Wildman mini - Wild Thang!

I've seen a number of threads here about building Wildman "sport" versions, but none about the Wildman mini's.. So, I decided to build a mini. This kit seemed to be great for MPR, and will easily work for L1. Cheaper than the sport version, but I did add the DD/Payload paylod option (which is the same for all the mini's, so if I get another "mini", it can be used intact). I'll be using areopack for motor retention (I have the rings, so just had to get the base part),rail buttons, and the missileworks RRC2+, with the 38mm Sled for Li-Po batteries.

First impression. It's all black! The BT, the fins, the CRs, the NC. Nothing odd, but I've never seen that before! Kit arrived in fine shape, with the Wild Thang parts in one bag, and the payload/DD in a second bag. I don't know if it was forgotten, but there were zero instructions. But none are really needed, as the basic rocket is a simple 3F-NC, but with TTW fins. The main thing with FG is to SAND anyplace where epoxy is used, and I spent some time doing just that this afternoon. I had a bit more time, so I built the alt bay.

It's a 4" coupler, and the DD option comes with 4 bulkheads. Two to fit inside the coupler, and two to fit over the coupler. A little sanding needed, but the large and small form a "cap" for each end of the altbay. With the Missileworks sled, you need two #8 allthreads, spaced 1" apart Here's a pic of the internals, without the MW RRC2+. I'll be putting on the eyebolts tomorrow, as right now, I'm writing this! The sled is shifted to the back end, as I'll be using t-nuts in the coupler to attach the altbay to the payload sectiion, where there will also be a hole to access the switch and act as the vent hole.



You can see how the bulkheads are joined to create a cap for each end.

Oh, another surprise for me was that the "W" on the fins is actually through the fins - I thought it was just a decal. When I created the rocksim for this, I ignored it. On a H128, this sims at over 4k (with the payload/DD), and this rocket WILL handle that! (for L1/L2 certs, I suggest using motor eject and leaving the altimeter out of it, as using electronics is an unneeded possible point for failure)

Update: I found online instructions for another mini on the wildman site, and as these kits are all basicly the same, those instructions will work just fine!
https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/productimages/Instructions/Wildman/Instructions/mini_ds_wm.pdf

for those who need/want them, the instructions for the 'minis' are on the Wildman website, for that matter all of the Wildman rocket instructions are there.
Rex

Got more done today. After reading the wildman instructions, I'm "merging" the two options for the basic build. Also, didn't use any CA, and am using 15min epoxy, not 5min (15m give you a bit more working time, and is a bit stronger). Mounted the TK using a notched upper CR. Laided down some epoxy on the MMT, then the TK, then more epoxy, and then, covered it with a piece of waxed paper, and then wraped it in masking take until the epoxy set (Epoxy doesn't stick to wax paper, and by doing this, the epoxy is forced into the TN from both sides. It's a very strong connection!). Applied fillets to both sides of the upper CR, letting everything set up for some time. While that was happening, laided out lines on the BT for t-nuts to attach 1010 rail guides. One is above where the aft CR will be (between the fin slots), and one above the upper CR (make sure to include the flange on the t-nuts so they don't interfere with the CRs! Use #6 t-nuts, and find ones where the collar fits inside a 1010 rail button (Lowes has them) At this point the upper T-nut can be epoxied into place. Line up the t-nut on the inside of the BT with the top hole, and then using a #6 screw dipped in Vaseline (the epoxy won't stick to the threads this way) and a rail button, catch the t-nut, and tighten the screw so the collar of the t-nut comes thru the hole and into the rail button. You can then epoxy the flange to the inside of the BT.

When this is set, time to secure them MMT and install the rear t-nut . (I did dry fit this before I attempted to epoxy it!) With the rear t-nut, there is little space between the MMT and the BT, so to install it, it has to be while you can angle the motor tube, but after the front CR is past the hole. I had to make sure that with the angled motor tube, I could slip in the t-nut, get it to the hole, and pull it through. Once I found I could, Take out the rear t-nut, and pull the MMT back out. Also, made a "handle" so the rear CR can be removed after the top CR is epoxied in. Then put in the epoxy on the inside of the BT for the front CR (this is why I user 15m epoxy!). Slide the MMT in past the hole for the rear t-nut, and using a screw, grab the t-nut and pull it through it's hole. Then slide the MMT into the epoxy, positioning it so the TK is beteen two fin slots, and with the dry real CR (and handles!) slide the MMT in with enough of the motor tube exposed for a (much) later attachment of the retainer. When the epoxy is set, pull the rear CR, and epoxy in the rear t-nut (don't forget the Vaseline on the threads!) You'll need an old rail button and a short #6 screw for this. Here's how it looks when all this has set:



I try to use t-nuts for rail button when I can. Others use wood screws into the CRs. I like the ability to remove the buttons for painting or replacement, and if you're a bit off on trying to drill into a CR, the button could rip out on the first flight.

Completed payload bay/alt bay:


as I mentioned in an earlier post, the sled is actually positioned at the bottom of the alt bay, to allow for t-nuts/screws (#6) to secure the alt bay to the payload BT. Here you can see one of the two screws, with the other being 180' away. First I drilled hows for the T-nuts/screws with the coupler possitions inside the BT. I then used jb weld to secure the flange of the t-nuts on the inside of the coupler, with the collar extending through the wall of the coupler. After all was set up, I used a file to knock down the end of the collar to allow easy fit in the payload BT. Once all was set, I used the screws to secure the coupler, and then marked for the vent hole/switch access hole, and drilled that.

Up near the NC, I drilled a hole for a #4 screw and #4 t-nut which is mounted onside the NC. This is to secure the NC on flights using motor eject or single deploy. I drilled a second hole (small - 1/16") 180's for that the same distance from the top of the BT, which will be used for a shear ping made of a small styrene rod for dual deploy

what is the big hole for ?

Thanks for posting this- I was thinking of picking up one of the minis at MWP12 as an L1/mach buster. Are you going to paint it, or just leave it black?

On your next project you should consider using PEM nuts instead of T-Nuts to secure your av bay. You will be pleasantly surprised by how easily they are installed. I have used the #8 PEM nuts in my larger rockets and #6 on smaller rockets. On the #8 nuts, you drill your normal size hole to fit the #8 screw and then drill out the coupler hole larger to accept the shoulder of the PEM nut. The nut shoulder fits flush with the outside of the coupler and the knurled edge of the shoulder grips the hole such that you don't need to use epoxy. It may be difficult to get the shoulder into the hole but if you get it partly in, just slide the coupler into the body tube and insert the screw and tighten . . . tightening will pull the shoulder neatly into the hole and the nut will be solidly installed.

Missile Works sells the PEM nuts and screws.

Area66 said:

what is the big hole for ?

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Two purposes - a vent hole for the alt bay, and access to the rotary switch on the sled for the altimeter.

RecoRocket said:

Two purposes - a vent hole for the alt bay, and access to the rotary switch on the sled for the altimeter.

Click to expand...

But it's way too large

This is where I start merging the two build methods in the wildman instructions. Again, I'm using 15m epoxy. The rear CR is off, as I do plan on using foam for the internal fillets. Tack the rout eges of the fins to the motor tube. With 15m epoxy, you got a bit more time to get the fins aligned (I just used a piece of paper with a circle drawn a hair bigger that the BT, and lines for each fin 120' apart. Using the retainer with a motor casing added weight to the aft end, and also made it easy to center it on the circle on the paper.

In the wildman directions, if you are using foam, he says you don't need to apply outside fillets, but if you look at the picture, you can see foam that squeezes out of the joints, requiring extra cleanup and sanding, so I'm applying fillets that are big enough to seal any leak points between the fins and the slots. That's also another reason I used epoxy on the top CR, so there's no foam "ooze" at that point too. I'll be finishing up those fillets today, and tomorrow comes the foam.

Area66 said:

But it's way too large

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It's larger than needed for a vent hole, but it's a good size to access the switch (see the first picture in this thread to see the switch). I like to be able to see where the slot in the switch is when arming, but if you prefer a smaller hole, you can do that. It looks kind of large unless you also consider this is a small bird.

RecoRocket said:

It's larger than needed for a vent hole, but it's a good size to access the switch (see the first picture in this thread to see the switch). I like to be able to see where the slot in the switch is when arming, but if you prefer a smaller hole, you can do that. It looks kind of large unless you also consider this is a small bird.

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It's not a question of taste; wind may affect the altimeter, you can have also airflow impingement if the hole is too large, you can still use that hole too arm the altimeter and plug it with tape after arm it.

Area66 said:

It's not a question of taste; wind may affect the altimeter, you can have also airflow impingement if the hole is too large, you can still use that hole too arm the altimeter and plug it with tape after arm it.

Click to expand...

You're saying to cover the vent hole? The hole in the picture actually is only a bit larger than the blade of the pocket screwdriver I use. The rail buttons would cause more "airflow inpingment", IMHO. The hole is less under 1/4". With all projects, concessions are made, and if this drops 100' off a 2k flight, so be it. Have you noticed with the wild thang, there is "w" cut in each fin, with will probably impact drag/CP?

Anyway back to the thread. I'll probably foam the fincan tomorrow.....

foam day! Mixed up a small batch of two part foam, but before hand, deviated from the wildman instructions. I didn't use a syringe, but instead made three small funnels out of wax paper and masking tape (one for each section of the fincan). Also, I made sure the lower t-nut (for the rail gide) had a screw in it, as I didn't want foam expand out through it.

"The best laid plans". I had a pinhole size leak in the to CR, and some foam oozed thru that into the upper part of the BT, and in one of the three sections of the fin can, a bit to much mix was used, so I still had to do some cleanup after the foam had set. But zero leaks along the fin/finslot joints, so no cleanup on the visible parts that could be a pain to "make nice" for painting...

Then, epoxied in the rear CR. I did push it in so it hit the rear of the fins, which left more exposed BT than really needed to the retainer, but allowed for fillets on the rear CR without causing an issue for the retainer seating properly.

The remaining questions are these:
1) Do I paint this or let it fly naked? I was planning to paint it black, but it's already black! If it's all set to go, time to secure the motor retainer (I end to hold off on this when painting, as it's one less thing to mask during painting)
2) the laundry for recovery. The minis come with a 15" Top Flight chute. For the first flight, I'll go with just motor eject and an F. It's a grass field, and this is a foamed, all FG bird, so I'm thinking a 4" wide x 4' nylon streamer, just to save myself a walk!

All in all, I think the minis from wildman are good kits, but a bit more of a "builder's kit" than some kits from other vendors, as you need to plan for things like rail buttons and motor retention, and even more so if you add the alt bay, as that part if every specific to what sled/altimeter you use.

I'd fly this one on an H for an L1. My own L1 was done on a PML IO on an H128, at my first ever club launch. If you use a wildman mini for a cert, do it with motor eject, and leave the electronics on the ground, as you want to keep the cert as simple as possible. Even if you fly it on MPR motors before hand with electronics, don't do it for a cert!

RecoRocket said:

You're saying to cover the vent hole? The hole in the picture actually is only a bit larger than the blade of the pocket screwdriver I use. The rail buttons would cause more "airflow inpingment", IMHO. The hole is less under 1/4".

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As long as you just have the one hole, you'll be fine. I've seen a 1/2" diameter hole on large rockets. Just one mind you. No cross breeze going through with one hole...
I have this same kit at home in the build queue also. Nice job.

Adrian (who still has foam stuck to odd places)

Ok. went with "naked" (no paint) and secured the motor retainer using JB weld, and as far as laundry, I'm going with the chute that came with the kit, and using a 6x6 nomex protector. First flight will be on a F40w, and no electronics. and the weight without motor is just about 20 ozs. Rocksim says about 1500, but from what I've seen, RS can be a bit "optimistic' with the f40!

And yes cd2, you never want 2 vent holes. Use one, or 3 or more!

Good flight on a F40-7, but an interesting landing. It landed in the park, over a small rise from where I launch. As I'm walking up the hill, someone walking their dog says "I hope you brought your waders!". Well, the landing was in a normally grassy area that happened to catch rain runoff - I'd never seen more than maybe 1/2" of water though, and hadn't even thought to look as the vast majority of the time, there's no water at all. Today, at the center, the water was about a foot deep, and if this was a spot landing contest, I did land in the deepest part! Nylon chutes float, BTW. (I'm glad this flight used motor eject and not electronics on board). Zero water damage - a nice thing about FG I hadn't thought of before!

What do you think the altitude was, compared to the RS 1500 estimate?

djs said:

What do you think the altitude was, compared to the RS 1500 estimate?

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Seemed a bit lower - but close. Next flight will have the altimeter, and no water landings!