CAD for desining rockets

[Rocketeer123]

Hello. I have a lot of experience designing rockets in open rocket. However, I want to move on to a CAD program like grab cad or solidworks for rockets. I plan to 3-D print some. What are the best programs, and would I still have to model them for stability and aerodynamics in open rocket? Thanks.

 

[lakeroadster]

I use an old copy of Autodesk Inventor Pro. But yes, I first model and sim the rocket in Open Rocket, then build the solid model in Inventor.

When I start building the rocket I tweak the Open Rocket model based on the actual as built components.

During my career as a M.E. (1981 - Present) I've used both (Autocad) Inventor and Solidworks. They are both great programs. I just naturally gravitate toward Autodesk products because we both grew up together, so to speak.

 

[Rocketeer123]

Did you use the autodesk to 3d/or build print the model?

 

[lakeroadster]

Did you use the autodesk to 3d/or build print the model?

I don't have a 3d printer. But I know it can easily be done.

 

[dr wogz]

Autodesk's Fusion 3D is free for home & hobby use, although it is limited..

All the high end CAD systems do have a fairly steep learning curve, as there are concepts some find hard to grasp.

There are other 'hobby minded' ones out there, and some are free, TinkerCAD for one..

Pop over to the '3D printing' forum for more CAD talk..

 

[Fattbank64]

FreeCad has a Rocket Workbench module.

 

[Dustin Lobner]

The freeCad rocket module didn't seem all that good for designing things to be 3D printed.

I use Solidworks, I have a home use license for it yet. It's a great program, fairly intuitive. They've done away with home use licenses, but if you join the EAA you get a free student license for SW. EAA is a great organization too, and it beats $5k for a license.

 

[OverTheTop]

I like SolidWorks, but we have switched to Siemens NX now at work. At least it integrates better with their electrical CAD environment. Something else to learn.

 

[Dustin Lobner]

I like SolidWorks, but we have switched to Siemens NX now. At least it integrates better with their electrical CAD environment. Something else to learn.

Is that available free?

 

[OverTheTop]

I have not seen an NX in the pirate market. I have seen pirate SW around though.

 

[Dustin Lobner]

I have not seen an NX in the pirate market. I have seen pirate SW around though.

Not even looking to pirate...my SW license is legit, it's just that when my computer dies, I lose the license because they aren't doing new ones. ...and yes, running 2 drives mirrored, plus a full image backup, lol.

Another good example is getting SW when you join the EAA...

 

[lakeroadster]

Not even looking to pirate...my SW license is legit, it's just that when my computer dies, I lose the license because they aren't doing new ones. ...and yes, running 2 drives mirrored, plus a full image backup, lol.

Another good example is getting SW when you join the EAA...

For $40 a year... EAA membership seems like a great deal. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[vcp]

I used to always remind that veterans can get a copy of SolidWorks for $20. That's for a 1-year license for a Student Edition that includes just about everything. But last year I went to renew my license (after my last edition had timed out), and it took them almost two months to respond to my request (covid-related problems, I expect). I decided that I didn't ever want to be at the mercy of a potential dead license, so I bought Alibre. It's mine; I own it; it will work forever (or at least until some OS update kills it), and I never have to rely on some on-line component or the whim of some company changing their licensing agreement.

 

[Dustin Lobner]

I used to always remind that veterans can get a copy of SolidWorks for $20. That's for a 1-year license for a Student Edition that includes just about everything. But last year I went to renew my license (after my last edition had timed out), and it took them almost two months to respond to my request (covid-related problems, I expect). I decided that I didn't ever want to be at the mercy of a potential dead license, so I bought Alibre. It's mine; I own it; it will work forever (or at least until some OS update kills it), and I never have to rely on some on-line component or the whim of some company changing their licensing agreement.

Awesome... In my situation, with the home use license, they can't kill it remotely unless I try to update it or somehow connect to their servers, so I'm forever using SW 2019, lol.

How does Alibre work compared to SW? How's the learning curve?


EDIT: Alibre is on sale right now for $150 for a home license....

 

[Rocketeer123]

To be clear though, in solid works for example you can design the rocket but can you determine stability and such like open rocket does?

 

[Dustin Lobner]

To be clear though, in solid works for example you can design the rocket but can you determine stability and such like open rocket does?

No - it's a general purpose CAD program for modeling mechanical things.

 

[JP Johnston]

Yes, you can find NX in the bootleg department. SolidWorks 2012 thru 2022 is available in that market as well.

 

[Meatball 1]

As someone who uses Siemens NX for my day job (since 2015) for both 3D modeling and drafting, I would not recommend it for hobby users. As for parametric programs, NX is one of the big three at the high-end, along with CATIA and PTC Creo Elements/Pro. Supposedly the mid-range packages are Solidworks, Siemens Solid Edge, and Autodesk Inventor. Programs like Autodesk Fusion 360 and Alibre are the lower-end options meant to be more readily accessible without the heavy price tag, but they're probably going to have fewer advanced modeling and drafting tools. Obviously there are a lot of other miscellaneous packages not mentioned, and there's a lot of crossover in the way that companies use these various packages or even the others not listed here that may also make the high/mid/low cost breakdown not simple.

For my hobby stuff currently, I still use TurboCAD Platinum (though my last license purchase was 2016). It's mostly not parametric, so it's in a different category (more akin to AutoCAD than the others), but it is handy for CAD-based 2D graphics and creating drawings, and is certainly very usable for 3D (I've been using it for 20 years. It was also the CAD program John Pursley used for 3D modeling), but the lack of 3D parametric capabilities can be a real hindrance--though I enjoy it still and intend to upgrade to the latest version one of these days when the budget allows.

If I were to start out fresh with cost not a factor, I'd probably go for Inventor--I really enjoyed using that interface for both modeling and drafting in 2011 when I used it as a student (you can see two examples of what I did with it on my CAD portfolio page). But due to cost, I would probably try out Alibre first. I have tried Fusion 360 and did not particularly like it for various reasons. If a student license is available to someone for Solidworks or Inventor, it might be worth going that way. I am not able to do the student license thing since my hobby stuff also crosses over into business territory.

Josh T.

 

[Rocketeer123]

Meatball do you use the CAD to 3d print or design the rockets? How do you determine if they are stable?

 

[Dustin Lobner]

Not to answer for meatball, but I design the parts that need to be 3D printed in CAD, and then also build the rocket in RockSim for stability and the like.

 

[OverTheTop]

I use Solidworks, I have a home use license for it yet. It's a great program, fairly intuitive. They've done away with home use licenses, but if you join the EAA you get a free student license for SW. EAA is a great organization too, and it beats $5k for a license.

What a great tip. Thanks. I might have to add that membership to my AIAA and RAeS. I might try it for a year and see how it works out.

 

[caveduck]

For 3D printing I like OnShape. Free as long as you're willing to have your designs public, and all browser based with really blistering speed compared to Fusion360. You also don't need a tricked out computer for OnShape. They got acquired a few months ago though, so there's some risk their license model may change. If I need CAM for machining then I have to use F360 but I really don't like it as well.

If you want really great lighting effects and texturing, check out Blender. Free and open source, but it's a huge package and has a steep learning curve.

I hope that someday some motivated group will write a flight sim plugin for one of the better known CAD systems.

 

[Dan Griffing]

I use an old copy of Autodesk Inventor Pro. But yes, I first model and sim the rocket in Open Rocket, then build the solid model in Inventor.

When I start building the rocket I tweak the Open Rocket model based on the actual as built components.

During my career as a M.E. (1981 - Present) I've used both (Autocad) Inventor and Solidworks. They are both great programs. I just naturally gravitate toward Autodesk products because we both grew up together, so to speak.

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During my engineering career (bs chemical engineering, 1973, 1974-2015) I’ve worked alongside MEs with SolidWorks, and EEs with Altium.

I’ve only recently evaluated the free version of Fusion 360 to replicate the part design of my Level-3 Extreme Wildman rocket kit.

But I’ll now have to fork over $400 to manipulate these parts and do 3D exploded assembly diagrams and the like.

Before getting more committed to Fusion 360 what are my alternatives. 3D Cad for rocketry isn’t worth spending 5 grand.

 

[lakeroadster]

During my engineering career (bs chemical engineering, 1973, 1974-2015) I’ve worked alongside MEs with SolidWorks, and EEs with Altium.

I’ve only recently evaluated the free version of Fusion 360 to replicate the part design of my Level-3 Extreme Wildman rocket kit.

But I’ll now have to fork over $400 to manipulate these parts and do 3D exploded assembly diagrams and the like.

Before getting more committed to Fusion 360 what are my alternatives. 3D Cad for rocketry isn’t worth spending 5 grand.

I think Dustin Lobner provided a great option in his reply above. I'll quote it below:

Not even looking to pirate...my SW license is legit, it's just that when my computer dies, I lose the license because they aren't doing new ones. ...and yes, running 2 drives mirrored, plus a full image backup, lol.

Another good example is getting SW when you join the EAA...

For $40 a year... EAA membership seems like a great deal. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dan Griffing]

I think Dustin Lobner provided a great option in his reply above. I'll quote it below:

Special “gimmicks” like offering low cost student discounts to non-students can’t be counted on as permanent policies on which to make a long term commitment.

 

[lakeroadster]

Special “gimmicks” like offering low cost student discounts to non-students can’t be counted on as permanent policies on which to make a long term commitment.

Well then, belly up to the bar my friend, and lay out the cash.

Nothing in this world is permanent, as it relates to computers and software. Want permanent... Buy a drafting table.

 

[Dustin Lobner]

Special “gimmicks” like offering low cost student discounts to non-students can’t be counted on as permanent policies on which to make a long term commitment.

What I brought up is a path to a well known, well liked software package that involves zero piracy. That's it.

Someone else suggested Alibre. I looked into it, looks good. On sale for $150 right now for a permanent license that you always have. Less gimmicky perhaps, try that?

 

[RCBrust]

It's already been mentioned but I'll say it again. OnShape. Go to onshape.com and sign up for free. Nothing to install and you can access it from any web browser.

As a bonus, search for "estes" in the public files and you'll find all kinds of nice surprises.

Randy

 

[Dan Griffing]

Well then, belly up to the bar my friend, and lay out the cash.

Nothing in this world is permanent, as it relates to computers and software. Want permanent... Buy a drafting table.

Well thanks for the snark.

Many of us spend over $200 per motor reload, so spending twice that amount for a 3D CAD package that does the job is no problem.

I just don’t want to pick something because its free now, only to have that deal that was too good to be true, go away after I’ve invested a lot of time with it.

It was a similar situation with RockSim versus Open Rocket and I’m quite satisfied now with RockSim10.

 

[user 30299]

I've been using AutoCAD software since 1997. Use it for my work and my hobbies. It's great software. But for the last year or more AutoDesk has been trying to "buy back" my software packages because they are "buy once and use forever", and the full software packages reside on my computers. Their new licensing arrangement takes that away. The monthly/yearly fee structure is a bit of a financial bite (annoyance too) on small businesses (like mine) - and I cannot see a hobbyist being able to justify the expense. I also work in parts of the US and overseas that either have sketchy or no Internet access, so cloud-based systems are pretty much DOA. So if I was to look for a replacement software package I think I would consider Alibre. I have only experimented with it, and I know a couple of individuals that use it. It's a respectable program, been around for years, fully supported, price is reasonable, only buy once, download and done. Simple is good.