Chute size discrepancy.

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SRBell

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My kids are building a Super DX3 for DD. Looking at the supplied Madcow 36", looks a bit small for a 48oz rocket. Most calculators at 15f/s are saying to use a 50" (cd of .75), but manufactures like Wildman with the Recon chutes are saying 30" is overkill... Is the Recon just a way higher cd? If so, I'll just get one of those as it looks like a good chute. I guess a drogue for DD would be about 12"? Thanks!
 
I have a 30" fruity chutes iris for a rocket that weighs twice that plus motor hardware. The landing will be a little fast at 27ft/s but still ok, the iris chutes have a CD of 2.2 my daughter's mid power 19 oz rocket has a larger lower drag chute, so depending on your chute 36"may be fine.
 
There are also some differences in the way chute manufacturers measure "size" - best bet is to look at their descent rate charts to figure out if you have the right size per the manufacturer for the weight of your rocket.
 
I have collected a number of different size and types of chutes, and I usually decide which one to use at the launch. I simply use a quick link at the launch to do a quick swap based on the conditions. The chute size I decide on is based not just on the weight of the rocket and decent rate but also the wind conditions, size of the launch site, deployment altitude, and how hard the ground is...I don't like to damage the pretty paint job.

15f/s is not unreasonable for your main, barring the above. You can use https://www.rocketreviews.com/descent-rate-calculator.html to calculate your decent rate. There are many other calculators, even a Excel workbook that someone made, which is what I have but can't recall where I found it.
 
A lot has to do with the coefficient of drag (Cd) of the particular chute.

The Fruity Chute IRIS is advertised as a 2.2 Cd while most "flat" chutes are significantly less effective.

Going by the chute size alone may be a case of comparing apples to oranges.
 
I use a 36" top flight for my Super Batray(dry weight 48oz.), bringing it in at about 19 fps(on tall grass).
Rex
 
CD on WM recon chutes come in at 1.55. I just recently? They are high quality and similar to Skyangle chutes. Topflight chutes are between .750 and 1.34 depending on size. You could email Gary? I have the exact CD's saved somewhere? Fruity chutes offer the highest CD's but also the most expensive. Another option is Aerocon where you can pick up military flare chutes for under $12
 
I recommend trying to get a realistic final weight before you buy the chute. My 4" dual deploy DX3 is 84 oz without the motor. I use a 12" drogue and a 48" Fruity elliptical which yields an average of 17 fps.
 
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That's a good idea. Who knows what it's really going to weight lol. The idea was to have it light enough to fly with a G motor (no ebay). And with the ebay, I's. We'll see how that turns out. Thanks to everyone for all the CD numbers, I'll probably go with a recon when we have a weight. Looks like pretty good value.


I recommend trying to get a realistic final weight before you buy the chute. My 4" dual deploy DX3 is 84 oz without the motor. I use a 12" drogue and a 42" Fruity elliptical which yields an average of 17 fps.
 
The Fruity Chute IRIS is advertised as a 2.2 Cd while most "flat" chutes are significantly less effective.

I believe some of that high Cd comes from the fact that they measure the same chutes differently E.g. straight across the diameter rather than over the "hemisphere".
The smaller diameter in the drag equation being balanced by the higher Cd.

That's somewhat born out by the fact that a "larger" Spherachute packs into the same volume as a "smaller" fruitychute for example.

For a real apples to apples comparison the only way I've found is to pick two chutes for which each manufacturer states the same descent rate for a given weight.
 
One factor that seems to never get enough (or any) attention is landing surface. Where are you flying? or more importantly, where are you LANDING?

It seems as though all the "factory recommendations", charts, & calculations telling you what chute size you need are assuming best-case scenarios - meaning sod farms, nice cushy grass, or soft freshly tilled soil. But if you fly where I do - dry lake beds, sun-baked playa, desert plains, and such - you will quickly find that the recommended sizes are simply nowhere near big enough. Early in my rocketry life I went with recommended sizes (based on real/actual descent mass) and all too frequently saw damage on landings. This was, mind you, on rockets that many here would consider overbuilt and much "stronger" than necessary (at least where they fly).

I now upsize considerably on almost all my chutes - sometimes as much as double the "recommended" size. This of course makes packing much more challenging, but I'd rather spend more time flying and less repairing.

There are a lot of other factors/considerations when I'm choosing a chute size - wind conditions, available space, fin vulnerability, how important flight performance is, how far I'm willing to walk to recover, how "pretty" or costly the rocket is, etc. But in the end, landing surface tends to trump everything else to some degree, and I rarely find myself going with the recommended size, opting most of the time for bigger (or at least higher Cd). SLOW descent rates are good!

I also ended up making my own chutes, using VERY thin "calendered" ripstop and a high-Cd design. This allows me to shove "more chute" into a given available space, which helps a lot.

Another way of honing in on "just the right size" is to over-size, then fly successive smaller sizes until you find what you can get away with. This of course assumes you have a sizable fleet of chutes to choose from, which I've been fortunate enough to acquire over time.

s6
 
I believe some of that high Cd comes from the fact that they measure the same chutes differently E.g. straight across the diameter rather than over the "hemisphere".
The smaller diameter in the drag equation being balanced by the higher Cd.

That's somewhat born out by the fact that a "larger" Spherachute packs into the same volume as a "smaller" fruitychute for example.

For a real apples to apples comparison the only way I've found is to pick two chutes for which each manufacturer states the same descent rate for a given weight.

Fruity Chute attribute their 2.2 Cd performance to their, as far as I know unique to this hobby, toroidal (doughnut) shape, vs. the size or how the industry measures chutes. A quick email to Gene the owner of Fruity Chutes would certainly answer any questions you may have on his products.

I am a big fan of Fruity Chutes and have about a dozen of the Iris and classic elliptical chutes, and generally a 36 Iris compares in between the 42-48 classic elliptical. The quality of Gene's chutes is obvious if you have ever seen or held one both, in the workmanship and materials used. However as others said, you pay for it, so it's not a chute to get if you're on a budget.

If you're wondering about the spill hole, which I did, based on what I have read the spillhole is something that was developed to try to mitigate the chute from rocking back and forth (stability) as the canopy spills air out from side to side. I can tell you that on both the Iris and Classic Elliptical the spill hole does noticeably mitigate this effect but like most chutes it does not eliminate it. There are many designs that have stability as one of their goals, all with different results...bottom line is the choice you make is somewhat both application and user specific.
 
Yep, landing surface... Some if the descent rates I read about would ensure a broken recovery out here in CO.
 
Fruity Chute attribute their 2.2 Cd performance to their, as far as I know unique to this hobby, toroidal (doughnut) shape, vs. the size or how the industry measures chutes. A quick email to Gene the owner of Fruity Chutes would certainly answer any questions you may have on his products.

I am a big fan of Fruity Chutes and have about a dozen of the Iris and classic elliptical chutes, and generally a 36 Iris compares in between the 42-48 classic elliptical. The quality of Gene's chutes is obvious if you have ever seen or held one both, in the workmanship and materials used. However as others said, you pay for it, so it's not a chute to get if you're on a budget.

If you're wondering about the spill hole, which I did, based on what I have read the spillhole is something that was developed to try to mitigate the chute from rocking back and forth (stability) as the canopy spills air out from side to side. I can tell you that on both the Iris and Classic Elliptical the spill hole does noticeably mitigate this effect but like most chutes it does not eliminate it. There are many designs that have stability as one of their goals, all with different results...bottom line is the choice you make is somewhat both application and user specific.

I can attest to the quality of the Fruity chute units. I've got two 60" Iris Ultra compact chutes on a monster 1300 X8 multirotor (16kg) protecting a LIDAR payload. Didn't want to cheap out. With the kid's rocket, I figured I'd cheap out a little lol : )
 
My kids are building a Super DX3 for DD. Looking at the supplied Madcow 36", looks a bit small for a 48oz rocket.
The 48-oz number is for single-deploy. Putting an avbay in the rocket will probably increase the weight by at least six ounces. My SDX3 in DD mode comes down too hard on the 36" chute, I'd go the next size up. I'd also suggest a small drogue as the rocket likes to streamline nose-down if flown drogueless.
 
I believe some of that high Cd comes from the fact that they measure the same chutes differently E.g. straight across the diameter rather than over the "hemisphere".
The smaller diameter in the drag equation being balanced by the higher Cd.

That's somewhat born out by the fact that a "larger" Spherachute packs into the same volume as a "smaller" fruitychute for example.

I see this stated a lot but it isn't true. I chose my fruity chute iris because it packs substantially smaller than any other chutes with the same decent rate, including the elliptical fruity chutes. I researched this exhaustively since the iris was much more expensive and I wanted to make sure it was worth it.
 
I see this stated a lot but it isn't true. I chose my fruity chute iris because it packs substantially smaller than any other chutes with the same decent rate, including the elliptical fruity chutes. I researched this exhaustively since the iris was much more expensive and I wanted to make sure it was worth it.

I don't have anything against fruity chutes or any other manufacturer - just reporting the info posted on the actual sites:

60" Iris ultra does 19lb @ 20fps descent rate with packing volume 3.9"D x 5.1"L = 60"^3 and weighs 11oz
https://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/...a-60-standard-parachute-19lbs-20fps-p-87.html

60" Spherachute does 10lb @ 20fps but packs down to 3"D x 4.5"L = 30"^3 and weighs 5oz
84" Spherachute does 18lb @ 20fps (comparable to the 60" fruitychute) with packing volume ~57"^3 and weighs 7.2oz
https://spherachutes.com/chart.asp
https://spherachutes.com/volumeandweight.asp

So if you have an 18/19lb rocket (including fired motor weight etc) and want a 20fps descent rate you can buy a 60" fruity chute or an 84" spherachute and have them pack into the same volume with the Spherachute being a few ounces lighter.

I am certain that they are both great chutes but I simply don't see what the Cd of 2.2 gets you in terms of descent rate, packing volume or weight for a given rocket weight and the recommended chute size from each manufacturer for that weight.
 
I can attest to the quality of the Fruity chute units. I've got two 60" Iris Ultra compact chutes on a monster 1300 X8 multirotor (16kg) protecting a LIDAR payload. Didn't want to cheap out. With the kid's rocket, I figured I'd cheap out a little lol : )

Totally get it. Love the multirotor, do you have the MARS mini? I was looking at those as an option for rocketry.

I don't have anything against fruity chutes or any other manufacturer - just reporting the info posted on the actual sites:

60" Iris ultra does 19lb @ 20fps descent rate with packing volume 3.9"D x 5.1"L = 60"^3 and weighs 11oz
https://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/...a-60-standard-parachute-19lbs-20fps-p-87.html

84" Spherachute does 18lb @ 20fps (comparable to the 60" fruitychute) with packing volume ~57"^3 and weighs 7.2oz

Fruity Chute have a compact option, which costs more but it makes for a lighter package, packs smaller, and the shroud lines and bridal are just easier to handle. Gene only advertises this option on his Iris line however he has made me custom classic elliptical down to 24" with the compact option, you just have to send an email request.

60" Iris ultra does 19lb @ 20fps descent rate with Packing Volume: 3.9D x 3.2l: 38.2in^3 and weighs 6.8oz
https://https://fruitychutes.com/bu...-parachute-19lbs-20fps-12lbs-15fps-p-142.html
 
I have a Super DX3 DD that weighs just under 5lbs. on the pad. I use a 48'' Spherachute.
Gives me a pretty true descent rate based on their data charts and they pack very well in small payload compartments. I use them on 3 of my rockets. Great value for the money.
I have not yet tried a Fruity Chute but I'm sure I'll find an opportunity. I too found discrepancy with the 36 chute included with the Super DX3.
 
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Totally get it. Love the multirotor, do you have the MARS mini? I was looking at those as an option for rocketry.



Fruity Chute have a compact option, which costs more but it makes for a lighter package, packs smaller, and the shroud lines and bridal are just easier to handle. Gene only advertises this option on his Iris line however he has made me custom classic elliptical down to 24" with the compact option, you just have to send an email request.

60" Iris ultra does 19lb @ 20fps descent rate with Packing Volume: 3.9D x 3.2l: 38.2in^3 and weighs 6.8oz
https://https://fruitychutes.com/bu...-parachute-19lbs-20fps-12lbs-15fps-p-142.html

What he said.
 
The multirotor is using two Skycat launchers. If one totally fails, the remaining Iris will bring it down slow enough to save the LIDAR but it'll probably break the legs.
 
Totally get it. Love the multirotor, do you have the MARS mini? I was looking at those as an option for rocketry.



Fruity Chute have a compact option, which costs more but it makes for a lighter package, packs smaller, and the shroud lines and bridal are just easier to handle. Gene only advertises this option on his Iris line however he has made me custom classic elliptical down to 24" with the compact option, you just have to send an email request.

60" Iris ultra does 19lb @ 20fps descent rate with Packing Volume: 3.9D x 3.2l: 38.2in^3 and weighs 6.8oz
https://https://fruitychutes.com/bu...-parachute-19lbs-20fps-12lbs-15fps-p-142.html

Spherachutes now has the LT line with thinner calendared nylon that packs tighter and has perhaps a little more drag than the standard variety.
 
I have a Super DX3 DD that weighs just under 5lbs. on the pad. I use a 48'' Spherachute.
Gives me a pretty true descent rate based on their data charts and they pack very well in small payload compartments. I use them on 3 of my rockets. Great value for the money.
I have not yet tried a Fruity Chute but I'm sure I'll find an opportunity. I too found discrepancy with the 36 chute included with the Super DX3.

Spherachutes now has the LT line with thinner calendared nylon that packs tighter and has perhaps a little more drag than the standard variety.

Just hit the Spherachutes site, the product looks very similar to Fruity Chutes minus the bridal, they even have a top loop or webbing sewn into the spill hole for deployment bags which I like to use...at a glance they look like a premium product at good value!

Glenn were they the vendor at this past URRF.
 
I don't believe they were there Michael. I use them on my Super DX3 Talon 3 & Talon 4.
I fryed a TAC 1 on my Talon 4 during a ground test. It was packed too tight. Phoned Julie at Spheracutes and she sewed me a 60'' multi colored chute on the spot and fast shipped it to me in time for LDRS31. Got my Level 2 there with it. I Remember her for her great customer service and pleasant phone manner. Probably why I'm partial to them to this day.
 
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We all have our favorites. No problem with recommending chutes from the hometown guy.

FruityChutes gets my vote because the owner is a club member and he maintains a log of every chute he sells by chute serial number and buyer's name. What's not to like about that kind of dedication?

I have at least half a dozen of his chutes and a couple of drogues.
 
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