Avoiding getting $crewed on water heater replacement

[blackjack2564]

One with a happy ending:

Visiting Chicago. Water heater leak on Fri afternoon at my sister's in North-brook.

They will be there at 4.30 after finishing regular scheduled work.

How much? 1250.00 for 50 gal. OK

Feeling a little pain for my brother construction workers. [me years ago] for working late on Fri.

I drain the heater, unsolder it and move it off to side out of the way. Took about an hour.

They show up at 5.00 a little disappointed, but willing to work overtime to get this job done. [just left new construction job, and a pain in the arse constantly changing their mind customer, making them late] .
Going to be late for something, I don't remember. Anyhow...........


One comes up from the basement and smiling ear to ear tells the helper," get it off the truck, we can be out of here in 30 minutes, don't have to drain the old one or remove it."

He was so happy he didn't have to mess with the old one, and could still get to his event, they knocked off 350 bucks from the bill and still hauled off the old one for us. [they did not install the original unit]

So there are still folks out there that restore my faith in my fellow man......

.......every now and then.

 

[billspad]

I should have at least 5 good years on the current new (gas) water heater. AFter that I'll look at putting in a tankless system, using a decent plumber rather than one of the flat rate crowd. Tankless systems have gotten pretty good and in 5 years should have a really good value/price ratio.

If your house is heated by gas hot air like most in the midwest a tankless heater is your best choice. After a dismal start a few years ago the current tankless systems are worth considering. Here in the northeast where most houses are heated with hot water there are other options. For those of you who heat their hot water with electricity there are now water heaters that have a heat pump mounted on top to suck heat out of the air.

 

[plano-doug]

My house got hit by lightning a couple months ago. It set the hot water heater on fire. Seems the spark jumped from the gas line to the side of the tank, blowing a hole in the flexible gas line and setting the leaking gas on fire. Fortunately, the current exited the tank thru the inlet pipe and caused it to fail, too, thus releasing a spray of water which helped contain the fire. <time out for oft repeated prayer of thanks>

The next day, I had to get my house back in order, and the top two goals were getting our water back on, and getting it hot.

I replaced the leaking cut-off valve to the hot water heater thus allowing me to turn the water back on to the rest of the house (so we could flush the toilets). Then I started calling around to get someone who could replace the water heater. I had recently priced 10-year, 50-gallon tanks, at about 600 bucks.

Besides getting the tank installed, I needed my gas line pressure checked - it had carried the current from the lightning strike.

If I had done it myself, I would have had to deal with getting the tank to the house - without a truck - and raising it up 18" to the deck on which it sits in its closet, two extra challenges I wasn't up to after the fire the night before.

And I still would have the concern about whether the gas lines in my house were safe.

So, when the plumber threw out a 900 dollar quote for a 6-year tank, made-in-the-USA, installed, and the gas line pressure checked, it was a slam dunk, no-brainer.

Yeah, I mighta coulda saved a buck or two, or I could have spent a lot more, especially if I turned on the gas and blew my house up.

But when I look at the numbers, 900 dollars seemed very agreeable for a new tank installed so quickly. I took a hot shower that night, less than 24 hours after putting out the fire. And I also gave a prayer of thanks for having 900 bucks to spare With four kids, two in college, that's a lot of extra cash nowadays.

[PS: I had drained and removed the old tank, so that factors in the pricing.]

Doug

.

 

[rcktnut]

Then you should like this.

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I remember well visiting grandpas house once and when grandma turned on the hot water to do dishes steam came out of the faucet. Never seen grandpa run downstairs so fast!! He had a water heater that had to be lit and turned off manually. I've seen him lite it many times. He opened up a side door and it had the burner on the bottom which he lit, and a coil of copper pipe running up the height of the heater. That was one heck of a heavy galvanized tank. No wonder they blew up the way they did.

 

[spacecadet]

Thanks! I'm particularly proud of my crack about him assuming liability if I turned the water back on...

So the old chestnut about Americans being litigious has a kernel of truth, then?

 

[Marc_G]

So the old chestnut about Americans being litigious has a kernel of truth, then?

Anyone who calls me litigious better prepared to be sued for slander and libel!

:tongue:

Seriously, I've had water in the basement before and it's not fun. First thing I did on finding the leak was turn off the water supply. Any plumber suggesting I turn it on again is taking matters --and responsibility-- into their own hands!

 

[judo]

So the old chestnut about Americans being litigious has a kernel of truth, then?

Kernel?

Try house filled with popcorn as in the movie "Real Genius".

 

[bradycros]

Anyone who calls me litigious better prepared to be sued for slander and libel!

:tongue:

Seriously, I've had water in the basement before and it's not fun. First thing I did on finding the leak was turn off the water supply. Any plumber suggesting I turn it on again is taking matters --and responsibility-- into their own hands!

Glad to know you used the 'home playing field' to your advantage.

 

[SwingWing]

If your house is heated by gas hot air like most in the midwest a tankless heater is your best choice. After a dismal start a few years ago the current tankless systems are worth considering. Here in the northeast where most houses are heated with hot water there are other options. For those of you who heat their hot water with electricity there are now water heaters that have a heat pump mounted on top to suck heat out of the air.

How long does the typical "on demand" tankless heater last? I have heard horror stories about quickly plugging heat exchangers, but I have teenagers, and I'm sick of cold showers.........

 

[JPVegh]

I think the fed gov is still giving a tax credit for installing a qualified tankless unit.

 

[les]

On a slightly different topic, my well pump went sour. It had been replaced about 10~15 years ago, so somewhere 2000, right? Got a guy to come out and replace it. He showed me the pump he pulled had a date code of 1988. Either the first guy had that thing sitting around for a long time, or else he put a used pump in.
Even the guy agreed there are a lot of crooks in his business...

 

[Marc_G]

These flat rate plumbers are the worst.

I should have learned the lesson back when I lived in Maryland and was selling my house there to move to Indianapolis.

One condition the buyer put into the contract was "Basement toilet rocks. Must be tightened or re-fastened by a licensed plumbing contractor" or something to that effect.

I was pissed about it but heck, the guy was giving me 99% of the price I asked and a done deal would let me go house hunting on time. So I called an outfit that was basically the Maryland family of The Plumber$ and brought the folks out.

Indeed, the closet ring was in shreds and it was on a somewhat dodgy area of concrete.

They pulled out their flat price list and this came under the classification of "Invent time travel machine" or some such. $400. But I needed it fixed, and though I knew how to do it, I needed the licensed repair ticket.

Took them 15 minutes to put in an adaptor down into the PVC drain and solvent weld a PVC closet ring into that, avoiding the need to mess with the concrete. I knew the parts were maybe $20 at Home Despot.

Again, I should have learned my lesson.

I've now got the name of a good local plumber guy who does good work for my neighbors at reasonable prices. Never again will I call The Plumber$.

Marc

 

[Bazookadale]

So the old chestnut about Americans being litigious has a kernel of truth, then?

Are you kidding - lawsuits are our national pastime

 

[billspad]

How long does the typical "on demand" tankless heater last? I have heard horror stories about quickly plugging heat exchangers, but I have teenagers, and I'm sick of cold showers.........

It depends on your water. They recommend installing isolation valves to make cleaning them easier so it's clearly something that needs to be done. If you have hard water you're going to have to do it often.

 

[billspad]

Seriously, I've had water in the basement before and it's not fun.

If you have a finished basement you should consider one of these or at the very least, one of these.

 

[Launch Lug]

4 words... AMERICAN HOME SHIELD WARRANTY.

It's about $400 a year. My wife and I have been renewing ours every year since we've been home owners. I've had 2 water heaters replaced in two different homes and it cost me a $65 deductible each time. You call AHS and report the problem and they call a local trade to do the work. You pay the guy that shows up the 65 bux and AHS takes care of the rest. I've had a garage door opener, 2 water heaters (1 of them was serviced twice, it was replaced upon the second service call a year later) and a furnace mother board replaced. AHS even gave us a 75$ credit to purchase space heaters when the furnace went out because it was in December and the part had to be ordered which took a couple of days.

We've basically broke even at the end of 10 years of owning our own home but it's knowing that if something goes wrong and needs to be replaced all I have to do is make 1 phone call and its all taken care of. No hassle or worries to deal with. That's worth every penny to me!

 

[Pippen]

Everytime I've needed an appliance repaired or replaced that was under warranty, it's meant at least two service calls--the first for diagnosing the problem and the second for repair. I just figured that was standard these days. It was a minor pain when I was at home, but it's a big pain now that I'm working outside the home.

Our last two water heaters have gone bad within a few weeks of the warranty expiration date. The first was one week before--should have been covered except my husband filed the postcard away with the warranty instead of mailing it in. (I think the installers take care of that now). The second was completely covered.

 

[billspad]

Our last two water heaters have gone bad within a few weeks of the warranty expiration date. The first was one week before--should have been covered except my husband filed the postcard away with the warranty instead of mailing it in. (I think the installers take care of that now). The second was completely covered.

Most of the manufacturers (A.O.Smith, State, and Bradford White for sure) don't care if you mail that card in. It's just used for marketing. There's a serial number on the water heater that tells when it was manufactured. You can go to the manufacturers website and check it. If the heater came from a dealer who sells a lot of heaters you may see that the heater was "manufactured" after it was installed. They date them that way in case a heater hangs around the warehouse too long. If the day your heater starts to leak is close to the day the warranty runs out they may ask for a copy of the bill from when it was installed. This also should work if it runs out a day after the warranty ends. If you didn't save a copy of the bill your plumber may have. I have invoices from the late 90's stored on my computer.

 

[Scotty Dog]

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Nice info there.
If I have my info correct,a pressure cooker doesnt cook faster cuz of the pressure, (meaning, pressing the heat into the food) its cuz you are cooking with a higherr temp than 212 .Correct?

 

[luke strawwalker]

Now I remember why I do ALL my own work... (to the extent I have the tools and know-how... need to learn HVAC because A/C is REALLY expensive!) I do ALL my own plumbing, water well, electrical, and 90% of the automotive stuff myself. Screw these "professional" rip-off artists...

Water heaters are a PITA because of the size and weight (especially used ones with calcium buildup inside and residual water) but you can always unscrew the drain valve and dump as much out as you possibly can and use a block-n-tackle to hoist it up the stairs... (fortunately in Texas everything's mounted ABOVE ground, so gravity is on our side.

One thing I've learned-- warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on... ESPECIALLY extended warranties... you can literally use them for toilet paper and extract more value... you WILL have to go 10 rounds with whomever is supposed to "back up" the warranty to get what you're entitled to, REGARDLESS of who it is. I had to go 10 rounds with Ford because of the extended warranty on my truck. NEVER AGAIN. Heck for what the stupid extended warranty cost, I could have just put that money in the bank and paid for a boatload of repairs myself anyway (it cost about what a transmission rebuild cost last year anyway, LONG after the extended warranty expired.) Warranties are getting SO crappy I'm seriously considering, if I ever actually buy a NEW truck rather than used, going to a fleet sale dealer and buying it with NO warranty-- they're THOUSANDS of bucks cheaper that way!

Warranties and insurance are the two biggest scams out there... you owe them a DIME, it better be there ON TIME OR ELSE... they owe YOU money, you better have LAW-1000 on speed-dial and be ready to go 10 rounds to MAKE them do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE in the first place... Been through that myself too, with STINKING ALLSTATE insurance when a girl rear-ended my old truck while I sat at a red light... TOTALLY 100% her fault, NO DOUBT about it, and took a year of going through h3ll and back to get them to pay a measly $3,000 bucks for repairs on the truck...

HA... Allstate... "are you in good hands??" All I got from them was THE FINGER!!! Sorry b@st@rds... hope they go broke!

Later! OL JR

 

[Marc_G]

@ Launch Lug-

It sounds like you had decent experiences with AHSW. Consider yourself fortunate. You are in the distinct minority. I had their warranty for years (it came with my house in Maryland, and I renewed it, so I was covered for about 6 years with them).

I had about 5 "repair" claims with them. All were poor experiences (which started right after I renewed). Wound up doing some research and found that they are well known for refusing claims, hiring the lowest-bid contractors, using the crapiest parts, and forcing ridiculous waits on clients.

Let's see... I can just remember a few of the situations I had with them:
-Dishwasher: I phoned it in, paid for the service call, then the guy tells me it's too old to be covered, or something like that. I complain, they send another guy, and I have to wait a week for the part (which was available in-stock at the parts store 5 miles from my house). But they had to get it from their "warehouse."

-Dishwasher, round 2: - it gave up the ghost about two months later. I call them, they declare it a loss, and instead of replacing it force me to accept a credit towards a new one. After paying the service call, I think I got $40 towards a maybe $400 dishwasher. I complained bitterly but got nowhere.

-Washing machine leaking. Guy shows up, warns me it's probably "dead." I tell him, no, it's the transmission leaking, swap it out. He tells me it will be 2 weeks to get that old a part. I tell him it's the standard whirlpool system, parts everywhere. Nope, gotta get one from the warehouse and they are on national backorder. Keep in mind, he hasn't so much as gone down to look at the thing yet. Eventually I kicked him out without paying the service call fee, and got the part and learned how to put it in myself, for less than the cost of the service call would have been.

-Gas forced air furnace: Cracked heat exchanger, red-tagged by the gas people during annual inspection. AHSW picked the crappiest folks in town with a known lousy reputation to do the work. I had to wait 10 days (fortunately, it was fall, not winter). They did a hack job and at the end when I noticed they hadn't put in a filter on the incoming return air. They were pissed but I threatened to report the code violation and they hacked one in. It sucked.

-AC died. They kept insisiting it should be repaired, not replaced, and it kept dying. They sent over scary dangerous looking people that didn't know subcool from their a$$ and at one point actually blew out the compressor, then just said it was old. I screamed bloody murder and eventually got a small cash settlement so I could go out and get a decent contractor to put in a proper system. I think I got $300 and had to shell out $3000 of my own money.

AHSW loves to cash your checks, and for water heaters there's not much wiggle room I'll admit, but overall it's a great moneymaker for them and I wouldn't even consider buying a home warranty with them or anyone else. I much prefer to bank my fees and then find a reputable contractor to do quality work on my schedule, not theirs.

This "The Plumber$" thing was a mistake on my part, one that won't soon be made again! But I'm done with them, and fortunately have a decent heater working now.

Marc

 

[tightwad]

In 2005, I replaced my gas water heater with a on-demand tankless heater. It was the best move I have made. It cut my gas bill by almost 1/3 and now we have hot water as long as you want it. It has a 15 year limited warranty. I do yearly maintenance on the intake filter screen and that's it. Well worth the money.:clap:

 

[north boy]

Hey people Im a plumbing & heating engineer with my own business in Scotland since 2005 and personaly I havent ripped anyone off. I watch all the program's on sky about people getting ripped off with shabby workmanship and 500% mark up on materials etc and it makes it so bad for the honest guy's out there trying to run the straight and fare business. I priced a new build against a local firm to me and my price was in tender at £14,000 all in and he was £29,000 . We were working on the same spek for materials but he had a £15,000 difference :y: HOWS THAT !!!! this is what makes it hard for the wee single guy and its wrong. I feel for the guys that have been robbed but not all are bad new's

Js:cry::cry::cry:

 

[nealkas]

Hey people Im a plumbing & heating engineer with my own business in Scotland since 2005 and personaly I havent ripped anyone off.... I feel for the guys that have been robbed but not all are bad new's

I can dig.
I've been on both sides of the contractor customer relationship in many fields.

Even on our water pump, I could have done it myself.
Done them before, got the tools, even have vendor accounts to get good prices.
However, I was out of town on a job, it was a weekend, and my wife was here alone w/a sick relative.

The plumbers replaced the well, rewired the controls up to modern code from 1940's farm style electrics the tank, and flushed all of the indoor fixtures.
3 guys on a Sunday.
Also if anything happens and they drop the pump down the casing and cannot fish it back out, They'd have to drill me a whole new well for free.
It can happen and does.
Sooo, we certainly paid a premium.
But I cannot honestly say we was robbed.