Credit Cardit or Paypal ?
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WillMarchant
I'm a little bit soured on PayPal at the moment. I've been stiffed by vendors a couple of times now and PayPal's three week resolution period is too short, IMO. I should have blown the whistle on the deadbeats after 20 days. Anyway, I will use PayPal as a last resort but the credit card companies seem like they do a better job with problem resolution.
Rocketcrab
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PayPal - ANYTHING to stay away from high credit card interest rates, the biggest scam this side of the US medical system. 
It's a tough call for me. PayPal is very easy and fast, and when I am paying a known reliable vendor then I will use it. However if I am dealing with an idividual it isn't always safe.
Here is what happened recently using PayPal...
I made an Ebay purchase. The auction cost plus shipping was $22. I paid via PayPal. The individual did not ship the item. After three weeks I started a PayPal dispute.
The seller never replied to the dispute so after the requisite time period PayPal resolved the dispute in my favor. PayPal went into the sellers PayPal account and recovered only $5 (that was all that was in the sellers PayPal account apparently). PayPal then credited the $5 to my PayPal account. They then did something that really ticked me off. PayPal closed the dispute. That was it. They said we've done all we can do... No instructions on what I should do next, nothing... A ton of people got burned by the same person after me for much more money which I can only assume the never got back...
I then contacted my credit card company since I use my credit card to fund my PayPal account. I explained to them what happend and they credited me the remaining $17. The credit card company said they wouldn't even bother to go after PayPal of the individual since there was no money there.
So in the end it was my credit card company who took care of me. PayPal left me holding most of the bag.
PayPal leads you to believe that it's safe to uee them, but that isn't always the case.
Here is what happened recently using PayPal...
I made an Ebay purchase. The auction cost plus shipping was $22. I paid via PayPal. The individual did not ship the item. After three weeks I started a PayPal dispute.
The seller never replied to the dispute so after the requisite time period PayPal resolved the dispute in my favor. PayPal went into the sellers PayPal account and recovered only $5 (that was all that was in the sellers PayPal account apparently). PayPal then credited the $5 to my PayPal account. They then did something that really ticked me off. PayPal closed the dispute. That was it. They said we've done all we can do... No instructions on what I should do next, nothing... A ton of people got burned by the same person after me for much more money which I can only assume the never got back...
I then contacted my credit card company since I use my credit card to fund my PayPal account. I explained to them what happend and they credited me the remaining $17. The credit card company said they wouldn't even bother to go after PayPal of the individual since there was no money there.
So in the end it was my credit card company who took care of me. PayPal left me holding most of the bag.
PayPal leads you to believe that it's safe to uee them, but that isn't always the case.
tbzep
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Originally posted by Rocketcrab
PayPal - ANYTHING to stay away from high credit card interest rates, the biggest scam this side of the US medical system.
You don't have to deal with the high interest rates. Just don't spend more than you can pay off each month. Never carry over a balance to the next month and you are home free. It's the same principal as never overdrafting your checking account.
Some debit cards offer the same protection as credit cards. Look into that for the best of both worlds.
To use paypal long term, requires that you become "verified" by linking a checking account with a paypal account. It's not spelled out as such in the paypal terms, but paypal can withdraw money from your checking account as they see fit.
I'm uncomforatable with that. They could drain my checking account, and use my entire overdraft reserve. And they as if taking my money isn't bad enough, this would likely to cause me to bounce checks or not have sufficient funds for an automatic mortgage payment. Thus incuring bounced check fees from my bank and who I wrote the check to and probably ending up with it on my credit report.
A credit card is a "push" mechanism: I give them money so I am in control.
I only give access to my checking account to places I trust: my employer and financial institutions.
Glen, kc0iyt
WShoreRockets
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This is why I have a specific account JUST for paypal. I make a transfer from my regular checking to the paypal account, and when that transfer goes thru, THEN I pay with the paypal. And the transfers don't cost me anything, so...
PayPal is the way to go as far as I'm concerned, I'm not giving them my checking acct info.
I use a check card and I've not had a problem in the last 5 years.
Then again, I'm dealing with rocket people and reputable vendors.
Works for me
Mark T
I use a check card and I've not had a problem in the last 5 years.
Then again, I'm dealing with rocket people and reputable vendors.
Works for me
Mark T
Personally I don't care for paypal. I've had unauthorized transactions on my credit card twice due to data insecurity at paypal. They were small but annoying none the less....apparently they only take a couple of dollars from the compromised accounts in the hopes that people don't monitor their accounts very closely and will overlook a random $5.00 charge. My bank took care of it both times but after the hassle of two cancelled credit cards I avoid paypal.
CQBArms
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I hate paypal but am forced to use it due to vendors.
Here's the rub:
If you use your credit card only you ONLY have to deal with the vendor and your credit card company.
If you deal with paypal, and use a CC/debit card to back up the account (as many do) it's a much bigger PITA.
Simple answer, get a low balance credit card and only use it for online purchases. It's the safest thing you can do.
Here's the rub:
If you use your credit card only you ONLY have to deal with the vendor and your credit card company.
If you deal with paypal, and use a CC/debit card to back up the account (as many do) it's a much bigger PITA.
Simple answer, get a low balance credit card and only use it for online purchases. It's the safest thing you can do.
Gus
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Complete nonsense.
Everyone you've ever written a check to has your checking account number. But they can't clean out your account just because they know your numbers. Paypal can't just help themselves to your bank account as they see fit anymore than your employer can when you give them the same numbers so they can direct deposit your pay.
Giving your credit card number to an online vendor you've never dealt with before, however, is a huge risk, especially if they ask for the ID number on the back of your card.
The very best way to deal with online vendors is by using your credit card through Paypal. The vendor doesn't get your credit card number and if you get taken, you can always reverse the charge through your credit card company. In those cases, Paypal gets left holding the bag, which is why their preferred payment method is not via credit card.
I agree with the first part of this statement, but not the conclusion that PayPal gets stuck holding the bag. That was not the case in my situation.
I was stiffed by a seller and PayPal attempted to collect the money back from the sellers PayPal account. Since the seller did not have sifficient funds in their PayPal account, PayPal took the little bit that was there and then closed the case. I was out the remaining money as far as PayPal was concerned.
I called my credit card company and they refunded the remainder of the funds to me. The credit card company did not attempt to recover the funds from PayPal or the seller since the sellers PayPal account was empty.
The credit card company ate the loss not PayPal.
Gus
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I would be very surprised if that were the case.
When you ask a credit card company to reverse charges they ask you to prove you were stiffed. In Paypal cases they ask if you went through the Paypal resolution process and if, like in your case, Paypal found in your favor, then it's pretty much a slam dunk.
The credit card company then notifies Paypal that they intend to do what is called a "chargeback" unless Paypal can prove there is some reason they shouldn't. Paypal then begins a second round of your original complaint where they ask the original vendor why the credit card company shouldn't be allowed to do so. If the vendor doesn't answer or can't give Paypal some evidence they can use, then Paypal doesn't contest the chargeback and the credit card company debits Paypal the amount.
I would be extremely surprised if this didn't happen in your case.
If the bank which issues your credit card CAN get their money back they will. In the case of Paypal, that is never an issue.
Again, this is why Paypal doesn't let you just set "Pay by credit card" as your default option. There is risk to Paypal in these transactions. Paypal has much less risk if it is a cash transaction because if it goes bad, they just tell you they tried to get the money back from the vendor but the vendor's account was empty so you are S.O.L.
When dealing with online vendors I always use my credit card through Paypal if that is an option. If not, I only give my actual credit card number to those I can reasonably determine are a legitimate business. My bedrock criteria are "do they list an address and phone number on their site" and "do they answer the phone when I call".
On Ebay I buy almost nothing that doesn't let me pay with my credit card through Paypal because Ebay (and Paypal) "transaction guarantees" are a joke.
wwattles
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Actually, the credit card company's customers ate the loss, in the form of increased fees, rates, and penalties.
As for PayPal, I have never had a problem with them, whereas I *have* had a problem with my credit card company. I still use both, but prefer PayPal when it's available.
As for credit cards, companies can be as nasty as they want to be. A few years ago, I had bought something at the local Navy Exchange department store, shortly before I moved. It was a very small purchase (around $7) and I quickly forgot about it. The account statement never caught up with me, as I was being transferred several times in a short period. The first I knew of there being a problem was when I got my credit report and saw that there was a whole history of reports on that card, all stemming back to that one $7 purchase that was never paid. I contacted the Exchange, and they said that it was entirely my responsibility to keep them informed of my new address. (Yeah, it sounds good on paper, but in the real world, you've got so dang many people who all need to be "kept informed" that you're bound to miss one or two.) In the end, my credit record problem was marked as "paid" but all of the "late reports" stayed on the record. 3 years later, when I went to get a mortgage for buying a home, I was told that the large number of "late reports" lowered my credit score way, way, WAAAAAY down - to the point that it increased my rate by about 3 percent, and out of my affordability range. So a $7 charge on a credit card kept me from being able to buy a house years down the road.
WW
I have a love hate relationship with paypal..
Love the ease because I sell and buy stuff on the bay all the time.
Hate the politics of ebay.
I prefer the option to use paypal, but it does not help me decide between vendors. That said I did not order braided kevlar today because the vendors I found did not take paypal..
john
Love the ease because I sell and buy stuff on the bay all the time.
Hate the politics of ebay.
I prefer the option to use paypal, but it does not help me decide between vendors. That said I did not order braided kevlar today because the vendors I found did not take paypal..
john
OK Gus let me start with this - I'm an adult. I'm all grown up and I have my facts 100 percent straight. I find it a bit insulting that you would suggest that what I said happened didn't happen since I was the one who it happened to. I was the one who called the credit card company and spoke with them, and it happened exactly how I said it happened. Sorry if my results don't fit into your "Absolute" as to how these things play out.
You might want to ratchet down your "Absolute" retoric a bit, or deal with actual facts before spouting off.
Paypal can because you've authorized them to do so, just like when writing a check - you authorize that deduction.
My employer has the right to "reverse" transactions, so if they accidently deposit the CEO's check in my acount, they can reverse it.
There was a class-action lawsuit against paypal where the horror stories were submitted as depositions.
Glen Overby
Rocketcrab
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Originally posted by tbzep
You don't have to deal with the high interest rates. Just don't spend more than you can pay off each month. Never carry over a balance to the next month and you are home free. It's the same principal as never overdrafting your checking account.
Some debit cards offer the same protection as credit cards. Look into that for the best of both worlds.
I am quite aware of the fact that in a perfect world, if you don't carry a balance from one month to the next, you don't have to deal with high interest rates. Another way to get around those rates is to have a six- or seven-figure salary, be born into a family with money, or better yet, marry it. But alas, I'm one of those millions of people who live in the real world. My wife and I both work to support a family and between the two of us don't make six figures - and we're "professionals". I use my debit card as much as I can when cash isn't practical.
KermieD
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Wow. That was harsh. Actually, your bank/credit card company probably told you what they did to give you the impression that they're there for you and that they'll take the hit before it gets passed on to you. Gus' ducks are definitely in a row here and the process he described is 100% correct. I don't think in any way he was challenging what you were told, but the actual fact of the matter is, no. Your credit card company did not take the hit.
OK Gus's friend I'll dance with you too on this.
As for harsh - I was no more harsh than Good ole Gus telling me that what happened to me didn't happen.
Now as for yoru claim that Gus is 100% correct. You are as wrong as Gus. I was there. My credit card company took the hit.
I have been with my credit card company for twenty or so years. I have an outstanding interest rate. I pay my bills on time and have an excellent credit rating.
Perhaps that matters to my credit card company, and that's why they took care of it. Either way, they ATE it and they did NOT go after PayPal or the seller, and it did not happen as Gus or you said it did.
End of story. Sorry if that's harsh, but the truth is what it is... the truth.
rocket72175
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Boo-Hoo. Do you really think that class-envy whining is going to do you any good? In the real world (not government), people live within their means and don't buy things they can't afford.
JBeau
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Preach it, brother! Amen!
It's going to take generations of deliberate, painstaking unbrainwashing regarding using credit and credit cards. The banks have really trained the masses over the past 25 years into believing that borrowing money belongs in every transaction you do. It is so sad.
My wife and I got "deer in the headlights" serious 3 years ago when we realized we were $45,000 in consumer debt not including the mortgage.
I delivered pizzas for two years, we sold everything wasting space in the garage, made a budget every month (discovered $100s of dollars magically right there!) and got oout from under it at last summer.
Life is amazing with no credit cards and no debt to service. Back working just our normal jobs, we pay cash for everything and have access to our entire paychecks, something we hadn't experienced in 20 years of marraige.
It's a different life. we take vacations, we refurnished the entire house, refloored the house, two root canals, 3 luxury purchases and paying extra every month on the mortgage, ALL IN CASH, for the past year.
It's an amazing feeling. I recommend people consider it. It won't happen, not at all, no chance, no way, until you decide "enough is enough with sending banks/credit cards companies the first 60% of every dollar I make!"
We can do it, we really can, then we take our lives back, then we're less stressed and having more fun.
I recommend it highly.
BobH48
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I maybe taking a different approach here but I NEVER use my debit card for anything and I hardly use cash for anything either except at launches when Jim Flis has his booth open.
I live within my means and still use my credit card for nearly every purchase. This includes gas for the car, grocery shopping, and nearly every other place that I used to use cash. I rarely have more than $20 in cash with me at any time. Why, you may ask?
Because it saves me money. Everything I buy with my card, I would have bought anyways. I have the money put away. My paycheck and my wife's paycheck are direct deposited into a Money Market savings account and earn interest. When the credit card bill comes, I transfer the amount to my checking account and pay it.
The credit card company is lending me money, INTEREST FREE, for up to 50 days at a time and MY money is earning interest at the same time.
All I have to do for this free loan is pay off the balance in full every month.
In addition, I have a card that pays me cash back on all my purchases so in the last 2 years they have paid me an addtional $350 for the privilege of lending me money for free.
A side benefit is that charging and paying on time regularly has boosted my credit rating so that if I ever decide that I need a loan, I will get a better rate.
This method is not for everyone. I do not buy things that I don't have the money for just because I am using my card.
EDIT: I have not paid a nickel in interest to credit card companies in over 25 years.
I live within my means and still use my credit card for nearly every purchase. This includes gas for the car, grocery shopping, and nearly every other place that I used to use cash. I rarely have more than $20 in cash with me at any time. Why, you may ask?
Because it saves me money. Everything I buy with my card, I would have bought anyways. I have the money put away. My paycheck and my wife's paycheck are direct deposited into a Money Market savings account and earn interest. When the credit card bill comes, I transfer the amount to my checking account and pay it.
The credit card company is lending me money, INTEREST FREE, for up to 50 days at a time and MY money is earning interest at the same time.
All I have to do for this free loan is pay off the balance in full every month.
In addition, I have a card that pays me cash back on all my purchases so in the last 2 years they have paid me an addtional $350 for the privilege of lending me money for free.
A side benefit is that charging and paying on time regularly has boosted my credit rating so that if I ever decide that I need a loan, I will get a better rate.
This method is not for everyone. I do not buy things that I don't have the money for just because I am using my card.
EDIT: I have not paid a nickel in interest to credit card companies in over 25 years.
Gus
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"Good ole Gus" never said that what happened didn't happen.
What "Good ole Gus" said was that if that was the case he would be extremely surprised.
Because "Good ole Gus" is a grown up with a good credit rating, too.
And in "Good ole Gus's" experience banks generally behave in a bank-like fashion which means they go after people who unfairly take their money.
In fact, "Good ole Gus" has found banks fairly unvarying, dispassionate, and relentless in that regard.
Why your bank wouldn't charge back the transaction to Paypal when it was perfectly legitimate, logical, usual and customary for them to do so is what "Good ole Gus" (and his good friend Kermie) find so surprising.
Perhaps your bank really does think you're so special that they'd prefer to take the hit rather than getting their money back from Paypal.
Just surprises "Good ole Gus", that's all. Sorry that you were insulted.
Dave,
Do a search here on "Rebar Rocketry","Suziekrp", "Empire Rockets", or"UpNorthGuy" for some sad lessons about buying internet-traded items without the protection afforded by a credit card.
Most internet vendors are honest.
But if you continue to pay with money orders it is only a matter of time until you get ripped off.
CQBArms
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When you verify your account with PayPal ala your checking account you are authorizing them to use that as a secondary payment option. You default on a payment or do not pay, they can and will hit your account.
read the TOS pay close attention to the resolution items.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#insurance
But more the the point including pay pal in the dispute resolution chain may diminish your rights to other dispute resolutions.
PayPal is the vendor of record for all transactions:
"PayPal is the merchant of record with respect to all credit card transactions through the PayPal service to purchase goods or services."
So if you go to paypal and have a problem, they deny it (as they will FREQUENTLY do for eBay sales) they will then tell your credit card company they are the vendor of record and find no issue, and then your crdit card company will "cave" in most instances.
More so, if a buyer goes to his credit card company and disputes the charge outside of paypal, and the credit card company reverses the charge, PayPal is "held harmless" and you end up taking the hit.
Unless you have the worst credit card in the history of the planet, giving your credit card to a company online is no risk at all. Fraud protection is built in on most and you are responsible for $0 in most cases.
Can PayPal say the same thing, no.
read the TOS pay close attention to the resolution items.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#insurance
But more the the point including pay pal in the dispute resolution chain may diminish your rights to other dispute resolutions.
PayPal is the vendor of record for all transactions:
"PayPal is the merchant of record with respect to all credit card transactions through the PayPal service to purchase goods or services."
So if you go to paypal and have a problem, they deny it (as they will FREQUENTLY do for eBay sales) they will then tell your credit card company they are the vendor of record and find no issue, and then your crdit card company will "cave" in most instances.
More so, if a buyer goes to his credit card company and disputes the charge outside of paypal, and the credit card company reverses the charge, PayPal is "held harmless" and you end up taking the hit.
Unless you have the worst credit card in the history of the planet, giving your credit card to a company online is no risk at all. Fraud protection is built in on most and you are responsible for $0 in most cases.
Can PayPal say the same thing, no.
dwmzmm
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Gus, thanks for your concern and advice; I deal only with vendors
I know who have stellar reputations and honesty. Some of these
vendors have reciprocated their trust by sending me the stuff I
ordered before I even got my money order in the mail! Plus, where I live (Houston, TX area) we're blessed to have a number
of outstanding vendors in our area that I can usually deal with
them personally and, many times, face to face.
