CTI Discussion Thread

[jd2cylman]

If I didn’t know better, it almost looks like you got a mis marked reload…
I flew a 38mm J381SK Saturday and it had plenty of sparks, but then again, it was several years old. So

Oh, and it was at Bong also…

 

[bobbyg23]

Sa

Hello -- This is not 100% on topic but I think close. Yesterday launching my MadCow "Dutch Frenzy" in The Netherlands I used a 38 mm CTI 434 I223-14A SkidMark. I've used these excellent motors for years-- but it seems that since my last Skidmark flights in the USA in 2016 and 2017 using these motors and the recent flights 2020 and 2021 the "spark" has gone from these motors. See the pictures attached -- the pics with the HUGE amount of sparks are from 2016-17 (Belgian Flag painted Black-Yellow-Red Endeavour) and the Blue-white-red rocket shows "some sparks" but it seems almost like a "classic" burn motor-- not a "true SkidMark". I am wondering if the formulation has changed for the Skidmarks? The 2016-17 motors had production dates about 2014-2016 and the recent low-spark ones 6 June 2019. Be great to hear your feedback! The motors all worked great from an ignition, thrust and overall reliability standpoint. Dual deploy -- great flights. Thanks, Stephen Monday 24 May 2021

Same thing happened to me last month. I was greatly disappointed.

 

[jd2cylman]

Same thing happened to me last month. I was greatly disappointed.

Ok, well, I just bought a J381SK to replace the one I flew, so I guess I’ll just have to fly it at mini Midwest Power this weekend…

 

[scschulte]

If I didn’t know better, it almost looks like you got a mis marked reload…
I flew a 38mm J381SK Saturday and it had plenty of sparks, but then again, it was several years old. So

Oh, and it was at Bong also…

Thanks for the reply! I hope CTI replies as well. I've now had 3 I223 SkidMark motors with the "sparkless" appearance since 2019 and returning to Europe. So it may be a specific lot but it's not just a one-off. I really think that perhaps after the March 2016 accident at CTI that they made a formulation change-- but that is just a guess on my part. I'd be pleased if anyone with a 'sparky' manufactured in 2019 or 2020 that has the GREAT SKIDMARK appearance could reply as well. But it seems others are seeing what I am. (I did not notice this until today's flight -- my wife had a 5-year memory on her FB page and there was the 2016 BONG launch -- SUPER SPARKY and then it hit me that there was quite a difference!) OK not a real big deal but I do love those SkidMarks! Steve Monday 24 May 2021.

 

[scschulte]

If I didn’t know better, it almost looks like you got a mis marked reload…
I flew a 38mm J381SK Saturday and it had plenty of sparks, but then again, it was several years old. So

Oh, and it was at Bong also…

One more comment and photo: You can see from the on-board "Mobius Mini" camera that this is definitely a "skidmark" motor-- just not a lot of sparks like I remember from 2016-17.

 

[Cesaroni Technology]

Hello -- This is not 100% on topic but I think close. Yesterday launching my MadCow "Dutch Frenzy" in The Netherlands I used a 38 mm CTI 434 I223-14A SkidMark. I've used these excellent motors for years-- but it seems that since my last Skidmark flights in the USA in 2016 and 2017 using these motors and the recent flights 2020 and 2021 the "spark" has gone from these motors. See the pictures attached -- the pics with the HUGE amount of sparks are from 2016-17 (Belgian Flag painted Black-Yellow-Red Endeavour) and the Blue-white-red rocket shows "some sparks" but it seems almost like a "classic" burn motor-- not a "true SkidMark". I am wondering if the formulation has changed for the Skidmarks? The 2016-17 motors had production dates about 2014-2016 and the recent low-spark ones 6 June 2019. Be great to hear your feedback! The motors all worked great from an ignition, thrust and overall reliability standpoint. Dual deploy -- great flights. Thanks, Stephen Monday 24 May 2021

We haven't changed anything in the formulation, my assumption is that you got a mislabeled reload, looks more like a classic. Can you give me the date codes for the motors? If you have any others from '20 -'21 could you send me pics of the grains?

 

[scschulte]

Hello and thanks for your reply!! Again, this is NOT a complaint, just something I wanted to bring to your attention. At least 3 CTI 434 I223 Skidmarks that I've flown in the past 2 years have this same "look" - like you say, more like a classic than a true "Skidmark". BUT as you can see, there are sparks! OK so I'm not sure where to find the "Date codes" for the motor-- there is a stamp showing "June 06 2019" on the latest one I flew (and I have another one with that same date that I've not yet used). When you say from 2020, 2021 - I don't have any but I'll send this info to our NL dealer who works very closely with you to see if the 2 of you can resolve this. (How would I send a photo of the grains?). OK it is an interesting one and again, appreciate your personal and professional attention to this! Looking forward to more CTI motors getting ignited at our 13 June launch date! Stephen Tuesday 25 May 2021

 

[jd2cylman]

(How would I send a photo of the grains?).

Remove the reload from shipping tube. Remove forward closure just like you would to adjust the delay. Carefully dump out the grains from the liner, paying attention to which grain was the top one. Stand grains on end and snap pictures. Post here.

 

[scschulte]

Remove the reload from shipping tube. Remove forward closure just like you would to adjust the delay. Carefully dump out the grains from the liner, paying attention to which grain was the top one. Stand grains on end and snap pictures. Post here.

OK let me just verify everything with you before doing that. So I understand I take a *NEW motor, then as you said remove the forward closure and put that aside. Now I guess there are going to be some grains in the top of the motor section that will be loose and I can tip the motor to pour them out. Not sure how big these grains are going to be and whether they are different from the main composition of the solid rocket fuel mix… I assume this does nothing to harm the motor - I just re-insert the forward closure and the motor is good to use, correct? Thanks for confirming or correcting what I've written here and I'll take those photos. Steve on Tuesday 25 May 2021 17:35 *WAIT - you may mean for me to do this with the USED motor that I just flew… Please let me know which -- Thanks!

 

[scschulte]

OK let me just verify everything with you before doing that. So I understand I take a *NEW motor, then as you said remove the forward closure and put that aside. Now I guess there are going to be some grains in the top of the motor section that will be loose and I can tip the motor to pour them out. Not sure how big these grains are going to be and whether they are different from the main composition of the solid rocket fuel mix… I assume this does nothing to harm the motor - I just re-insert the forward closure and the motor is good to use, correct? Thanks for confirming or correcting what I've written here and I'll take those photos. Steve on Tuesday 25 May 2021 17:35 *WAIT - you may mean for me to do this with the USED motor that I just flew… Please let me know which -- Thanks!

Wait again - you wrote: "Remove the reload from shipping tube." so you mean a new motor. OK but do I have the rest correct? Thanks--- Steve

 

[jd2cylman]

Wait again - you wrote: "Remove the reload from shipping tube." so you mean a new motor. OK but do I have the rest correct? Thanks--- Steve

Yup, new motor. Only thing to worry about is the top grain may have a black powder pellet in the center for better ignition (may not be there, don’t remember which ones have it and which don’t).

 

[Rocketclar]

I recently bought a 38 mm G60-14A Red Lightning from a vendor at a launch. At the time I didn't know about the pellet issue. The date is Aug 21, 2017. The package is marked with a "X" on top of the package. There is no QC sticker about the pellet (like some other CTI G's I bought.) A week or so I messaged CTI but no response. So my ? is, do I need to modify the pellet in this motor before use? Thanx.

 

[crossfire]

I recently bought a 38 mm G60-14A Red Lightning from a vendor at a launch. At the time I didn't know about the pellet issue. The date is Aug 21, 2017. The package is marked with a "X" on top of the package. There is no QC sticker about the pellet (like some other CTI G's I bought.) A week or so I messaged CTI but no response. So my ? is, do I need to modify the pellet in this motor before use? Thanx.

Take a look at the pellet if it looks like it's been cut with some kind of blade your good to go. If it nice and flat on both ends most likely it has not been fixed. Don't fly it if not modified. It will Cato. I think CTI has a video on the fix.

 

[Cesaroni Technology]

I recently bought a 38 mm G60-14A Red Lightning from a vendor at a launch. At the time I didn't know about the pellet issue. The date is Aug 21, 2017. The package is marked with a "X" on top of the package. There is no QC sticker about the pellet (like some other CTI G's I bought.) A week or so I messaged CTI but no response. So my ? is, do I need to modify the pellet in this motor before use? Thanx.

Yes any P38 1G motor purchased after April 2017 will require the pellet modification. Motors produced after we found the issue are already modified and will have a QC Approved sticker on them.
http://pro38.com/pdfs/Bulletin_Pro38_1G_Pellet_Issue_v1.2.pdf

 

[Precision3D]

Is CTI hiring?

 

[Cesaroni Technology]

Is CTI hiring?

Actually we will be hiring another propellant technician in the near future.

 

[scschulte]

Sorry I haven't been able to get to my rocket motor box and look at the SkidMark motor / take photos. I'll try to do that tomorrow or this weekend. I'll post as soon as I get to that.

Thanks,

Steve Thursday 27 May 2021

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Got a 54mm rear closure from Wildman Monday. Won't fit my old cases and more checking shows it only goes on the new case 2 turns. The old closures go on all cases 3-1/2 turns. Tim should have contacted you on this issue.

 

[crossfire]

Got a 54mm rear closure from Wildman Monday. Won't fit my old cases and more checking shows it only goes on the new case 2 turns. The old closures go on all cases 3-1/2 turns. Tim should have contacted you on this issue.

When did CTI change the 54mm cases?

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

When did CTI change the 54mm cases?

I believe once again their has been a QC issue , this time at the machine shop.

 

[Precision3D]

Actually we will be hiring another propellant technician in the near future.

I'll send in my resume!

 

[Cameron Anderson]

I know I have personally discussed it previously and it has been brought up before, but I had another M840 with some odd nozzle erosion. I flew my Madcow DX3 XL this weekend a on an M840 and it corkscrewed the first few seconds of flight. After about 5 seconds, it settled down and flew straight and really accelerated (AIM XTRA 3 data confirmed initial oscillation and slower than expected boost; video shows the corkscrew and more interestingly, shows a very interesting exhaust plume which is not uniform at all). The airframe normally flies straight as an arrow. Previous conversations about the M840 talked about poor impulse from the erosion, but I hit 20,899' and was simmed at 21,514' so I didn't experience any noteworthy impulse loss. I was aware of instances of odd nozzle erosion with the M840 and wanted to document this flight carefully in the event I experienced it.

Here is the link to the video and pictures of the nozzles.


Here are the picture for those who don't want to see the video.

 

[Ulexis]

Yesterday your H54-10A reload CATO'd destroying my rocket and the case. It almost instantly blew the forward closer thru the rocket. The black thing racing past the nose cone is I believe the forward closer. How do I at least get the case replaced? I filed a MESS report.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Got a call from CTI today. They will replace the closure with an old one (fine knurl). I expect it will fit

 

[tim cubbedge]

Yesterday your H54-10A reload CATO'd destroying my rocket and the case. It almost instantly blew the forward closer thru the rocket. The black thing racing past the nose cone is I believe the forward closer. How do I at least get the case replaced? I filed a MESS report.View attachment 467137View attachment 467138View attachment 467139

Contact your motor vendor. They should file the claim for you.

 

[Cesaroni Technology]

Yesterday your H54-10A reload CATO'd destroying my rocket and the case. It almost instantly blew the forward closer thru the rocket. The black thing racing past the nose cone is I believe the forward closer. How do I at least get the case replaced? I filed a MESS report.View attachment 467137View attachment 467138View attachment 467139

You can fill out the warranty form here,
http://www.pro38.com/pdfs/ProX_Warranty_Form_V1.0.pdf
We'll replace the case and reload, and the closure if it's damaged.

 

[bobbyg23]

Hello all. I just purchased a 54mm 3g case and 1 spacer. This is my first 54mm case. Is there anything to watch out for on the 54mm motors and cases?

 

[jimzcatz]

Nope, they are idiot proof. Just don't forget the rear closure

 

[crossfire]

Contact your motor vendor. They should file the claim for you.

Don't bet on it.

 

[jimzcatz]

regarding the possible mislabeled load, CTI dyes their propellant, The skid loads should look like,well babypoop. Hence "skidmark". It will be brown with fine specks of titanium in it that you can actually feel. Hope this helps.