All right, vinyl fanatics: Gather 'round. Here's all you need to know about buying phono cartridges.

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Did you end up not liking the other cart you just got?

In any case, I strongly agree with the use of a transformer instead of active electronics for MC step-up. A good active step-up will add some noise, whereas a transformer is literally noiseless. As in zero, none. It's the right tool for this location in the signal path.

I've got a couple Jensens I built into a nice RF-tight box a long time ago, it is not only completely silent but I've measured it and it's superb in all ways.

Here is the box series I used: https://www.budind.com/series/nema-...rnal_dimensions_group=0&internal_dimensions=0

Have fun!
 
cvanc said:
Did you end up not liking the other cart you just got?
Click to expand...
I love it! I am just curious how a good MC will sound in my system? Audio is a disease. But a great disease.
 
jderimig said:
Light arm, Grace 707, about 9 grams. Not much choice is high compliance MC's these days.

I will need a SUT to drive my phono amp. Leanings towards a Cinemag 1254 xformer and DIY box for it.
Click to expand...
I'd recommend replacing the phono amp with either a Mani 2 or a Skoll. If you decide to replace it with a Mani 2, I have one that I'm looking to replace with the Skoll...

The Mani 2 has the advantage of inexpensive, yet great sound and able to handle both MM and MC cartridges. You just have to turn the Mani 2 off in order to change settings. The Skoll, while a bit more expensive, allows you to change the impedance/loading on the fly (via a remote, no less!), it also offers truly balanced output.
 
Probably a good idea but I have too much emotion invested in my EAR834 clone to not include in the signal path of an MC. :) Plus it sounds glorious.
 
John - know that Hana also make a MH model which is a higher output version of the ML.
People rave about the ML.
Maybe the MH is voiced the same - dunno.
But worth checking out.
 
FredA said:
John - know that Hana also make a MH model which is a higher output version of the ML.
People rave about the ML.
Maybe the MH is voiced the same - dunno.
But worth checking out.
Click to expand...
Doing a lot of forum reading. There is a some agreement the high output MC achieve this by using bigger coils at the end of cantilever thus negating the advantage of traditional MC which low moving mass/inertia. I am thinking if I go to explore the MC space go full measure not half. Yes, the ML gets alot of love.
 
The cartridge with the greatest dynamics that I've owned was an Ortofon MC 20 that had a super low output of only 0.07mv
 
Replaced my MC10 with the Ortofon phono-stage with my DV-17D2 and ML29. with the MC input option........no contest.
 
Ok, lets talk about SRA (stylus rake angle). I noticed that my tonearm wasn't "parallel" to the record like AT says it should be. So I adjusted by tonearm base down and got it closer to parallel but still not. Gave it a listen and expected to be wowed, result, didn't sound good. So I adjusted it back up. Sounded much better. Got my cheap USB microscope out and after figuring out lighting and support I snapped this pic. So this rake angle look right? Its hard to make out the ridge or facet contact point, but it looks to me that its about 92ish degrees rake angle. I will play abit more to get a better pic.

Screenshot from 2024-04-07 23-21-42.png
 
Found a VPI ADS for sale with a pretty nice discount.
Was skeptical, but a friend told me it was a worthwhile upgrade.
Since I KNOW I have noisy power, I figured I'd bite.
Came Monday.
Rearranged my stack to make room and hooked it up.
Was hoping to hear something.
Oh yea - heard something - HUM CITY!
That thing radiates so much it can't be within a foot of my pre-amp!!!
Rearranged everything again and put it on the floor for now.
Hum solved, but ran out of time.

Got to throw on a couple of side this morning.
WOW - things really tightened up. Attack improved greatly and imaging improved too.
I'm amazed, impressed and somewhat stupefied it made that much of a difference!
 
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FredA said:
Found a VPI ADS for sale with a pretty nice discount.
Was skeptical, but a friend told me it was a worthwhile upgrade.
Since I KNOW I have noisy power, I figured I'd bite.
Came Monday.
Rearranged my stack to make room and hooked it up.
Was hoping to hear something.
Oh yea - heard something - HUM CITY!
That thing radiates so much it can't be within a foot of my pre-amp!!!
Rearranged everything again and put it on the floor for now.
Hum solved, but ran out of time.

Got to throw on a couple of side this morning.
WOW - things really tightened up. Attack improved greatly and imaging improved too.
I'm amazed, impressed and somewhat stupefied it made that much of a difference!
Click to expand...
I am stupified on why VPI would price a turntable so high and not have basic good spead control commensurate with the cost built in. A turntable only has 1 job.
 
Still have the Sony direct drive turntable that I bought in 1975 for $125 :)
IIRC, it has a Sure cartridge. Haven't played vinyl in years. Still have about 300 vinyl albums purchased when vinyl, 8 track, or cassette was the only way to get recorded music. Had a cassette recorder to make play tapes. Still have the DBX cassette deck. NO tape noise!
 
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jderimig said:
A turntable only has 1 job
Click to expand...
Yet there seems to be 100's of ways to do that job. And even more opinions.
Agree that at some price point that should be included in the package, but have you looked at the price spread on high-end TT's?
All combined, my VPI is many kilobucks under the next rung up the ladder.
You gotta draw the line somewhere and I think I'm good at this point.

My old DD turntable was SOTA for it's time and had the latest and greatest motor with it's overlapping bifilar windings that avoided cogging as well as it's crystal speed control but it can't hold a candle to my VPI.
 
FredA said:
Yet there seems to be 100's of ways to do that job. And even more opinions.
Agree that at some price point that should be included in the package, but have you looked at the price spread on high-end TT's?
All combined, my VPI is many kilobucks under the next rung up the ladder.
You gotta draw the line somewhere and I think I'm good at this point.

My old DD turntable was SOTA for it's time and had the latest and greatest motor with it's overlapping bifilar windings that avoided cogging as well as it's crystal speed control but it can't hold a candle to my VPI.
Click to expand...
I had a SOTA Sapphire in the 80's that I foolishy sold when I thought vinyl was dead. I think I paid $995 new for it. At AXPONA they now retail for $5K. No thanks.
 
Should have kept that one, for sure.

Crazy prices.
The Sapphire was on my shortlist for a while.
I heard they are finally going to revamp their arms.

They have upgrades to their motors and external speed controllers too.
It was tempting to switch to their drive system, but to do it right you need to glue a magnet to your platter and a sensor to the plinth.
That's more mods than I want to hack into my nice looking VPI.
Plus it's $1500.
 
Surprising changes to my system with the addition of the ADS to drive the VPI.
I would say this made the biggest change of any "accessory" device or cabling.
The highs are MUCH crisper.
I listened to several albums I knew well and heard things I never heard.
In the MIDDLE OF VERY LOUD PASSAGES of Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, I could hear:
- I could tell which direction the cymbal was struck.
- I could hear Castanets I never knew were there.
- I could hear the beads in a Maraca - I never even knew a Maraca was there.
- I could hear INVIDIDUAL JINGLES in the Tambourine - each one had a unique sound and a placement!

I would say my system now boarders on CLINICAL - YIKES.
Actually thinking I might make a a relay box that switches which source drives the TT.
The "mushy" drive of the straight power line helps some records.

John - a motor drive would make a great DIY project :)
 
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Does the VPI use a synchronous motor?

@John Kemker I think the Sol uses a very good synchronous motor. They are sensitive to the quality of the AC supply and may use a capacitor to generate the 90deg 2nd phase. The problem is that second phase is not always rock solid at 90 because of loading.

An offline synchronous motor drive can be simply by a signal generator chip to generate a nice pure 60hz sine and cosine wave. Use that to drive a good stereo PA module at the voltage your motor requires. Perfect sync motor drive.
 
John - yes, 300 RPM AC-Sync.
Yes, the ADS is just that - twin oscillators (relay switched for 33 and 45 RPM) that feed a class AB amp swinging +/- 15V into a transformer to step it up close to 120VAC.

That motor must have really been dancing with the power line noise. The cleanup is amazing.
 
FredA said:
John - yes, 300 RPM AC-Sync.
Yes, the ADS is just that - twin oscillators (relay switched for 33 and 45 RPM) that feed a class AB amp swinging +/- 15V into a transformer to step it up close to 120VAC.

That motor must have really been dancing with the power line noise. The cleanup is amazing.
Click to expand...
Okay. Anybody got a schematic for me to start with? What I'd like to do is start with the wall-wart that Schiit uses and then feed that to the 'conditioner.' Sol takes 16VAC.
 
VPI ADS Schematic

Here ya go.
Pretty simple.
Interesting use of lamps as negative-resistance devices.

For your Sol, you can just skip the output transformer.
 
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John Kemker said:
Okay. Anybody got a schematic for me to start with? What I'd like to do is start with the wall-wart that Schiit uses and then feed that to the 'conditioner.' Sol takes 16VAC.
Click to expand...
If you just want to prototype the concept without investing in a discrete build the following might work.
1. Do you have a signal generator. If not this 2signal one will work, and now you will have a signal generator for other uses.
https://www.amazon.com/Koolertron-Generator-Precision-Dual-channel-Arbitrary/dp/B07211YWMK/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=A09Ic&content-id=amzn1.sym.dde481d7-92dc-42ce-a703-f1bc175e21c6:amzn1.symc.d10b1e54-47e4-4b2a-b42d-92fe6ebbe579&pf_rd_p=dde481d7-92dc-42ce-a703-f1bc175e21c6&pf_rd_r=DDE356VVBFEAM2ANJ3R2&pd_rd_wg=48T9f&pd_rd_r=177f3c46-687e-4961-91e6-d7a8004275f7&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m
2. If you want to go guerrilla you can use a software signal generator on a PC.
3. Have a stereo amp around you are not using, ~30W channel, I'll bet you do.
4. These 12 antek torroidals are $20. Will take your stereo amp output to metaphysically clean 110-120vac. (If you want super clean 60Hz you can put a simple CLC or CRC ilter between the sig generator and amp input.
https://www.antekinc.com/as-0512-50va-12v-transformer/
You can try this first into your standard Sol to see just want clean 110AC will sound like.
If you want to go directly to your motor coils you can use both outputs of the signal gen with one channel 90 out of phase. Run to your stereo amp and direct to you motor coils once you set the voltage output where needed
 
Has anyone tried any of the UHQR vinyl that Accoustic Sounds releases?
 

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