Cardstock Soyuz

[BobH48]

I was invited to give a talk on making paper (cardstock) rockets.

I gave my presentation at NEMROC last week for the third year in a row and then realized that I hadn't made a single new paper rocket since last year's NEMROC. Needless to say, I had to make a new one.

I went through my files to try and decide what to build. I had narrowed the choices down to a couple when I noticed on the Space-Paper-Models Yahoo group that a new 1:48 scale Soyuz was available.

The model is by Ton Noteboom and can be found here: https://jleslie48.com/

I started it a couple days ago and have the boosters almost done. I just need to put on the nozzles and fins but decided to wait til near the end of construction to add those details.

This is going to be a large model. The finished boosters are 16" tall by themselves without the nozzles.

 

[skippy-2]

I think your link is squiffy Bob.

Try here:


https://www.jleslie48.com

Ton's Soyuz is here:


https://www.jleslie48.com/ton_soyuz0711/


Great website.

 

[mike_bar]

Hi Bob,

Nice looking boosters. This looks like a great model. Ton does nice work.

I looked at the plans the other day. It looks like Ton was a bit sparse with the flying model rocket components. Which motor configuration will you use? Ton mentioned five D-motors in the Space Paper Models forum. I think he was joking, right?

I would love to make a model with drop off boosters. Maybe some day.

I will watch your build with great interest.

Regards,
Mike

 

[boris katan]

Bob,
This looks like a very cool build. Look forward to following the build thread and later seeing the rocket fly. Are you going to need nose weight for stability?

 

[BobH48]

Which motor configuration will you use? Ton mentioned five D-motors in the Space Paper Models forum. I think he was joking, right?

Mike, I was planning just a single 24mm mount with nothing in the boosters. Paper models tend to be very light so I can't imagine using 5 D's unless I don't want it back.

The problem is that there is only the D11-P available. There isn't any smaller plugged motors until you get down to A10-PT and I don't think it's worth the extra effort to add the motor tubes to the boosters just for them.

If it turns out heavier than I think it will, there is always the 24mm reload case.

Are you going to need nose weight for stability?

Boris, I'm certain that I will need some nose weight. I have a 13mm Soyuz that has at least 20 flights on it and is stable in any wind conditions so I will balance the big one at the same relative point. You would have gone for the 5 D's...right?

 

[kandsrockets]

Bob that is one sweet looking paper rocket. I am looking forward to seeing the finished rocket.

 

[BobH48]

I got a little more done on the Soyuz.

I'm using a different construction technique than I usually use.

Normally, for something large, I would make the tubes double thickness 110 lb. cardstock with double thickness couplers and treat it as regular body tube.

The problem with doing that for this model is the double tapered transition. There isn't any good way to reinforce the seams and if I open up the truss work then the ejection gasses will just vent out. So I am going to run a full length BT-50 up the center and attach the body tube pieces with centering rings.

Here are a couple of pictures of the body, so far.



View attachment Soyuz stage1.JPG

 

[dtomko]

Bob,

Looks fantastic. One D should be plenty to lift this.

Drew

 

[GuyNoir]

Any reinforcement to that truss structure at the bottom of the first stage (that will hold the boosters) or is that just cardstock?

I have one of these downloaded for printing and construction over the winter and want to know what good ideas to steal, I mean borrow!!!

 

[BobH48]

Any reinforcement to that truss structure at the bottom of the first stage (that will hold the boosters) or is that just cardstock?

I have one of these downloaded for printing and construction over the winter and want to know what good ideas to steal, I mean borrow!!!

I laminated it triple thickness which made it very difficult to cut out. I should have laminated it double thickness and soaked it in CA except for the surfaces that will glue to the boosters. Once the boosters are glued in place, it's going to be plenty strong enough.

 

[BobH48]

Bob,

Looks fantastic. One D should be plenty to lift this.

Drew

Drew,
I agree that a single D should be enough. I did put in an 'E' engine hook in case I want to try some E9's.

 

[jjnodice]

Bob,

Great looking model. At that size an E-9 flight would be majestic!

Jason

 

[BobH48]

I finally got around to working on this again and the first "gottcha".

I have been using centering rings on a BT-50 and all of the rings were glued where couplers were, so the stock at those points were double thickness.

The ring on the bottom transition of the second stage fit just beyond the coupler so it was where the stock was single thickness. I noticed that after the glue dried, it had shrunk enough to leave a slight raised impression of the ring. My first thought was to remove it and make another but decided to leave it as it's not too noticable.

I printed another copy of the 1st stage and used the gray booster material to line the inside of the 2nd stage top that will be seen through the trusses.

I used the rest of the sheet to laminate the 3rd stage double thickness as that is where the parachute compartment will be.

The 3rd stage is bigger than the top of the 2nd stage so I added an extra strip of cardstock to the coupler for a snug fit.

View attachment Soyuz stage2.JPG

View attachment Soyuz stage2 top.JPG

View attachment Soyuz stage3 bottom.JPG

View attachment Soyuz stage3.JPG

 

[Frank Claunch]

Bob, one of the best build threads on card model Rockets. The pictures realy are good and help out alot. Did you use a full 18" length BT-50 tube for the stuffer tube? Do you have any tips for making the nose cone on the boosters? I always have a hard time trying to make the point of the cone come out right.

 

[GuyNoir]

Hey, Bob!!

How's come your paper models look so nice and smooth, and mine turn out wrinkly in places? When you roll the tube from the sheet, how to you manage to avoid wrinkles and kinks in it? I've tried a couple of different methods and they all stink. .

 

[mike_bar]

Hey, Bob!!
How's come your paper models look so nice and smooth, and mine turn out wrinkly in places?[Snip]

Ah Mark,
You need to go to NEMROC and see Bob in person. Bob has an excellent paper rocket presentation for the conference. Very good stuff in person.
Regards,
Mike

 

[BobH48]

Bob, one of the best build threads on card model Rockets. The pictures realy are good and help out alot. Did you use a full 18" length BT-50 tube for the stuffer tube? Do you have any tips for making the nose cone on the boosters? I always have a hard time trying to make the point of the cone come out right.

Frank,
I started out with a 34" length of T-50 tube from BMS and when I got to the point where I wanted to make the parachute compartment, I just cut it off. I measured the cut off piece and it turned out the stuffer tube was 22.25" long.

Yes, the point of the cone is a big pain. I usually cut off the top 1/4" of the glue tab since you can't get it tucked in anyways. I also cut the tip of the point off in a semi circle. I take about 1/32" to 1/16" off. After the cone is rolled, the small piece removed from the tip isn't even noticed.

 

[BobH48]

Hey, Bob!!

How's come your paper models look so nice and smooth, and mine turn out wrinkly in places? When you roll the tube from the sheet, how to you manage to avoid wrinkles and kinks in it? I've tried a couple of different methods and they all stink. .

Bunny,

The paper you are using is one factor. I was using Hammermill 110 lb. cardstock and it's stiff and wrinkles easily. When my pack of it ran out I switched to Georgia Pacific 110 lb stock mainly due to the recommendation of Greg Poehlein here on TRF. It doesn't feel as thick but it is much easier to work with and it's a brighter white also. Thanks to Greg for the tip.

I have a piece of 1/2" thick foam that is left over from my R/C airplane days. It was used to wrap receivers and batteries to protect them from vibration.

I lay the body tube piece face down on the foam and roll a dowel back and forth over the piece until it is curled almost to the final shape. I use a 5/8" dowel most of the time but somtimes I use a 1/2" or 3/8" if I'm making a smaller tube. The tubes come out very smooth when I use this method. Just make sure the dowels you use are smooth also.

 

[GuyNoir]

I switched to Georgia Pacific 110 lb stock

Any particular store where you found this stuff? Or is it marketed under a particular brand name?

I have a piece of 1/2" thick foam that is left over from my R/C airplane days. It was used to wrap receivers and batteries to protect them from vibration.

I lay the body tube piece face down on the foam and roll a dowel back and forth over the piece until it is curled almost to the final shape. I use a 5/8" dowel most of the time but somtimes I use a 1/2" or 3/8" if I'm making a smaller tube. The tubes come out very smooth when I use this method. Just make sure the dowels you use are smooth also.

I'm pretty sure I've got some foam lying around here somewhere. I was rolling mine on self healing cutting matts, which have a little "give" to them, but I'll see how foam works. ..

Thanks for the tips!!

 

[billspad]

Ah Mark,
You need to go to NEMROC and see Bob in person. Bob has an excellent paper rocket presentation for the conference. Very good stuff in person.
Regards,
Mike

Assuming CMASS does NARCON in 2009 or 10 I'm sure we could persuade Bob to do his presentation. It's worth waiting for.

 

[Frank Claunch]

Bob,
Thanks for the tips. Hope to get to see one of your presentation some day.

Have you seen surfduke's 1/48 scale Mercury Atlas paper flying rocket at https://www.mos95b.com/surfduke/-Mercury/ . Not to inpose on you but I would realy like to see you do a build thread on it. Maybe some other would to.

Thanks again for the tips

 

[Frank Claunch]

Narprez,
I just got back from Wal-Mart. They sell Georgia Pacific 110 lb card stock.

 

[BobH48]

...Have you seen surfduke's 1/48 scale Mercury Atlas paper flying rocket at https://www.mos95b.com/surfduke/-Mercury/ ....

Yes, I have seen this and have it downloaded.

I download every paper rocket file I find and have well over 150 of them in the queue. Deciding what to build is probably the most difficult part.

 

[Frank Claunch]

Bob,
I am like you ,I have all these paper scale models that I would like to build for flying, but I don't have the experence to convert them to flying models. That's why I am following this thread closely.

 

[BobH48]

Assuming CMASS does NARCON in 2009 or 10 I'm sure we could persuade Bob to do his presentation. It's worth waiting for.

Well, you could use the "persuasion method" that was used for this years NEMROC.

I decided to give the presentation again this year after I saw that it was already on the published schedule. :surprised:

 

[BobH48]

It's a good news / bad news sort of day for this project.

First the bad news.

We had Thankgiving at our house yesterday and sometime during the day, someone let the cats into the basement. Cats love to explore and sit in boxes and there was a box with the boosters in it.

One of the boosters was flattened in half and there is no way to straighten it out and not have the damage obvious. The other 3 either had no damage, or what they did have was on the backside and won't be visible when they are glued in place.

The damage is confined to the large conical section and if that's all I have to replace, it's not too bad BUT I changed brands of cardstock part way through this project and the boosters were made from the old stock and the new stock is much whiter. It's enough whiter to be noticeable so I either have to find a piece of the old stock for a new booster or make 4 new booster sections. The bottom sections can be reused but I would need 4 of the cones for the tops since they are white also.

 

[BobH48]

The good news is that I managed to build a little more before I found the booster damage.

The third stage is going to be the parachute compartment so I built the transition up to the capsule cover and added a double thickness coupler that will be the "nose cone shoulder". The rest of the top will be built using my old method of double thickness tubes without centering rings.

I added the next 3 sections to the transition and that's where I left off for now.

View attachment Soyuz coupler.JPG

View attachment Soyuz cover trans.JPG

 

[billspad]

Well, you could use the "persuasion method" that was used for this years NEMROC.

I decided to give the presentation again this year after I saw that it was already on the published schedule. :surprised:

At least you won't be surprised this time.

 

[Rocketcrab]

Bob,
Thanks for the tips. Hope to get to see one of your presentation some day.

Have you seen surfduke's 1/48 scale Mercury Atlas paper flying rocket at https://www.mos95b.com/surfduke/-Mercury/ . Not to inpose on you but I would realy like to see you do a build thread on it. Maybe some other would to.

Thanks again for the tips

I looked at the Mercury-Atlas and was very impressed. But did I miss something? The instructions I downloaded didn't finish up the "how to make this fly" part.

 

[GuyNoir]

Narprez,
I just got back from Wal-Mart. They sell Georgia Pacific 110 lb card stock.

Thanks. I pulled out my pack of cardstock. It's "Wausau Exact Index" listed at 110 lbs. Anyone here used that stuff?