Any experts with hydraulic oil testing?

[Sandy H.]

Its an odd question for sure, but I want to learn more about testing oil for contaminants, viscosity and other changes that may happen over time in use and this forum has a ton of technically proficient people from all kinds of disciplines.

If you have experience with using an oil testing service, work in an industry that gets oil tested or just know a lot about what happens to oil over time, I'd like to learn more.

My current goal is to know the right questions to ask a testing service to test for oil that is either contaminated or has become dirty in use. I think I know enough to ask OK questions and say which tests I want, but I'd like to know for sure if there are other tests to have run. Also, I only know the places that pop up on google for doing the work, but if you know a reputable lab that is somewhat economical, I'd love a recommendation for who to use.

The general subject is related to a mineral oil used in hydraulics, not motor oil or something along those lines, but any information can be helpful for sure.

Thanks for any responses.

Sandy.

 

[user 30299]

Is your oil being run through a hydraulic power unit (HPU)? Application and working environment of the oil, and the HPU's setup,
if there is an HPU, greatly impact the life and contamination conditions.

Below are pictures of an HPU that I had set up for harsh, high temperature and high humidity environment.

The radiator was necessary to keep the oil temp down to prevent oil breakdown.

There were three filters in the setup. One was for air with a desiccant module so as to reduce water accumulation in the tank/oil.
There was a High-pressure micron filter to prevent contamination of the hydraulic valves. This is on the pressure/supply side.
This is to trap the very small particulates. Then there was a Return filter to pickup the larger particulates, and this is basically
similar to the oil filter on a car.

HPU and Filter Locations


Air Filter & Desiccant Module


High Pressure Filter


Return Filter

 

[cautery]

Is your oil being run through a hydraulic power unit (HPU)? Application and working environment of the oil, and the HPU's setup,
if there is an HPU, greatly impact the life and contamination conditions.

Below are pictures of an HPU that I had set up for harsh, high temperature and high humidity environment.

The radiator was necessary to keep the oil temp down to prevent oil breakdown.

There were three filters in the setup. One was for air with a desiccant module so as to reduce water accumulation in the tank/oil.
There was a High-pressure micron filter to prevent contamination of the hydraulic valves. This is on the pressure/supply side.
This is to trap the very small particulates. Then there was a Return filter to pickup the larger particulates, and this is basically
similar to the oil filter on a car.

HPU and Filter Locations
View attachment 556769

Air Filter & Desiccant Module
View attachment 556770

High Pressure Filter
View attachment 556771

Return Filter
View attachment 556772

NICE setup..... dessicant turns green/dark when it gets what about 45% sat.?

Well done!

 

[user 30299]

You may want to check this site for articles on contamination testing: https://www.powermotiontech.com/magazine/5e6baaf6a1b8b3c9814869e5

Power & Motion is a trade magazine. It used to be called Hydraulics & Pneumatics.

 

[cautery]

Its an odd question for sure, but I want to learn more about testing oil for contaminants, viscosity and other changes that may happen over time in use and this forum has a ton of technically proficient people from all kinds of disciplines.

If you have experience with using an oil testing service, work in an industry that gets oil tested or just know a lot about what happens to oil over time, I'd like to learn more.

My current goal is to know the right questions to ask a testing service to test for oil that is either contaminated or has become dirty in use. I think I know enough to ask OK questions and say which tests I want, but I'd like to know for sure if there are other tests to have run. Also, I only know the places that pop up on google for doing the work, but if you know a reputable lab that is somewhat economical, I'd love a recommendation for who to use.

The general subject is related to a mineral oil used in hydraulics, not motor oil or something along those lines, but any information can be helpful for sure.

Thanks for any responses.

Sandy.

NOT an Expert. Never was; never will be.

Once upon a time, I was however intimately involved in the oil/hydraulic oils monitoring program in a rotary wing unit. And lots of ground vehicle oil program stuff from the infantry.... but a long, long time ago.

One over the world here...

As I remember it, there are two basic ways to do "oil" testing. You can run targeted tests where you are looking for specific substances, typically heavy-duty chemistry I won't address here. This is best for when you are looking for the presence and concentration of certain additives or contaminants, etc. Especially specific polymers.

The other approach is to employ Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry on a representative sample or samples to get an elemental breakout. Fun Stuff!

Can't help but think there are not 100s of videos on oil testing GC-MS on oils and lubricants, etc. on YT.
As an aviation maintenance officer, I was most concerned with seeing the growing presence of specific or combinations of metals that indicated the wear point or pending failure of bearings, etc.

 

[user 30299]

NICE setup..... dessicant turns green/dark when it gets what about 45% sat.?

Well done!

Here's a picture of the unit in place. This is at a sawmill in the Congo. I spent a month there on the installation.

You can see the desiccant turned green in just a couple of weeks. We were "experimenting" to see how this
air filter module would perform. In North America the desiccant modules go a very long time before they
start to turn a bit green. Water/moisture in the hydraulic oil is one of those many challenges on a jungle site.

 

[cautery]

Here's a picture of the unit in place. This is at a sawmill in the Congo. I spent a month there on the installation.

You can see the desiccant turned green in just a couple of weeks. We were "experimenting" to see how this
air filter module would perform. In North America the desiccant modules go a very long time before they
start to turn a bit green. Water/moisture in the hydraulic oil is one of those many challenges on a jungle site.

View attachment 556774

Yup... I get that... I grew up in SE Texas, and I "stomped around" Panama for a while.

That dessicant can typically be "recharged" to a certain degree and reps, right?
Just gotta have a dry heat source.

Gotta love no OSHA! That is a nice facility. Easy to use; easy to maintain. Well done!

 

[user 30299]

Yup... I get that... I grew up in SE Texas, and I "stomped around" Panama for a while.

Panama? Back in your CIA days . . . . (lol)

Can I say that? Is that politically correct?

Ok - enough - let's stick to the oil contamination topic.

 

[cautery]

Here's a picture of the unit in place. This is at a sawmill in the Congo. I spent a month there on the installation.

You can see the desiccant turned green in just a couple of weeks. We were "experimenting" to see how this
air filter module would perform. In North America the desiccant modules go a very long time before they
start to turn a bit green. Water/moisture in the hydraulic oil is one of those many challenges on a jungle site.

View attachment 556774

Cheap tweak to extend the desiccant life.... however TWO weeks in the Congo is pretty darn good.

Anyway.... Water gets into hydraulic systems by way of thermal cycling. You run the mill all day and the reservoir is warm, in fact you probably run a fan on it.... Now, in the evening, you shut down, sun goes down, and YES.... it gets fricken' cold in the jungle at night!!! It's all relative...

So, the hydraulic fluid cools down and reduces volume a little (the air above it does for sure), placing a little draw and sucking air..... a WET air. Run it the next day and the desiccant filter has to eat that water. Temperature driven water pump.

To largely beat this.... Fashion some cheap quilted window reflector or other insulating material into a reservoir cover that is put on "X" minutes (X= TBD) after shutdown. The cover holds in the heat, breaks the thermal cycling pump action, and also shortens the warm-up time for the morning shift which should radically lengthen the life of the system and reducing maintenance costs.... and less materials costs! Dry fluid lasts longer and you also keep exhaust contaminants out of it during the day...

I'd actually send a customer a sensor/recorder that would record the temp cycles day and night for like a week. Then a quick analysis would tell you PRECISELY what the integrated solution would need to be. Market it as the "ULTRA HIGH HUMIDITY ENVIRONMENT RELIABILITY PACKAGE"..... or a name of something someone would actually buy.

Hope this helps someone, somewhere.

Bottom line... ANYTHING you do that keeps that hydraulic fluid at the SAME temp ALL the time (or minimizes the cycle peak to trough temps), the less air exchange through the desiccant filter you will have.

The customer can do this for themselves if they have some reasonably trained and adept employees.

 

[cautery]

Panama? Back in your CIA days . . . . (lol)

Can I say that? Is that politically correct?

Ok - enough - let's stick to the oil contamination topic.

No sir. I was a U.S. Army Officer in the 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment (Airborne) right before we took out Noriega.
(I turned the CIA down.)

 

[user 30299]

Cheap tweak to extend the desiccant life.... however TWO weeks in the Congo is pretty darn good.

Anyway.... Water gets into hydraulic systems by way of thermal cycling. You run the mill all day and the reservoir is warm, in fact you probably run a fan on it.... Now, in the evening, you shut down, sun goes down, and YES.... it gets fricken' cold in the jungle at night!!! It's all relative...

So, the hydraulic fluid cools down and reduces volume a little (the air above it does for sure), placing a little draw and sucking air..... a WET air. Run it the next day and the desiccant filter has to eat that water. Temperature driven water pump.

To largely beat this.... Fashion some cheap quilted window reflector or other insulating material into a reservoir cover that is put on "X" minutes (X= TBD) after shutdown. The cover holds in the heat, breaks the thermal cycling pump action, and also shortens the warm-up time for the morning shift which should radically lengthen the life of the system and reducing maintenance costs.... and less materials costs! Dry fluid lasts longer and you also keep exhaust contaminants out of it during the day...

I'd actually send a customer a sensor/recorder that would record the temp cycles day and night for like a week. Then a quick analysis would tell you PRECISELY what the integrated solution would need to be. Market it as the "ULTRA HIGH HUMIDITY ENVIRONMENT RELIABILITY PACKAGE"..... or a name of something someone would actually buy.

Hope this helps someone, somewhere.

Bottom line... ANYTHING you do that keeps that hydraulic fluid at the SAME temp ALL the time (or minimizes the cycle peak to trough temps), the less air exchange through the desiccant filter you will have.

The customer can do this for themselves if they have some reasonably trained and adept employees.

I can see this setup having application in various areas of North America. As for the Congo - any kind of jacketing would trap the fine dirt (soil).

Here's a picture to highlight the soil conditions. This fine soil is all over your skin, in your nose and hair - all day, every day.



The site has groups of men and women that spend all their time just pumping grease into bearing housing
to keep the dirt out of the bearings. There's no such thing as a "sealed" bearing in these conditions. I've
spent the last 11 years working at this site; twice a year.

 

[user 30299]

No sir. I was a U.S. Army Officer in the 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment (Airborne) right before we took out Noriega.
(I turned the CIA down.)

I believe that I will be headin' on down the trail. I don't think I want to be here anymore.

Thank you for your service to our country!

 

[cautery]

I can see this setup having application in various areas of North America. As for the Congo - any kind of jacketing would trap the fine dirt (soil).

Here's a picture to highlight the soil conditions. This fine soil is all over your skin, in your nose and hair - all day, every day.

View attachment 556778

The site has groups of men and women that spend all their time just pumping grease into bearing housing
to keep the dirt out of the bearings. There's no such thing as a "sealed" bearing in these conditions. I've
spent the last 11 years working at this site; twice a year.

Yuck... haven't seen that for a long time. Thanks for doing what you do. I know the folks on the other end are/should be grateful!

 

[cautery]

Thank you for your service to our country!

It was my privilege.

 

[lakeroadster]

FWIW: The manufacturer I used to work for used Mobil Oil products exclusively. We always used their oil analysis services.

Mobil Serv℠ Lubricant Analysis​

 

[Hobie1dog]

but the biggest question is, what brand and type of oil are you using .....synthetic I am assuming?

 

[OverTheTop]

I have some experience with oil testing that is used for engine oils, typically on large earthmoving equipment. I used to get my engine oil analysed by Caterpillar, using their SOS oil testing service. It will tell you which elements are in the oil and at what concentration. Anything above normal they point to possible causes in the report. For example, high silicon means probably a leaking air filter.

Analysis is typically done with an ICP-OES spectrometer. A plasma, about the size of your thumb, running at about 10k degrees Celsius has the sample injected into it. The sample is broken down into elements and the light given off is then measured to determine the elemental composition of the sample. 73 elements measured in about 25 seconds.
https://www.agilent.com/en/product/...copy-icp-oes/icp-oes-instruments/5900-icp-oes
No experience using it on hydraulic oil, but I suspect the reporting would be similar.

See if Polaris Labs (IN) can do that analysis.

[edit] Forgot to mention, that is a spectrometer with about 30% of the electronics designed by me.

 

[cerving]

Heavy equipment dealers (Cat, Komatsu, Deere, etc.) generally have a fluid analysis lab, they can tell you more than you'll ever need to know about your hydraulics by analyzing the fluid. If you live anywhere near a metro area, you shouldn't have any problem finding one.