Bad experience with Performance Hobbies

[geof]

Below is a verbatim transcription of my entire correspondence with
Mr. Ken Allen at Performance Hobbies (www.performancehobbies.com).
Some posts on TRF about this company have been positive, but my
experience was negative. You should form your own opinion.

I've had positive experiences with many other vendors, including
Aerospace Specialty Products, Fliskits, Hobbylinc, Balsa Machining
Service, Al's Hobby Shop, BRS Hobbies, and A2Z Hobbies.

Geof



[Note: I completed my shopping online at Mr. Allen's website on 4/1.]
=====================
4/1

Thank you for your order from Performance Hobbies.


2 $12.95 Aerotech Class C RMS Reload Kits,G33J $25.90
1 $23.00 Semroc Kits,Hydra VII $23.00
Shipping - $6.95
Total - $55.85

Thank you for your order. We appreciate your business and look
forward to serving you

======================
4/5

I couldn't find my recent order on my credit card
activity list. Have you shipped it?

======================
4/5

Hi Geof:

I'm waiting on a Hydra kit from Semroc. I ran out.

Should be a few more days.

Thanks for inquiring.

Ken

======================
4/11

Ken,

Any news? It has now been 10 days since I ordered items listed
as "in stock" on your webpage. Considering the delay, are you
still going to charge me shipping?

Geof

PS. The Semroc Hydra VII still appears as "In stock and ready
to ship!" today on your website. Unless you've got them back
in stock, you should correct that.

======================
4/11

Actually Geof:

The kit is being shipped directly from Semroc. Since
I'm eating the shipping cost from them to you, I think
I'd rather cancel the order than eat the shipping from
two sources. I'm not gettin' rich in this business.

Ken

======================
[Note his willingness to cancel the order.]
======================
4/11

I understand. But in that case, why didn't the motors ship
last week, and has Semroc shipped yet? Thanks.

G

======================
4/11

Hi Geof:

I also forgot to ask you what delay you want on these
motors. They're available in 5 and 7 second delays.

This is also mentioned on the website. Let me know
and they'll ship tomorrow.

Thanks,

Ken

======================
4/11

5 second delay. Sorry, I thought I specified that with the order.

======================
4/11

No problem.

G's will ship tomorrow.

Thanks,

Ken

======================
[Note: After thinking about this for a while, I realized that I would
still be receiving only half the order if Mr. Allen followed through
the next day, with the Semroc portion uncertain. I decided to try
another vendor.]
======================
4/11

Ken,

Upon reflection, I'm uncomfortable with how long it has taken to
prepare this "in stock" order, and as I understand that nothing has
shipped yet, I hereby cancel the entire order. Would you please
confirm cancellation? I'll check my credit card records in a couple
days to ensure that everything is kosher. Sorry for the runaround...I
guess this has been a headache for both of us. Maybe some other time.

Geof Givens

PS. I'm emailing from a different account due to change from work to
home. Confirmation to either email address will be fine. Thanks.

======================
4/12

Some other time?? How about no other time.

You're an impatient little twit. You did'nt give me
all the information necessary to fill your order. I'm
not interested in dealing with problematic drama
queens like yourself.

I'll gladly give you a refund.

======================
[Note: I thought I had selected the ejection delay when filling my
electronic shopping cart. So I went back and checked. Mr. Allen's
website does not permit the online choice of a delay- I completed his
web shopping process precisely as he had it set up. Only when I began
pestering him after 10 days did he raise the question of the ejection
delay--he never inquired about this of his own initiative when the
order was placed. Even today the Semroc kit is still listed at
performancehobbies.com as "In stock and ready to ship!".]

 

[BobH48]

Originally posted by geof
The kit is being shipped directly from Semroc. Since
I'm eating the shipping cost from them to you......

Semroc offers FREE SHIPPING so how is that effecting his shipping costs?

 

[WShoreRockets]

I'm trying to figure that out myself.

Heck, I could have Semroc send the Hydra right to your door, from their site, and not to me first.

Oi vey.

Bob

 

[geof]

Thanks guys. Being an impatient little twit, I've ordered directly from Semroc this morning.

G

 

[loopy]

Oh, stop it you problematic little drama queen.

That's amazing - I can't believe a vendor would be like that towards a customer. I don't care if it was your fault, his fault, sunspots, or El Nino, a mistake was made, and the vendor should do what he can to fix it.

 

[UncMikesRktShk]

Originally posted by WShoreRockets
I'm trying to figure that out myself.

Heck, I could have Semroc send the Hydra right to your door, from their site, and not to me first.

Oi vey.

Bob

Look what this Performance guy told this customer was WAY out of line for sure, but lets get our facts about Semroc vendor orders.

Yes right to your door if all you needed was one Hydra VII and ordered it as a customer of Semroc. If your a vendor where is the rest of your minimum vendor order going?

Yes you can get free shipping as a Semroc Vendor, which Im guessing performance hobbies is. You must however meet the minimum order for a vendor. And 1 Hydra VII is not enough to get a minimum vendor order.

As a Semroc vendor you should know all this.

Now that being said, I have heard of nasty customer service replies but this one has to be #2 or 3 in the online rocketry vendors annuals.

[/b]

 

[Reed Goodwin]

This is odd. That doesn't sound like Ken. It's usually better to order via phone with him as he travels a lot and as misunderstandings can be figured out quicker. That really is unusual, though.
Reed

 

[Hospital_Rocket]

Ken is absolutely first rate as a launch site vendor (a bit disorganized I will admit, however he was always good). I have a sad feeling geof got caught up in something else that if you are in the appropriate circles would be aware of. I will not gossip beyond saying a customer service episode might rate low on his list of priorities about now.

Not an excuse for his response, however he has always been a good guy.

 

[starpilot]

In my humble opinion there is NEVER an excuse for bad customer service EVER.

Regardless of the circumstances, your customer is your bread and butter and without customers, you don't have a business period.

I understand that life can, and will get in the way from time to time, but you had better be able "turn it off" when dealing with your customers, or let someone else deal with them until you have things under control again.

Just my $.02 worth....

 

[TWRackers]

Thanks guys. Being an impatient little twit, I've ordered directly from Semroc this morning.

Oh, stop it you problematic little drama queen.

Hey, those are great! We can add the following to our lexicon of webspeak, right up there with IMHO, BTW, and ROFLSHMESBAIGTH.

• PDQ - problematic drama queen
• ILT - impatient little twit

Should be big timesavers in future posts .

 

[WShoreRockets]

Originally posted by UncMikesRktShk
Look what this Performance guy told this customer was WAY out of line for sure, but lets get our facts about Semroc vendor orders.

Yes right to your door if all you needed was one Hydra VII and ordered it as a customer of Semroc. If your a vendor where is the rest of your minimum vendor order going?

Yes you can get free shipping as a Semroc Vendor, which Im guessing performance hobbies is. You must however meet the minimum order for a vendor. And 1 Hydra VII is not enough to get a minimum vendor order.

As a Semroc vendor you should know all this.

Now that being said, I have heard of nasty customer service replies but this one has to be #2 or 3 in the online rocketry vendors annuals.

Well, to respond to this, it would have to get into private business practices, and I'm really not prepared to do that.

But I do agree, this is a nasty one. One of the worst I've heard. I would just eat it to keep the customer happy, if nessesary. I have done that in the past, and will probably do so again, just to keep my customers happy.

Bob

 

I have also experienced that same attitude from Ken and will no long buy from him. Which is tough because he is the onsite vendor at our local HPR launches.

I had called Ken to order a flight computer. He did not have in stock at told me he would get back to me on the delivery date. A week went by and no call from Ken. So I called and left a message. Seveal days went by and no returned call. I called again. Well, I followed this same routine for about 3 weeks. Each time reducing the number of days between my calls. No replys from Ken.

After about a month of this I called one last time leaving a message to cancel the order. I then told Ken he needed some customer service training. This time he returned my call. I had left the office, so he left a message with me. The message was extremely rude, with Ken screaming into the phone. He told me he did not care about my current or future business, and that I need to learn something about Customer Service.



I then discovered Wildman. Enough said!!!


Alan

 

[geof]

Alan started a new thread along the same lines. I enclose his message here for archival purposes. You can find the other thread at https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26096

Same Here

I have also experienced that same attitude from Ken and will no long buy from him. Which is tough because he is the onsite vendor at our local HPR launches.

I had called Ken to order a flight computer. He did not have in stock at told me he would get back to me on the delivery date. A week went by and no call from Ken. So I called and left a message. Seveal days went by and no returned call. I called again. Well, I followed this same routine for about 3 weeks. Each time reducing the number of days between my calls. No replys from Ken.

After about a month of this I called one last time leaving a message to cancel the order. I then told Ken he needed some customer service training. This time he returned my call. I had left the office, so he left a message with me. The message was extremely rude, with Ken screaming into the phone. He told me he did not care about my current or future business, and that I need to learn something about Customer Service.

I then discovered Wildman. Enough said!!!


Alan

 

[geof]

The thread Alan is referring to is this one:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26092
entitled "Bad Experience with Performance Hobbies". This is obvious at the moment, but in a year people searching through the archives would be confused.

 

[KermieD]

Merged the two discussions.

 

[WShoreRockets]

Originally posted by skip_dye
I have also experienced that same attitude from Ken and will no long buy from him. Which is tough because he is the onsite vendor at our local HPR launches.

I had called Ken to order a flight computer. He did not have in stock at told me he would get back to me on the delivery date. A week went by and no call from Ken. So I called and left a message. Seveal days went by and no returned call. I called again. Well, I followed this same routine for about 3 weeks. Each time reducing the number of days between my calls. No replys from Ken.

After about a month of this I called one last time leaving a message to cancel the order. I then told Ken he needed some customer service training. This time he returned my call. I had left the office, so he left a message with me. The message was extremely rude, with Ken screaming into the phone. He told me he did not care about my current or future business, and that I need to learn something about Customer Service.



I then discovered Wildman. Enough said!!!


Alan

Ok, I'm going to assume (yeah, I know what assume means ) that all of the above is accurate and true, for the purposes of this discussion.

Now, that said, this is something that has to be the worst customer service I've ever heard of. When you go into business, you expect to occasionally eat an order to keep your customers happy. Expecially in a business like this one, where it is a rather limited customer base, and loyal return customers are hard to come by. You just don't do this.

 

[geof]

Originally posted by geof
Thanks guys. Being an impatient little twit, I've ordered directly from Semroc this morning.

G

10:10 Order placed online
10:11 Semroc emails to say "order confirmed"
10:13 Semroc emails to say "processing"
12:35 Semroc emails to say "ready to ship"
2:31 Semroc emails to say "order shipped"

Wow. That's pretty good. If the package is on my doorstep when I get home from work today, I'm buying a beer for everyone on TRF and *two* beers for BobH48!

Geof

 

[m85476585]

Originally posted by skip_dye
I then discovered Wildman. Enough said!!!

I had a similar experience with Wildman, but not as bad. I had ordered a 29/120 complete motor, a 29/180 case only, and a Deuces Wild. The order shipped, but when I opened the box there was a 29/120 complete motor and a 29/180 complete motor, and no Deuce. The Deuce was out of stock and they automatically refunded it, but it took them forever (2 or 3 phone calls and a few weeks) to refund about $40 for the extra closures so I could ship them back. The Deuce never came, so I cancelled that part and ordered it from Fliskits.

 

Not sure what I did wrong earlier. Maybe I "clicked" NEW THREAD instead of POST REPLY. iwha

Anyway, my experience with Ken was in Jan/Feb 2005. It is my understanding Ken's opportunities are more recent.

Alan

 

[Donaldsrockets]

My last dealing with Ken wasn't too bad. I had ordered an H220T reload from him and got it in a reasonable time frame.

But after reading this, I most likely will not be dealing with him anytime soon. ATF problems aside, he should not be treating his customers that way. If he's afraid of the ATF, he might as well stop selling motors.

If he ever acted that way towards me, I would send him a reply telling what he could do with his business and himself.

Vendors such as this are certainly not doing the rocketry community any favors.

 

[agrippo]

I've ordered twice from Ken at Performance Hobbies and didn't have a good experience either time. Slow deliveries that exceeded a month each time and the first order never was filled completely and never got an explaination as to why.

I spoke with him on the phone a couple of times so I know he is a great guy and he may be a great vendor onsite but he just doesn't cut it when it comes to reliable customer service.

Andrew

 

[carl20320]

I ordered a Performance Rocketry nosecone from Ken for my upscale Alpha III several months ago. I had it in hand within 3 days. I've also emailed him several times and gotten timely responses.

Obviously, YMMV

 

[Ltvscout]

Originally posted by geof
======================
[Note: I thought I had selected the ejection delay when filling my
electronic shopping cart. So I went back and checked. Mr. Allen's
website does not permit the online choice of a delay- I completed his
web shopping process precisely as he had it set up. Only when I began
pestering him after 10 days did he raise the question of the ejection
delay--he never inquired about this of his own initiative when the
order was placed. Even today the Semroc kit is still listed at
performancehobbies.com as "In stock and ready to ship!".]

I'm still waiting for the FSI motors I ordered from him in the late 90's...

 

[geof]

Originally posted by fred22
Given their are legal wrangles in here and the tone of these posts are a little heated would not all of this be better handled with PMs.
Cheers
fred

My initial post was carefully measured in tone. A private complaint to Ken does nothing for me, nor does it provide any service to the community of rocketeers who want to make informed purchasing decisions. Readers are welcome to search all threads on Performance Hobbies and draw their own conclusion based on the balance of positive and negative experiences, compared to other vendors competing for their purchase.

BTW, I can now report that my card was charged on 4/3 (!) and refunded on 4/12. It's interesting that he charged my card without having the merchandise in hand to ship, and without knowing which motors to send me. He was much quicker with the refund than anything else.

Geof

 

[Fred]

Your posts are measured in tone some others are definately not. One of the reasons i like this place is because debate and dialogue are carried on in a polite manner. Your complaint seems valid but some of the comments on this thread are rude and contain personal legal information that should not be discussed in a forum such as this IMO. I mean to offend no one but have not all the pertinent information been discussed and the mudslinging began?
Cheers
fred

 

[geof]

I don't know what the point of this thread was.

Below is the description of this forum. It is common protocol to rate internet vendors on their service, whether with automated tools like on Amazon or Ebay, or through customer forums like this one.

Vendors
Vendor announcements, feedback on their products and customer support. Remember that the vendors who are represented here have taken their time to support this forum. Please show them the respect and dignity they deserve.

 

[n3tjm]

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I have in the past, and still plan to, order from Ken. The reason for this is several reasons.

First things. I understand he has no storefront. He is on the road a lot. Matter of fact, when I can reach him on the phone, he is on the road. He can't check his e-mail that often, and when he does, I imagine he has so many messages that some will never catch his attention. He is also disorganized. Something that can be understood by the amount of goods he has and how he packs and unpacks his trailer every day at every launch....

Bearing that in mind.. when I order something. I let him know when I need it. Then I call him and remind him. The key is to be nice. Its not like he can send your order out the second you order it.

The other reason I order from him is he gave me the benifit of the doubt. At one launch I went too, I could not remember if I bought a bunch of G75's that Sunday... I thought I did, but I did not have them. I called him and asked if he had the reciept from that Sunday. He looked and could not find it. I figured either three things happened. I did not buy the motors. I left them on the table, or I bought them and someone stole them from my table. Honestly not remembering the transaction, and he having no writen reciept, gave me the benifit of the doubt and sent me the loads that I was missing.






You ask how he can charge it instantly? You ordered it on the web? It is automatically charged.

 

[Austin]

If you are missing a post here, it was either slanderous, an attack on another member, contained vulgarity or had quotes of one of the above posts and has since been removed. I should not have to clean up threads like this guys...let's play nice and keep it friendly.

I don't want to have to come in here again...

Thanks,

Carl

 

[Countdown Hobbies]

Originally posted by n3tjm

You ask how he can charge it instantly? You ordered it on the web? It is automatically charged.

Thats not necessarily true, a lot of stores including ourselves that don't use a Paypal or 3rd party type service still manually process the orders, the website just collects the information for us. I actually punch CC #'s into the same terminal we use for the store and this way nothing is charged untill the order is sorted out.

Im not sure what he does btu just another POV here...

 

[Rock_It]

I just wanted to say that I had a great experience with Ken at the last launch I went to, and will definitely be buying from him again. He was as nice as he could be to me.

I have never, and will never base my buying decisions off of threads like this. The only time that changes is when somebody has been proven to be a scam artist and that is not the case here. I've learned that issues like this generally are a result of attitudes flaring up because a mistake was made. People make mistakes. Most every single one of these incidents I've seen were a result of yelling over the phone because somebody didn't get something "yesterday".

Heck, I've waited up to 6 months for stuff before. I called to ask when the parts were expected and they told me, and that was fine. I had a Carbon Prop that had to come from Czechoslovakia and it was 6 months deep on backorder. The place of business was not aware of that at the time, and had no control over that. My answer was "thank you for getting me in the queue and I look forward to receiving it".

A place of business cannot send something they don't have, and complaining about it is not gonna make it appear.