CTI CATO.. what to do?

[rockets]

Hello everyone,
I should’ve made this post months ago, but had a crazy busy summer and got sidetracked..

Anyways, back in April at Thunderstruck, I launched a CTI I297SK in my LOC IV. At about 250 ft, the nozzle blew out and the propellant continued to burn as it reached its low apogee. As a result, it ended up burning out the motor mount area and zippering all the way to the motor mount.

My question is, how do I report this to CTI? I bought the motor from Wildman and at the time I was told to go on the CTI website and file it, but I don’t see anywhere where I can do that.

The motor casing is a little toasted, I assume it’s done for? Some of the threads look a little rough.

Thanks

 

[cwbullet]

MESS report and contact the seller.

 

[manixFan]

https://www.motorcato.org/report

Tony

 

[Titan II]

but I don’t see anywhere where I can do that.

website...downloads...warranty

 

[mikec]

website...downloads...warranty

http://www.pro38.com/pdfs/ProX_Warranty_Form_V1.0.pdf
And then you return the warranty form to the dealer, not to CTI.

To be clear, the MESS report is a service to the community and you should file one, but doesn't have anything to do with the warranty.

 

[rockets]

Thank you all!

 

[CoyoteNumber2]

What does one do if the motor was purchased from a dealer that no longer exists?

 

[mikec]

What does one do if the motor was purchased from a dealer that no longer exists?

Reach out to another CTI dealer, I'd say. AFAIK, CTI doesn't expect dealers to replace from stock, they just serve as a shipping intermediary, so it really shouldn't be a huge burden. Of course, based on what I've heard, some dealers are apparently happier with CTI than others, so YMMV depending on who you go to.

 

[Tom Flint]

Still waiting for my replacement for a 2 grain 54mm J that blew a year ago. I say cut your losses and buy Aerotech stuff.

 

[jsdemar]

Still waiting for my replacement for a 2 grain 54mm J that blew a year ago. I say cut your losses and buy Aerotech stuff.

Which dealer did you buy it from?

 

[Tom Flint]

Which dealer did you buy it from?

I'd rather not say publicly because I don't want to create ill will with a vendor who has been good to me on all other transactions for years, but I will say that he has not received any CTI product since I had my issue.

 

[jsdemar]

I'd rather not say publicly because I don't want to create ill will with a vendor who has been good to me on all other transactions for years, but I will say that he has not received any CTI product since I had my issue.

CTI has shipped products to dealers during the past year. Your vendor likely decided not to place an order with CTI. Without the full reason, it doesn’t justify telling others not to buy CTI products.

 

[cwbullet]

As a prefect that has seen many failures from all three current high power AP motor producers. All three can have CATOs. Except a batch of 38s and one 54 single long reload from CTI, I have not seen a significant higher CATO from one manuafacturer to another. I will say that CTI and the dealers are easy to to get a replacement due to CATOs.

 

[Frederocket]

As a prefect that has seen many failures from all three current high power AP motor producers. All three can have CATOs. Except a batch of 38s and one 54 single long reload from CTI, I have not seen a significant higher CATO from one manuafacturer to another. I will say that CTI and the dealers are easy to to get a replacement due to CATOs.

Warranty should work this way:
1. Flyer experiences a cato/burn through, etc.
2. Flyer fills out warranty form and gives it to his dealer and the dealer verifies and submits warranty claim to manufacture.
3. Manufacture ships replacement load/hardware to dealer or individual without waiting for the next dealer order submission.
4. Unless warranty replacement is sent directly to the individual claimant, dealer gives the warranty replacement load & hardware to the claimant and the warranty case is closed.

Wouldn't it be nice if warranty claims were processed like that.

 

[cwbullet]

Warranty should work this way:
1. Flyer experiences a cato/burn through, etc.
2. Flyer fills out warranty form and gives it to his dealer and the dealer verifies and submits warranty claim to manufacture.
3. Manufacture ships replacement load/hardware to dealer or individual without waiting for the next dealer order submission.
4. Unless warranty replacement is sent directly to the individual claimant, dealer gives the warranty replacement load & hardware to the claimant and the warranty case is closed.

Wouldn't it be nice if warranty claims were processed like that.

Not just rocket motors but in general. I don't need a magazine glass looking in a bodily orifice to get a warranty.

 

[jsdemar]

For CTI, you don’t have to go through the dealer you purchased from to get a warranty replacement. You can give/send the warranty form to a CTI dealer who actually orders motors regularly and in quantity. I spoke with Robert at AMW and he said he will take care of CTI warranty replacements no matter where the flyer purchased from. The only caveat is that you’ll need to cover the shipping if you don’t go to a launch AMW attends. If you order other reloads (CTI or AT) there wouldn’t be an additional shipping charge.

 

[Frederocket]

For CTI, you don’t have to go through the dealer you purchased from to get a warranty replacement. You can give/send the warranty form to a CTI dealer who actually orders motors regularly and in quantity. I spoke with Robert at AMW and he said he will take care of CTI warranty replacements no matter where the flyer purchased from. The only caveat is that you’ll need to cover the shipping if you don’t go to a launch AMW attends. If you order other reloads (CTI or AT) there wouldn’t be an additional shipping charge.

With all due respect to Robert who I consider a friend, there should be no caveats required for warranty service. Any caveat charges should be the responsibility of the manufacturer and not the customer or dealer to absorb...

 

[jsdemar]

With all due respect to Robert who I consider a friend, there should be no caveats required for warranty service. Any caveat charges should be the responsibility of the manufacturer and not the customer or dealer to absorb...

Most warrantees on products in all walks of life do not cover shipping. Why such high expectations for rocket motors? This is such a small market and there’s no dealer network to allow people to walk into a local store for a swap.

Robert at AMW has no obligation to offer warranty exchanges for other CTI vendors. I thought it was a genuine gesture of good will. He has a lot on his mind after losing his wife/best friend/ business partner 10 days ago. If someone wants to wait on their dealer, go ahead.

 

[cwbullet]

I thought it was a genuine gesture of good will.

It is for any dealer to take a CATO and apply for replacement when they did not sell the original.

 

[Frederocket]

Most warrantees on products in all walks of life do not cover shipping. Why such high expectations for rocket motors? This is such a small market and there’s no dealer network to allow people to walk into a local store for a swap.

Robert at AMW has no obligation to offer warranty exchanges for other CTI vendors. I thought it was a genuine gesture of good will. He has a lot on his mind after losing his wife/best friend/ business partner 10 days ago. If someone wants to wait on their dealer, go ahead.

"Most warrantees on products in all walks of life do not cover shipping." From my own experience, that statement is simply not true. I recently, within the last year, returned a LG TV for a warranty issue. LG sent a shipping box and UPS return shipping label at their expense and in addition returned a replacement at their shipping expense. Most recently, I returned a firearm to Ruger for a warrantied defect, using their supplied shipping process and label. Amazon's return and warranty also follows the same process. I could give further examples. However, I don't really believe it's necessary as the examples provided are factual.

You are correct: Robert has no obligation and I did not say or indicate such. Perhaps you just read my post wrong and misspoke. I have known Robert and Gloria for many years, at least 30 years + or -, and consider them friends. After all, they did start their business here on the East Coast, before moving out west.

Anything else John?

 

[Frederocket]

It is for any dealer to take a CATO and apply for replacement when they did not sell the original.

I agree with that also. Knowing Robert, that is not a surprise to anyone who knows him..

 

[tbonerocketeer]

As a prefect that has seen many failures from all three current high power AP motor producers. All three can have CATOs. Except a batch of 38s and one 54 single long reload from CTI, I have not seen a significant higher CATO from one manuafacturer to another. I will say that CTI and the dealers are easy to to get a replacement due to CATOs.

Weird, I see a significant difference in the numbers of catos by brand and I handle warranties for both.

 

[jsdemar]

"Most warrantees on products in all walks of life do not cover shipping." From my own experience, that statement is simply not true. I recently, within the last year, returned a LG TV for a warranty issue. LG sent a shipping box and UPS return shipping label at their expense and in addition returned a replacement at their shipping expense. Most recently, I returned a firearm to Ruger for a warrantied defect, using their supplied shipping process and label. Amazon's return and warranty also follows the same process. I could give further examples. However, I don't really believe it's necessary as the examples provided are factual.

You are correct: Robert has no obligation and I did not say or indicate such. Perhaps you just read my post wrong and misspoke. I have known Robert and Gloria for many years and consider them friends. After all, they did start their business here on the East Coast, before moving out west.

Anything else John?

Fred,
All of your examples are for non-hazardous products. And for mass marketed products.

Also consider returning a product to a small local hardware store that you bought at Home Depot. There might be exceptions but I bet you’ll get a cross eyed look!

I’ve known Robert for 30 years. I’ve seen your posts since rec.models.rocket. You haven’t changed.

 

[Frederocket]

Fred,
All of your examples are for non-hazardous products. And for mass marketed products.

Also consider returning a product to a small local hardware store that you bought at Home Depot. There might be exceptions but I bet you’ll get a cross eyed look!

I’ve known Robert for 30 years. I’ve seen your posts since rec.models.rocket. You haven’t changed.

I see you have nothing factual, relevant, and, of substance to add. That being said, years ago I purchased what I thought was an A/T K-1050. Upon trying to insert the igniter I realized the grain geometry was not a bates but that of a long grain K-250. A/T replaced the motor with a new K-1050. Return and replacement shipping was sucked by A/T. I bet if you look at rec.models.rocket archive you might find my positive comments and details of the issue.


You're right I haven't changed, I'm just the same old Fred. Like my dad used to say, "I don't have to smell BS, I know it when I see or hear it it".

 

[cerving]

I had a similar cato with a 54/2G J145 longburn skid. Robert replaced the hardware, I filed a MESS and claim with CTI. I haven't heard anything... but I have another J145 and I'm not going to hesitate to fly it. It can't cato like that twice, right?

 

[cwbullet]

Weird, I see a significant difference in the numbers of catos by brand and I handle warranties for both.

It is probably a volume and local issue/bias. You probably handle a much larger number. I have to admit that we have an 8-10 to 1 ratio of Aerotech and Loki to CTI over the past year.

 

[jsdemar]

Yay! Another addition to my ignore list.

Back to the original poster’s issue and question: fill out the CTI warranty form and send it to any CTI dealer. AMW has offered to handle the warranty regardless of where you bought the motor. They have the largest inventory and receive shipments from CTI on a regular basis.

You’re welcome to email me if you can’t get a response from AMW during this time due to Gloria’s passing.

 

[Frederocket]

Yay! Another addition to my ignore list.

We all have choices..

 

[Handeman]

"Most warrantees on products in all walks of life do not cover shipping." From my own experience, that statement is simply not true. I recently, within the last year, returned a LG TV for a warranty issue. LG sent a shipping box and UPS return shipping label at their expense and in addition returned a replacement at their shipping expense. Most recently, I returned a firearm to Ruger for a warrantied defect, using their supplied shipping process and label. Amazon's return and warranty also follows the same process. I could give further examples. However, I don't really believe it's necessary as the examples provided are factual.

You are correct: Robert has no obligation and I did not say or indicate such. Perhaps you just read my post wrong and misspoke. I have known Robert and Gloria for many years and consider them friends. After all, they did start their business here on the East Coast, before moving out west.

Anything else John?

I think what they mean is, the manufacture doesn't warranty for shipping damage. If that last TV that was sent to you was lost of damaged in shipping, the shipper would be liable and you would have to go through them for a replacement. If a manufacture cover loss or damage during shipping, that is a rarity.

 

[Frederocket]

I think what they mean is, the manufacture doesn't warranty for shipping damage. If that last TV that was sent to you was lost of damaged in shipping, the shipper would be liable and you would have to go through them for a replacement. If a manufacture cover loss or damage during shipping, that is a rarity.

May well be as you say. However, shipping carrier warranty is/was not the issue. Who is responsible for the cost of shipping of a warranty replacement is the issue. My contention is; "the customer, or for that matter the dealer, should not be on the hook for any shipping charges related to warranty replacement of motors or hardware, especially the customer".