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Your point is well taken. The Close In Weapon System (CIWS), which is this rotary 20mm cannon we have been talking about, is a “point defense” weapon. It is the last line of defense. That the cruise misse got that close to the destroyer is scary. I am glad the CIWS worked and that the crew of the USS Gravely is safe.*sigh*
I think we’re missing the point here. The story is about an attack on a U.S. Navy vessel that almost succeeded. The importance is explained in the article.
“The episode underscores the threat the Houthis continue to pose to US naval assets and commercial shipping in the Red Sea, despite multiple US and British strikes on Houthi infrastructure inside Yemen.”
That, the most essential takeaway, is correct. The details of the CIWS’s classification and caliber aren’t particularly important.
The article also goes on to explain the background of the conflict, how the cruise missile got so close, the implications of that, and the next steps that the Navy plans to take in light of this incident.
Overall grade: B+. Not perfect but all of the important bits appear to be in order.
Cannon vs Machinegun caliber is a blurred line with .50 cal/12.7mm being considered solidly a MG caliber and 20mm being solidly a cannon caliber. The largest MG calibers I know of are the 13mm MG 131 and the 13.1mm Hotchkiss, the smallest cannon caliber in standard use was the 15mm MG 151/15 which eventually was discontinued in favor of the MG 151/20 20mm.Well there is a Gatling gun as a component of the CIWS. Current terminology seems to use "gun" for .50 cal and under, and "cannon" for 20mm and bigger except that aren't these rotary things called "miniguns"? I wonder what the manufacturer calls it. It seems that these rotary things blur the lines though. (Do we call it "engine" or "motor"?)
As far as "machine gun"- the definition set forth by congress in the 1934 NFA says something like fires multiple cartridges for one pull of the trigger. Does the rotary gizmo in the CIWS even have a trigger? I guess it has a solenoid maybe. I always wondered how a real Gatling gun was classified- it doesn't have a trigger and requires cranking of the crank to make it keep firing.
Only if you can get it with the depleted uranium rounds.Every home should have one!
Hmmmm (looks at pitch blend sample)Only if you can get it with the depleted uranium rounds.
I attended a presentation on the CWIS system many years ago.CIWS: Captain, It Won't Shoot!
You are correct that a auto cannon is technically still a machine-gun, due to its method of function. The differentiation between cannon and machine-gun is one of caliber more than anything else you could scale up a Ma Deuce to 20mm and it would be a auto-cannon not a machine-gun even though its just a big M2.To play Devil's Advocate here for a sec:
A machine gun is any weapon that fires more than one projectile per activation of the triggering mechanism. Note that this does not include bump stocks or Forced Reset Triggers (FRTs). While the more *precise* description of the CIWS is "auto-cannon" it is still reasonably accurate to describe it as a machine gun. We've gone all goofy over the anti-gunners' proclivity to name any weapon other than a bolt-action or lever-action rifle as an "assault weapon" and likening it to a machine gun, that we forget that "machine gun" is an accurate description of a "fully-automatic" weapon, regardless of its nominal caliber or mechanism.
Don't mud-wrestle a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
My son is pleading for me to post this on this thread
or, for the even *shorter* version:
In the Godzilla movies where they are shooting at the monster with rifles, they need one of these.
Talk about a quick way to become holey...
As was discussed up thread over .50cal is pretty much considered cannon territory, I once read somewhere that the official line was 15mm but I don't know where I read it just that I was many many sleeps ago....How it goes. Breech-bolts slide on tracks.
Round bearing on the outside of the breech-bolt rides in angled channel on exterior casing.
Rotor spins and breech-bolts load and fire the rounds.
Rounds ejected.
Big mess made downrange.
On CIWS, empty rounds are not ejected onto the deck, they go back into the drum.
GE calls it an M61A1 or A2 Gatling Gun. I personally consider anything over .50 cal to be a "cannon."
I think that is WW2 terminology.
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Gun has replaced cannon in artillery for the most part....and guns used for artillery are considered to be 20mm or larger. Artillery is split into 2 classes Guns and Howitzers with Mortars being their own class. Guns are high velocity flat shooting, howizters are lower velocity (generally) with a more arcing shot for better indirect fire. The Navy has little need for Indirect fire USUALLY, hence they would use more weapons that would be classed as Guns under modern terminology. Guns tended to have longer range than Howitzers bore for bore size due to ballistics and better armor penetration against other ships, the Army on the other hand tends to employ more Howitzers as they need the indirect fire capabilities to shoot over hills, over defensive postions etc hence they use fewer Guns, though they did employ a number of them during the WW2 to Vietnam eras including the Nuclear Cannon and the 8" Self Propelled Gun aka 203mm SP Gun.Here’s another thing to consider: Naval convention is that even the big 16-inchers on the old battleships were called “guns”, not cannons or anything else. Would that apply to a modern rotary weapon mainly employed against aerial targets or is the 21st century so different that that convention is dropped?
Indeed they do, just to muddy things up....the Mk19 40mm fully automatic grenade launcher is also referred to in its field manual as a machine gun, and its well over .50 cal. so the terms are pretty arbitrary.Important to note that the Army itself in the field manuals it puts out describes the .50 as MACHINE GUN, caliber .50, Browning M2
https://archive.org/details/TM9-1005-213-10/page/n1/mode/1up
I think we can accurately document that is isn't a biological gun.you can call the rotary cannon a machine gun
I know it well, I had three Mark19s and 3 M2s in my smoke platoon when I was a platoon leader in Korea. I think as far as small arms goes, the key is that they are all belt fed to include the Mark 19. That’s the machine part of the gun.Indeed they do, just to muddy things up....the Mk19 40mm fully automatic grenade launcher is also referred to in its field manual as a machine gun, and its well over .50 cal. so the terms are pretty arbitrary.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-27/fm3-22-27.pdf
True, there is variability.I don't always find Wikipedia to be the most accurate
Mk19 was my primary mounted weapon, I received a brand new one in cosmoline to replace my M67 recoilless rifle. Primary dismounted weapon for me was the M60 machinegun. I was an MP we also received M16A2's at about the same time to replace our triangular handgaurd M16A1s. Mk19 Mod3 is an awesome weapon system, with a good spotter it was easy to place the second or third round on target at over 1500 meters, then fire for effect, usually it was fire..adjust...impact...fire..adjust...impact...repeat or fire for effect. One of my spotters was good enough to call the adjustment long or short before impact and roughly how much and usually how much left to right was covered in the first round.I know it well, I had three Mark19s and 3 M2s in my smoke platoon when I was a platoon leader in Korea. I think as far as small arms goes, the key is that they are all belt fed to include the Mark 19. That’s the machine part of the gun.
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