some reason the Aeropoxy Store doesn't finalize my order for the 2 hour Qt. Kit. Does anyone know of any other source that can top $49?

 

[Sailorbill]

Try Aircraftspruce. We have purchased everything up to gallon kits from them.

For an inexpensive disposable mandrel try a 2" mailing tube and cover it with 3M packaging tape going the long way. After it is cured drop it in a bathtub full of warm water and let it soak for a couple of hours. It peels out fairly easy and both my CTI and AT cases fit nicely.

 

[REK]

Try Aircraftspruce. We have purchased everything up to gallon kits from them.

For an inexpensive disposable mandrel try a 2" mailing tube and cover it with 3M packaging tape going the long way. After it is cured drop it in a bathtub full of warm water and let it soak for a couple of hours. It peels out fairly easy and both my CTI and AT cases fit nicely.

I already tried Aircraft spruce, the Quart kit is $10 more.

 

[REK]

Looks like I will just have to wait until Monday. I will keep everyone posted when the Aeropoxy gets here.

 

[rokit]

I discovered one unique advantage to this approach. When heating the heat shrink tubing, you also heat up the entire lamination. This gives the epoxy a heat cured process.

Not exactly. If you heat the epoxy before it's cured, it only speeds up the initial curing time. It won't improve the material properties like Tg. In order to raise the Tg, after the initial cure, you need to apply heat according to the epoxy manufacturer's schedule.

Allowing for quick removal of the mylar and heat shrink tubing material.

Only if you keep it at an elevated temperature until the epoxy cures. The pressure of the heat shrink tubing can still deform the lamination even after the epoxy starts to gel, so if the mandrel starts shrinking before the epoxy fully cures, so will your layup.

So, keep it warm until the epoxy cures. The inside of your car as it sits outside during the daytime should work fine; if you're in a real hurry, on the dash things get pretty hot this time of year. After curing, if the layup is hard to get off the mandrel, try putting it in the freezer overnight. The coefficient of expansion is higher for aluminum, thus it will shrink more when it gets cold.

Mike

 

[REK]

The order for the Aeropoxy has been placed and I should be getting it by the end of the week as usual. By then I should also have the scale I also ordered to weigh the epoxy. One last item I will be expecting is the heat shrink tubing from Dunstone, which will be used as a replacement for mylar should be here as well. I am really looking forward to this.

 

[maxvelocity]

That is the idea genius, I really don't see myself putting it in an oven (which I do not have that can fit large airframes) after it has cured to increase material properties like Tg. If I do get an oven of that size I could heat cure it even further after the initial cure to make it more stronger.



The epoxy will have already been fully cured and hardened after a lot of heat being applied to shrink the heat shrink tubing. Clearly you have not read I have already tried this. Until you try it, I kindly ask you to not post your assumptions as to what might happen by doing this approach.

When I say quick removal of the mylar and heat shrink tubing. I really mean it, because the mandrel (my 2G Pro54 casing) was cooked at probably 150 degrees Fahrenheit using my mother's hair dryer to shrink the heat shrink tubing. Once the lamination was cooled after placing it on the air conditioner. I easily removed the heat shrink tubing by cutting it open with a hobby knife and was able to peel away the mylar. Not even the scotch tape that I used to join the mylar together did not stick to the epoxy and came off with ease.

So you're saying your epoxy is fully curing in just the time you have the heat gun on the shrink wrap??

 

[REK]

So you're saying your epoxy is fully curing in just the time you have the heat gun on the shrink wrap??

I thought to myself too that would happen, but after trying it out that was not the case. The purpose of the heat shrink tubing after all is to squeegee excess epoxy. It pretty much takes awhile before it hardens of course, not while the heat is being applied it doesn't really just harden that instantly.

 

[jsargevt]

That is the idea genius,

You ask if people would want to buy stuff from you? Let me give you a nickel's worth of free advice: Perception is reality. You come across as a know it all jerk in some of your replies. This can alienate prospective customers rather quickly.

I am sure you don't intend it but that is how it seems to me. Just thought I'd share how you appear when I read some of your posts.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[REK]

You ask if people would want to buy stuff from you? Let me give you a nickel's worth of free advice: Perception is reality. You come across as a know it all jerk in some of your replies. This can alienate prospective customers rather quickly.

I am sure you don't intend it but that is how it seems to me. Just thought I'd share how you appear when I read some of your posts.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Fine I will say no more and keep it to myself.

 

[jsargevt]

Fine I will say no more and keep it to myself.

Nope not what I was getting at. I didn't say "stop talking" I said to consider how you say something and maybe find a better way of saying it. That is all.

 

[REK]

Nope not what I was getting at. I didn't say "stop talking" I said to consider how you say something and maybe find a better way of saying it. That is all.

For someone like me I can not find a much more better way to say it when I feel as though my methods are being questioned and then turned down as though it will not work or has no advantage. I think it is better if I just not say anything if it is a comment that seems to bother me.

 

[Aksrockets]

For someone like me I can not find a much more better way to say it when I feel as though my methods are being questioned and then turned down as though it will not work or has no advantage. I think it is better if I just not say anything if it is a comment that seems to bother me.

If you need to argue why you support your methods, by all means do so. Just have a respectful tone.
Participating in respectful debates is normal part of forum contribution. If you feel like you need to voice your opinion or support your methods, go ahead. Not everyone needs to think the same thing.

Alex

 

[CarVac]

For someone like me I can not find a much more better way to say it when I feel as though my methods are being questioned and then turned down as though it will not work or has no advantage. I think it is better if I just not say anything if it is a comment that seems to bother me.

Overcome doubt with sound reasoning and results.

Either you can prove them wrong, or try to figure out their reasoning (hopefully they spelled it out, but it seems that they didn't in this case?) and see why you are wrong.

Can you think of any reason why they said what they said? Why they have doubts about your method? It could be enlightening. I have learned a lot from thoughtlessly critical comments I have received, but it takes a firm will not to get angry.

 

[REK]

If you need to argue why you support your methods, by all means do so. Just have a respectful tone.
Participating in respectful debates is normal part of forum contribution. If you feel like you need to voice your opinion or support your methods, go ahead. Not everyone needs to think the same thing.

Alex

I will keep this in mind Alex.

 

[REK]

Overcome doubt with sound reasoning and results.

Either you can prove them wrong, or try to figure out their reasoning (hopefully they spelled it out, but it seems that they didn't in this case?) and see why you are wrong.

Can you think of any reason why they said what they said? Why they have doubts about your method? It could be enlightening. I have learned a lot from thoughtlessly critical comments I have received, but it takes a firm will not to get angry.

I will just have to prove them wrong I suppose. The only reason why I would think they would say that is, because they haven't tried this approach before and that is why it is questioned through other methods and experiences they have.

 

[CarVac]

I will just have to prove them wrong I suppose. The only reason why I would think they would say that is, because they haven't tried this approach before and that is why it is questioned through other methods and experiences they have.

If I understand what the criticism was, then they were wondering why you were trying to add compression AFTER the epoxy gelled.

If that is not the case, then good, but in my personal experience having once tried to compress a layup after it gelled, the compression removed no further epoxy, thus making it fairly pointless.

 

[jsargevt]

If you need to argue why you support your methods, by all means do so. Just have a respectful tone.
Participating in respectful debates is normal part of forum contribution. If you feel like you need to voice your opinion or support your methods, go ahead. Not everyone needs to think the same thing.

Alex

Said much more eloquently than me. Again - the discourse is interesting. If this was a useless conversation I wouldn't have bothered saying anything.

 

[bill2654]

You ask if people would want to buy stuff from you? Let me give you a nickel's worth of free advice: Perception is reality. You come across as a know it all jerk in some of your replies. This can alienate prospective customers rather quickly.

I am sure you don't intend it but that is how it seems to me. Just thought I'd share how you appear when I read some of your posts.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

That's my exact impression. You ask for advise and then get snotty with you answers .And it's not just on this thread. I wouldn't buy squat from you.

 

[REK]

That's my exact impression. You ask for advise and then get snotty with you answers .And it's not just on this thread. I wouldn't buy squat from you.

Fine by me.

 

[REK]

I want to apologize to everyone for my rude behavior.

 

[bill2654]

Yeah sorry, my last comment was un called for. I was just a little turned off by some of your answers. Im really interested to see how your tube comes out.

 

[REK]

Yeah sorry, my last comment was un called for. I was just a little turned off by some of your answers. Im really interested to see how your tube comes out.

I understand, I am just still an imature boy who doesnt know how to think before saying something. I sometimes wonder if I got this from my Dad, because thats how he is.

 

[Sailorbill]

I understand, I am just still an imature boy who doesnt know how to think before saying something. I sometimes wonder if I got this from my Dad, because thats how he is.

I have learned that sometimes what I write isn't what I wanted to say. Sometimes it is a reaction to what someone has said and I feel challenged or offended. I have found that my hurried posts and replies can come off snarky. I try to compose my replies then read, proof read and reread them before posting. I will often get up and walk around before I hit the send key. It is amazing how many times I change or even delete a reply.

 

[Cyril's Scribe]

Also, text does not carry tone-of-voice very well, and an implied conciliatory tone can come off sounding...angry. I personally try to word things more critically these days, and especially when I am messaging a large group. I have definitely committed more than my share of faux pas forgetting about these things.