addimg nose weight to minnie magg ??

How much if any nose weight should I add to loc minie magg ? I will be flying mid H or possible I cessaroni reloads ? Thanks

I flew mine on AT 38/360ns reloads with no weight added.

It depends entirely on how "heavy" your build was. If you have a light touch with epoxy and built everything stock you can get away with zero nose weight in this bird. But it is also very common to see Minie Maggs that needed it. I added eight ounces to mine but it's a chunky monkey. I recommend this approach to be safe, which is what I did:

1) Find the CP and mark it on the rocket, there are conflicting CP values out there for this kit so either enter your components carefully into RockSim/Open Rocket or use one of the more conservative (forward) values.

2) Measure and mark 0.5 caliber forward of the CP, this is your target CG.

3) Prep your rocket with everything for flight, all recovery gear etc, along with the biggest motor you plan to use. You don't have to actually assemble the motor, just put the hardware in the rocket and tape the reload kit to the outside of the rocket over the motor mount area. Also tape a small cup or container near the tip of the nose cone.

4) Find something for a balance point (I simply used a piece of aluminum angle placed on the countertop) and put the rocket on this at your target CG location, then add BBs or some other kind of weight to the cup on the nose cone until it balances. Then just glue that ammount of weight into the nose cone (be sure to also add whatever the weight is of the cup/container you used) and you're done, safe and stable.

Holy crap 8oz? what did you do?


TA

thobin said:

Holy crap 8oz? what did you do?


TA

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I know it sounds like a lot but I think 8oz is pretty common for a Minie Magg...I've seen a bunch of other MM builders report using the same, in fact just yesterday here on TRF I noticed someone mention that they added 12oz nose weight to their Magg.

I know the instructions say the kit should weigh in around 3lbs but mine is 5.5lbs sitting on the pad fully loaded. Epoxy, paint, a metal Aeropack retainer (sometimes also the metal Aeropack 38-29 motor adapter), motor and hardware, kevlar shock cord, bigger chute, plus the half pound of nose weight. I think the only way to stay under the LOC estimates is to build completey stock (including the lame elastic shock cord) and use wood glue. But mine flies great, I just wouldn't go less than an H128 at an absolute minimum, better an H180 or larger.

I made a scratch Magg Clone. Because of thick CR's, I added 5oz of nose weight. It may need more, we'll see.

I'm going to pick up a Mag soon is why I ask and I do build a little heavy but not as aggressive as some. I use Loki 38mm motors and I want a nice fat slow park flyer and I want to use the Loki G80 but now i'm thinking not so much? I guess its time to run some sims.



TA

If you're able to build it such that you need zero nose weight you might be able to get away with a G80, but my recommendation is don't guess. Find your target CG and make sure it balances or add weight until it does, and only then run sims when you have the true specs for your actual build. Then you'll know what your minimum thrust is for a safe flight.

Ok just ran some sims and it looks like it needs the weight just to get it stable to fly with the even the smallest of 38mm motors. As for the Loki G80 it will do 600ft but only 31ft per off the pad. A eight foot rail, calm day and a short delay (5 sec) and it might work. It would be interesting to do a mini mag DDeploy just for fun of course.


TA

Something that small/short I will weigh all the parts and compare it with final build to get the final weight. With my preliminary sims 5 oz of nose weight will do it. But with out the final build weight and CG/CP you cant know for sure how much to add. I guess I can see how it could add up to 8oz real easy.



TA

Archetype's cable cutters would be an easy way to DD this kit!

My minie magg recieved some heavy coats of 6oz glass, wasn't sanded down for smoothness and has structural upgrades. It's not a "stock" Magg and I fly J's in it - I used just over a pound of weight in the nose and it flies incredible.

beezwax said:

Archetype's cable cutters would be an easy way to DD this kit!

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Yes my thoughts exactly, but where you going to put the DD altimeter and get a good reading? I am so on this.



TA

beezwax said:

Archetype's cable cutters would be an easy way to DD this kit!

Click to expand...

I'm working on that exact thing right now.

thobin said:

Yes my thoughts exactly, but where you going to put the DD altimeter and get a good reading? I am so on this.



TA

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I'm working on that very same issue for my L2 rocket.

thobin said:

Yes my thoughts exactly, but where you going to put the DD altimeter and get a good reading? I am so on this.



TA

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I'd mount it between the fins, next to the motor tube. You can cut a removable hatch for access in the body tube. Ive seen this done several times on short, stubby rockets. I'm planning on doing a build with this later in the year.

Alex

Aksrockets said:

I'd mount it between the fins, next to the motor tube. You can cut a removable hatch for access in the body tube. Ive seen this done several times on short, stubby rockets. I'm planning on doing a build with this later in the year.

Alex

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That seems to be the way to go other than it wouldn't really work with the Archetype's cable cutters maybe a Tender Descender.
Hummm! To the DRAWING BOARD! :horse: Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.

TA

Aksrockets said:

I'd mount it between the fins, next to the motor tube. You can cut a removable hatch for access in the body tube. Ive seen this done several times on short, stubby rockets. I'm planning on doing a build with this later in the year.

Alex

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I am planning on an internal tube which connects to the air behind a centering ring so as to not get affected by the separation charge.

Mow much weight... depends on your build and how much motor you're going to put in the back end. I'd not shoot for 1.0c stability, though. 0.75c will be PLENTY in a short, fat rocket like the Magg. Of course, your RSO has the final say on any flight, but really, this profile doesn't need a full caliber to be stable. Mine's routinely flown on 0.6 without stability issues. 3Oz is all I put in there, and in hindsight, that was a bit conservative.


Later!

--Coop

barry at loc said if you build normal, no weight is needed,im using epoxy, a flame blanket,shock cord protector, aero pack retainer, and i use a 3 grain casing ? i may add a few ounces,sounds like a pain to add weight ,dont want to screw up nose , they are 60.00 bucks lol

I did lots of nose weight research when I was (heavily) building my LOC Doorknob. In OpenRocket it showed I would need 29oz of nose weight to reach 1.0 cal of stability. Yuck. It turns out short, fat rockets are hard for Openrocket to calculate stability for because it has problems accounting for the "base drag", which helps keep rockets of this shape more stable than they would appear. I went with 12oz and it is rock steady, arrow straight, even when using CTI 6XL motors and a stiff breeze.
I also built my LOC Warlock on the heavy side, several wraps of fiberglass and tip to tip on the fins. I used no nose weight, and its still a good flyer, although it has a tendency to fly with the wind after motor burnout if there is a breeze. I am planning on adding about 6oz of nose weight, which should fix that.

It sims stable with a three grain motor with no weight on Open Rocket but just barely. You add more than a few Oz of epoxy and you might throw it off or at least be neutral stable witch in my opinion is the most dangerous way to fly. At least when the a rocket is unstable it doesn't get very far, neutral can go strait change direction go strait and when weight of the motor drops to a stable weight it's off to the sunset in the last direction pointing.



TA

thobin said:

Yes my thoughts exactly, but where you going to put the DD altimeter and get a good reading? I am so on this.



TA

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Inside the cavernous nose cone, with a bit of modding and some vent holes....less easy to set up than with a fiberglass nose cone but it could be done.

The Adept22 altimeter states that you need one diameter of body tube from the base of your nose cone to your static ports (at least) to get a proper reading. Now I'm not sure if that's for correct altitude reading or it directly effects the DD part of the altimeter? I don't know what other altimeters requirements are but I can assume they are similar.

Adept22: Instructions

When possible, vent holes should be a minimum of 4 body diameters below the junction of the nosecone with the rocket body. This is necessary with high performance (high speed) rockets. The tremendous pressure on the nosecone leeches down the rocket body as much as three or four body diameters before it dissipates. However, with lower speed rockets, the "minimum of 4 diameters" rule may be reduced to one or two.

https://www.adeptrocketry.com/ADEPT22ds.htm



TA

genzod said:

How much if any nose weight should I add to loc minie magg ? I will be flying mid H or possible I cessaroni reloads ? Thanks

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I found an easy way to handle this. If I am flying with Gs on a small field, I leave on the stock nosecone. If I am flying with 2-4 grain CTI 38mm motors I just swap out the nose for one of the 5.38 Long versions like comes on a Magnum. I realize this changes the look of the rocket, but I actually prefer it like that and it flies great that way, without the characteristic trajectory of most Minie Maggs. Ballast would accomplish the same thing, but this way I don't need to fiddle with ballast, just look at the nosecone on it and know what it is set up for. Simple as undoing the quick-link to make the change.

As a side note, the Pro29 6G H399 makes a great motor in these rockets and helps with the CP/CG by getting some of the weight more forward in the airframe.

Mark

thobin said:

The Adept22 altimeter states that you need one diameter of body tube from the base of your nose cone to your static ports (at least) to get a proper reading. Now I'm not sure if that's for correct altitude reading or it directly effects the DD part of the altimeter? I don't know what other altimeters requirements are but I can assume they are similar.

Adept22: Instructions

When possible, vent holes should be a minimum of 4 body diameters below the junction of the nosecone with the rocket body. This is necessary with high performance (high speed) rockets. The tremendous pressure on the nosecone leeches down the rocket body as much as three or four body diameters before it dissipates. However, with lower speed rockets, the "minimum of 4 diameters" rule may be reduced to one or two.

https://www.adeptrocketry.com/ADEPT22ds.htm



TA

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I know that's a standard guideline but the Archetype fellow has stated elsewhere that he's used the cable cutters with baro altimeters in the NC many times without problem:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?37812-Archetype-Rocketry-Presents&p=436146#post436146

I would set it up so that you have motor eject at apogee, then use an altimeter mounted in the NC to fire the main only. Drill some vent holes in the shoulder of the nose cone and your readings should be fine, the rocket will be in free-fall not under thrust at the time of the main​ event.

beezwax said:

I know that's a standard guideline but the Archetype fellow has stated elsewhere that he's used the cable cutters with baro altimeters in the NC many times without problem:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?37812-Archetype-Rocketry-Presents&p=436146#post436146

I would set it up so that you have motor eject at apogee, then use an altimeter mounted in the NC to fire the main only. Drill some vent holes in the shoulder of the nose cone and your readings should be fine, the rocket will be in free-fall not under thrust at the time of the main​ event.

Click to expand...

Sounds good, and it might help with weight distribution. With access to the nose cone you could change nose weight if needed.




TA

Fact of the matter is, while Maggie isn't morbidly obese, she's not exactly svelte, you dig. A bit... vertically challenged, one might say. She's only got 6.7 calibers of total length. I don't think you're going to be getting her fast enough to totally screw up a barometer in the NC to the point where it's worse than a motor eject. If you feel like building it up there... have at it! Or cut a hatch--either way.


Later!

--Coop

Flew mine on an I211 without an ounce of nose weight. Pretty much a stock build - except the 2 ounce glass to help cut down on the normal wear and tear of the cardboard body tube.

It went up straight as a string.

Just my 2 cents...

genzod said:

How much if any nose weight should I add to loc minie magg ? I will be flying mid H or possible I cessaroni reloads ? Thanks

Click to expand...

None, as previous posters mentioned, as well as the manufacturer. Long ago on this forum, someone said that as long as your CG is anywhere in front of the fins of a stock Minie Magg, then you are safe. Seems like a valid thumb rule.