What is the best product for filling body tube spirals?

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LucasSpringsteen

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The parts for my newest rocket should arrive in the mail soon. I was wondering, what is the best product for filling those spirals for a nice clean finish.

I have seen Apogee Components method, but I am wondering if there is an alternative...

- Lucas
 
I use elmers wood filler thinned with a small amount of water because it is some pretty thick stuff but bondo spot and glazing putty also works great and does not need to be thinned.
 
Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty? I'm trying to avoid ordering more crap on the internet and get it locally. I see Walmart carries this stuff...

I would like to use the strongest and most lightweight stuff I can get a hold of.
 
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4 million layers of primer filler and lots of sanding.
 
The reviews on the Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty (Even though it is an auto product) are about modeling.

I have used this product not for auto body touch-up, but for finishing work on model kits. This product is FAR superior to the white modeling putty that is sold in hobby shops: it goes on very smoothly (not chunky), dries fast, and when you sand it, the results are SMOOTH. Unlike other modeling putties, this product sands very, very easily. Then, you just spray some primer, and you can paint right over it with no problems. So, if you're a model hobbyist and really have a disdain for "squadron putty," this product from 3M is a sort of accidental perfect solution that you'll love. You'll wonder, "Where was THIS stuff my whole life?"

$4.45. It seems obvious now... :)
 
4 million layers of primer filler and lots of sanding.

I believe you made a typo/error. This should read:
"4 billion layers of primer filler and LOTS of sanding."

At least that tends to be my experience.

s6
 
The parts for my newest rocket should arrive in the mail soon. I was wondering, what is the best product for filling those spirals for a nice clean finish.

I have seen Apogee Components method, but I am wondering if there is an alternative...

- Lucas

Are you trying to start a war?!
 
I just want to be able to fill the spirals to:

1. Hopefully prevent potential zipper.
2. Get a nice smooth finish.

I'm not looking to start a war... :)
 
I believe you made a typo/error. This should read:
"4 billion layers of primer filler and LOTS of sanding."

At least that tends to be my experience.

s6

Bottle of Irish Whiskey, a new album on the ipod, a pile of 3M sanding sponges.... the calmest hours of my life :)
 
Uh, how about four layers of primer filler exactly where it needs to be, 3/32" wide or less, not 4 billion layers everywhere?

I do this:

Mask off the sides of the spiral seam. If the spiral seam is say 1/32" wide, the masking tape is going to cover along the sides, leaving a 1/16" to 3/32" wide gap, which has the 1/32" spiral gap in the middle. You are only going to put primer on THAT gap, not the whole tube. Well, by the nature of spray cans, you'll apply more primer than 3/32" wide, but the excess will be on the masking tape, not the tube.

Apply a coat of a GOOD spray primer. My favorite now is Rustoleum Ultra Cover 2X white primer.

I apply a nice coat, let dry thoroughly, then apply another. Ideally, one coat per day, for about 4 coats. But 2 coats several hours apart, for two days, is probably OK. By the time the last coat is applied, the thickness of the primer should have brought the "bottom" of the primer in the 1/32" spiral to be high enough to be above the surface of the paper tube. When you are sure it is thick enough, then about 30 minutes after the last coat remove the masking tape, and let it dry for another day so all the coats can try to completely dry (this is why NOT give 4 coats in one day). Sometimes I give a coat of primer to the whole tube and then sand along the seam area. Other times after it dries I do not give it another primer coat, I sand the seam with the tube itself still bare.

This method means you do not end up filling and sanding the h*** out of the whole tube. You fill the area that actually needs it, the 1/16" to 3/32" wide spiral of primer. And best of all ,you only need to sand DOWN that 1/16-3/32" wide area.

Now, after the seam is sanded smooth, then I do add another primer coat or two. For one, to make sure the seam area really did get smooth, if not it will show up and can be sanded some more in the problem areas. For another, the primer is a good base for the later "real" paint. As well, this ensures that the primer that fills the seam matches the primer that is on the rest of the tube. If a putty was used, like say a green putty used for plastic models, that dark green requires a LOT of primer to get to not appear as a dark spiral underneath. Been there, done that, never again.

I know it may sound like a lot of time...... but the only real "time" spent with the process is first masking the tube, then days later, sanding the primer along the seam. Taking far less working time than sanding and sanding and sanding a whole tube that has been covered with primer that is 95 to 99% unnecessary and sanded away needlessly. Now, it does take "days" between beginning and ending, but the in-between work is about 2-3 minutes to spray another coat of primer and let dry for hours or for another day.

So, if it is something you are planning for in advance, it is not an issue. If it is a rocket you start finishing on Thursday night, that you want to look PERFECT to fly Saturday, that problem involves a solution (intervention?) which is beyond the scope of this thread! :)

I have had hit or miss results with some putties. Sometimes, good. Other times, the putty did not bond well enough to the paper tube, so it chipped away. So when that happened it was worse than worthless. A few cases I did individual repairs, a few others I used thinner to remove all the putty and start over with something else. So, TEST any putty method on scrap tubing, to make sure that it bonds to the tube very well.

Also, some putties dry "hard" (Like a putty used for plastic models). If you have a hard putty on a paper tube, guess what happens when you sand it? The tube wants to sand more easily than the putty does. So either the paper tube glassiene layer ends up getting sanded rough (bad), so then you have to fill THAT, or the seam simply never gets sanded flush to the tube because you are afraid of ruining the tube surface (not what you want either). So, again, test first.

Final thing, back to the Rustoleum Ultra Cover 2X white primer. It is really worth it! Chan Stevens suggested it and boy was that a top tip! It fills very well, goes on thicker than most primers do. Sands very nicely. And....

A couple of years ago, I was using another brand of primer. The tube was a BT-60 type of white tube, that had a dark spiral in its seam. I used the method I've described, and got a nice smooth surface with no physical spiral. But I could SEE the spiral as a dark spiral color. The stupid primer was partly TRANSLUCENT! The Rustoleum 2X is pretty darned opaque, it fixed that problem right away.

I also found that the Rustoleum 2X primer also works well for filling balsa, not just for noses of course , but also fins. Now, that does involve a lot of spraying and sanding, but the results were better than other methods I was using.

Now having said all of that..... most of my models do not have the seams filled. I just do not bother unless I have a really good reason to want to do it for specific models. Like for say a scale model. Of course I have some sport models that were not even built until a Friday night, and I only cared about flying them on Saturday, not that they looked pristine, so........

- George Gassaway
 
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The common options are the aforementioned Bondo Spot Putty (what I use), thinned Elmers Wood Fill 'n' Finish, and gallons of cheap primer.

The war is because the relative merits of the three are highly debated.
Bondo dries fast and is pretty easy to work with, but has nasty fumes. Not as bad as CA, but pretty nasty.
Elmer's stuff are nontoxic and human-friendly, but is slow to dry and shrinks during the process.
I've ended up accidentally doing filler work with priming/sanding, and it takes tons of time and primer, and will probably give you a Popeye arm. Benefit is defects are easy to see?

Hope that was a fair accounting.
 
Does anyone have a good technique or tool to use with the Bondo Spot and Glazing putty? I used if for the first time today --- usually have used the Filler Primer. I wasn't sure exactly how to apply it, so I put on some nitrile gloves and just smeared it into the spirals with my finger. It seemed to go on in a thicker than necessary layer, but if I tried to rub it or flatten it, it seemed to want to rub out of the spiral and come off the tube --- sort of all or nothing. Finally I just put it on as thick as it wants to be and will sand it out tomorrow. Does anyone have a tool or technique that will allow a thinner layer to be applied to the spiral?
 
Does anyone have a good technique or tool to use with the Bondo Spot and Glazing putty? I used if for the first time today --- usually have used the Filler Primer. I wasn't sure exactly how to apply it, so I put on some nitrile gloves and just smeared it into the spirals with my finger. It seemed to go on in a thicker than necessary layer, but if I tried to rub it or flatten it, it seemed to want to rub out of the spiral and come off the tube --- sort of all or nothing. Finally I just put it on as thick as it wants to be and will sand it out tomorrow. Does anyone have a tool or technique that will allow a thinner layer to be applied to the spiral?

Before I gave up on putties, I used a similar method as I described for spray primer, to mask off along the sides of the spiral seam. I used a scrap piece of plastic (say like a credit card, but I used sheet styrene scrap) as a "squeegee" to push the putty to fill in the gap between the masking tape. So, that left putty that was no wider than the masked gap and only slightly above the tube itself, the thickness of the tape. However the putty did shrink a little, leaving a bit of the seam sunk-in, but I think it was still above the surface of the tube.

- George Gassaway
 
Start with a fiberglass tube-then stop.
(Seriously-it's 90% elbow grease. After about 3" I go with the bondo/putty method and anything under looks like Diz's pile. ( I really wish he wouldn't have posted that pic. Someday I'll make a rocket made entirely of sandpaper-just for revenge)
 
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I've found that in some cases it works better to apply spot putty after you prime, less likely to get fuzzies :).
Rex
 
Does anyone have a good technique or tool to use with the Bondo Spot and Glazing putty? I used if for the first time today --- usually have used the Filler Primer. I wasn't sure exactly how to apply it, so I put on some nitrile gloves and just smeared it into the spirals with my finger. It seemed to go on in a thicker than necessary layer, but if I tried to rub it or flatten it, it seemed to want to rub out of the spiral and come off the tube --- sort of all or nothing. Finally I just put it on as thick as it wants to be and will sand it out tomorrow. Does anyone have a tool or technique that will allow a thinner layer to be applied to the spiral?
Credit card, it's saved me thousands of dollars. And the bank will give you a new one for free when you wear it out!
 
I've found that in some cases it works better to apply spot putty after you prime, less likely to get fuzzies :).
Rex

+1 to this. Especially if used with compatible lacquer-based auto primers. Not only can you see the spirals better after the first primer coat, the Bondo putty spreads better on dry primer (don't put it on before dry--an hour or so). The best choice can be found at Walmart, Rustoleum Filler-Primer, also in the automotive section near the Bondo spot putty.
 
I just want to be able to fill the spirals to:

1. Hopefully prevent potential zipper.
2. Get a nice smooth finish.

I'm not looking to start a war... :)
Filling the spirals won't prevent a zipper. I agree wholeheartedly with others here about the inexpensive and easy to find primer to use (Rustoleum Filler Primer #249279 from Walmart) and plan to try their Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty applied after priming technique.
 
Fiberglass veil layup.

Sand to desired level (with respirator).

Done.

Greg
 
Bondo does go on thick. I get best results by just glopping it on, then sanding back down. Way less work than sanding repeated coats of primer, IMO.
 
The EASIEST way is to just leave the spirals and never let anyone get closer than 10 feet from the rocket.
 
Nothing its going to look like crap after 2 or 3 flights so why bother.


TA
 
Uh, how about four layers of primer filler exactly where it needs to be, 3/32" wide or less, not 4 billion layers everywhere?

I do this:

Mask off the sides of the spiral seam.

<snip>

This is close to the method I use. I heard about this via HCMBanjo and one I perfected it I threw away my bucket of Elmer's CWF. In the past I'd spent a lot of time pushing a watered down mix of CWF into spirals but I can fill a spiral in a single day now using only primer.

The stuff I use comes from Lowes, I have no idea who else sells it but I'm sure it's not Lowes specific. It's 2-in-1 Fill and Finish primer. [edit - the correct name is "Rust-Oleum 2 in 1 Filler & Sandable"] It's very thick when it goes on and if I spray the spiral after masking 1/16th inch away I can get a very thick line into the spiral and sand it 2 hours later. Usually only 1 coat will fill a spiral but a deep one will need two.

Taping around the spiral is a must. It really saves time when you're sanding that spiral coat of primer off. Without the masking tape it takes 4 times longer and the additional primer all comes off anyway.

If I only put on one coat and sand it off, sometimes when I spray the entire rocket I'll still be able to see a slight spiral. Sanding off that layer until it's showing lots of tube solves that problem. The final coat of primer and light sanding makes all that go away.

No more putty or CWF for me. Using primer is the way to go for sure.
 
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I can fill a spiral in a single day now using only primer.

The stuff I use comes from Lowes, I have no idea who else sells it but I'm sure it's not Lowes specific. It's 2-in-1 Fill and Finish primer. It's very thick when it goes on and if I spray the spiral after masking 1/16th inch away I can get a very thick line into the spiral and sand it 2 hours later. Usually only 1 coat will fill a spiral but a deep one will need two.

Taping around the spiral is a must. It really saves time when you're sanding that spiral coat of primer off. Without the masking tape it takes 4 times longer and the additional primer all comes off anyway.

If I only put on one coat and sand it off, sometimes when I spray the entire rocket I'll still be able to see a slight spiral. Sanding off that layer until it's showing lots of tube solves that problem. The final coat of primer and light sanding makes all that go away.

No more putty or CWF for me. Using primer is the way to go for sure.
More specifics on that primer, please. The Lowes web site search function absolutely sucks accuracy-wise and nothing about a "2-in-1 Fill and Finish Primer" comes up with a Google search. The Rustoleum Filler Primer that I use definitely does not even come close to the one-coat performance you describe. More like many coats.
 
Winston wrote to Mushtang:

More specifics on that primer, please. The Lowes web site search function absolutely sucks accuracy-wise and nothing about a "2-in-1 Fill and Finish Primer" comes up with a Google search. The Rustoleum Filler Primer that I use definitely does not even come close to the one-coat performance you describe. More like many coats.

I do not know what Mushtang used. But I highly recommend the Rustoleum Ultra Cover 2X primer. Great stuff.

- George Gassaway
 
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