Where do you buy your motors from?

So at my Hobby Town USA store I buy all my A-D motors. I went the other day to get an E motor and realized that they don't sell them. So I have been looking online. Well a pack of 3 E motors on Estes.com is $54! Apparently a big part of that is the cost to ship HazMat.

Then I go to Hobbylinc and they are selling the same thing with shipping for $23! Really? I understand there will be some disparity in pricing but over 50%? That's nuts.

Where do you get your E through G motors?

TheSamurai said:

So at my Hobby Town USA store I buy all my A-D motors. I went the other day to get an E motor and realized that they don't sell them. So I have been looking online. Well a pack of 3 E motors on Estes.com is $54! Apparently a big part of that is the cost to ship HazMat.

Then I go to Hobbylinc and they are selling the same thing with shipping for $23! Really? I understand there will be some disparity in pricing but over 50%? That's nuts.

Where do you get your E through G motors?

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Our vendor at club launches if possible...

Else, Hobbylinc is a great place to buy MPR motors.

I get my BP E's from Hobby Lobby with the coupon...

My E9-4's were $16.49 a 3 pak thru ehobbies, plus $10 in shipping thru USPS. Use the post office for engines, UPS & FEDEX have hazmat fees. Ehobbies is the cheapest place I've found so far for just about all rocket parts.. good luck!

I only get Estes E motors from brick and mortar hobby shops for that reason. The closest one to me that carries them is a HobbyTown USA in Albany, about 150 miles away. So it's an item that I get only if I happen to be down there for other reasons. Hazmat shipping charges for online orders can be mitigated by placing a large order, because the fee is charged per box. A box containing one 3-pack (or even one motor, if they were ever sold that way) will incur the $25 charge, but a box containing twenty 3-packs will also incur the same $25 charge. Spreading the charge over a large number of items obviously reduces the financial impact. For me, making the trip down to HobbyTown and back would cost me about as much in gas as the UPS charge for shipping plus Hazmat would be, so I would have to pay that premium in any event if I absolutely needed to get those motors right away, before I made my next regular trek back out to civilization. No such problem with E reloads though -- I can get them anytime for just the normal shipping charge via the US Postal System. Which is why I have multiple RMS 24/40 motors. :wink: Still, I have rockets that I like to fly that absolutely love those Estes E9s, and I do want to check out their E15s too; I haven't had an opportunity to get any of them yet.

As Mark posted I purchase my BP motors on-line generally in a large yearly order to get the very best price on the motors and spread the shipping and hazmat fee.
I also like to order from vendors I know with their procurement practice know so I can get motors that have not spent a lot of time in trailers during transport or storage. I've found that by placing my orders in the fall or early spring I can just about eliminate the change of old stock or summer heat cycled motors. buying for a flying season or two can present some challanges but it's more then worth it in keeping the cost per flight reasonable.

https://www.hobbylinc.com/

Hobby Linc seems to have the best overall prices. Last time I bought motors from Hobby Town I about had a heart attack, $9.99 for three A motors!! Thing is they wanted the same for C's You can see it's been a while since I bought motors, they cost more than that now.

I get the APCP reloads for Areotech as well as my black powder motors. Got a bunch I need to burn up

I will likely never need any more A, B, or C motors. I bought out our local walmart a year or so ago. 5o cents to 1.25 a pack. I have 3 huge ammo cans full of estes motors. I give them away to kids at launches.

I too purchase my BP motors here in Canada from an online store ,good prices ,cheap shipping and fast.I`ve been buying bulk packs of Quest and Estes for my A,B and Cs ,Ds & Es I now have plenty.....for now !


Paul T

cwbullet said:

I will likely never need any more A, B, or C motors. I bought out our local walmart a year or so ago. 5o cents to 1.25 a pack. I have 3 huge ammo cans full of estes motors. I give them away to kids at launches.

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Chuck,so do I.If I had known that I would leave mine at home! I only have 1 can full though.

I've used AC Supply Co, eHobbies, Hobbylinc, Tower Hobbies, and locally the Hobby Lobby. These are my go-to motor places. I don't fly above an E, so for F/G, I might first check out the Aerotech/Estes stuff at Hobby Lobby, and beyond that, check out Valuerockets.com as well as the places mentioned previously.

Yeah, Hobbylinc is quick and easy, though they've upped their minimum order for free shipping. Discount is 31-32% normally, and usu 2-5 products go on sale each week for 35-37% off. Their hazmat fees kick the @ss of everyone else - they ship hazmat engines as USPS ground/parcel and don't charge "extra"

Local clubs: If you start buying more "stuff" check with your local club - they may have vendors which will cut you 10% on stuff pre-ordered and delivered to a launch. My local Wildman dealer will. Plus no shipping cost.

Wildman(rocketry.com) shows all the AT hobbyline reloads at 35% off - 40% if you pay $30/yr to them for a membership. At 35% off, that's a whisker better than hobbylinc. As wtih all the rocketry-only vendors, the hazmat fee makes many larger single use motors not worth it - for $27-30 in addition to shipping, you may as well go to Hobbylinc.

*Performance Hobbies(.com) usu. has CTI reloads for 20% off, and they're 30% off until the end of this year.

*Balsa Machining(.com) has all of their high power Aerotech for 25% off is you're willing to pre-order and wait about a month or two for delivery. That includes the G138 reload for the Aerotech reloadable hobbyline case.

*Note: I've added these two because there are F and G engines which are considered "high power" due to average thrust (like the G138 for the Aerotech reloadable case and, well, most of the 24mm and 29mm G, and a couple of F motors from CTI (go to pro38.com, then choose pro24 or pro29 products). It would be worth flying your biggest rocket on an H128 with a borrowed case - or getting a certification special with the case! - just to be able to purchase and fly some of those 29mm CTI and the G138 reloads. Also, CTI reloads are as close as you can get to single-use and still have an aluminum case - and they come with better igniters than Aerotech. Figure $15-20 each at discount, but for Gs, that's on par with the Aerotech.

*Don't trust the website pricing. Send him an order, or call him, and as what the total is.

Ken with Performance Hobbies

I want to thank you all for your responses. The information will be invaluable when I start buying E motors and above. Heck I may even by my other motors online if it proves cheaper than Hobby Town. There is the whole waiting thing with online orders.

I purchased my cert motor from Apogee, but that was before my on-site vendor started stocking CTI. (Seems to not have been an issue tho, as I am STILL waiting on good flying weather for that one.)

I usually buy my motors from an on-site vendor, and have occasionally (well, once) purchased bulk packs online (direct from Quest) for my cub scout den. I will also sometimes buy BP motors from a local hobby shop because it's pretty much the last one in town, and I'd like it to stick around.

Either hobbylobby with the coupon or i drive down the street to apogee... im still on my boycott of htusa

BP: Hobby Lobby with 40% coupon, local hobby store, or at the range (Merlin Missiles, run by our club prez - Lee's a great guy).
AP: Merlin Missiles exclusively.

Is it possible to legally ship Estes E motors without paying Hazmat? I thought they were above the limit of propellant mass per package but now I'm confused.

UncleVanya said:

Is it possible to legally ship Estes E motors without paying Hazmat? I thought they were above the limit of propellant mass per package but now I'm confused.

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Confirmed each engine must have a max of 30g of propellant which is less than the 36g that Estes E9 and E12 engines have (source Thrustcurve.org). Any shipper sending Estes E engines would appear to be not in compliance with USPS requirements. It typically should require Hazmat to get Estest E engines shipped legally.

Source: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_016.htm

usps regulations said:

341.22 Mailable Explosives
The following specific types of explosives may be mailed only when the applicable conditions are met. Full responsibility rests with the mailer to comply with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) regulations before mailing.

Toy Propellant Devices. The proper shipping name for a toy propellant device is “model rocket motor” or “igniters.” A toy propellant device assigned UN0454 or NA0323 and classed as a Division 1.4S explosive is eligible for mailing in domestic mail via surface transportation only when prior written permission has been obtained from the Manager, Mailing Standards, USPS Headquarters, Washington, DC. A device approved for mailing is subject to the following conditions:
Each device must be ignitable by electrical means only; contain no more than 30 g (1.07 oz) of propellant; and produce less than 80 newton seconds of total impulse with thrust duration not less than 0.050 second.
Each device must be constructed so that all chemical ingredients are preloaded into a cylindrical paper or similarly constructed nonmetallic tube that does not fragment into sharp, hard pieces; must be designed so that it will not burst under normal conditions of use; must be incapable of spontaneous ignition under 500° F; and must not contain any type of explosive or pyrotechnic warhead other than a small, activation–charge, parachute–recovery system.
Each mailpiece containing approved devices must be prepared for mailing following Packaging Instruction 1A in Appendix C. A shipper’s declaration for dangerous goods is required.

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Just called my local Hobby Lobby and they carry the E9-6's (3 per pack) for 19.99! With the 40% off coupon I can get one of those 3 packs for about $13! Even cheaper and faster than Hobby Linc.

UncleVanya said:

Confirmed each engine must have a max of 30g of propellant which is less than the 36g that Estes E9 and E12 engines have (source Thrustcurve.org). Any shipper sending Estes E engines would appear to be not in compliance with USPS requirements. It typically should require Hazmat to get Estest E engines shipped legally.

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We're you looking for this...

Sport rocket motors with 62.5 grams or less of black powder or ammonium perchlorate composite propellant are classified as Division 1.4 Explosives. Within this overall 1.4 category, motors with more than 30 grams of propellant are classified as Division 1.4C (specifically, as Model Rocket Motor NA0276), while those with 30 grams or less are classified Division 1.4S (Model Rocket Motor NA0323). Most sport rocket manufacturers have a special DOT exemption that gives them permission to ship small quantities of sport rocket motors that are classified 1.4 (62.5 grams or less of propellant) as if these items were a lower hazard category called Flammable Solid (Division 4.1, UN1325). The packaging and labeling for 4.1 materials is less burdensome than for 1.4 materials. Most motors are shipped as Flammable Solids to individuals and hobby stores by the manufacturers and their distributors. Individual rocketeers are not parties to this DOT exemption and cannot ship motors as Flammable Solid (4.1), even if they can find a carrier who will accept and ship HAZMAT.

Source:https://www.nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

We are a full line Estes Dealer. If anyone needs good pricing on engines we can sure help. New to the site however, we have been selling engines for 2 years now. We carry A,B,C in bulk and 3 packs along with mini's. We are All Around Sporting on Ebay and Amazon. If this helps getting engines at wholesale pricing, email us or visit our amazon store.

EP197742 said:

We are a full line Estes Dealer. If anyone needs good pricing on engines we can sure help. New to the site however, we have been selling engines for 2 years now. We carry A,B,C in bulk and 3 packs along with mini's. We are All Around Sporting on Ebay and Amazon. If this helps getting engines at wholesale pricing, email us or visit our amazon store.

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Can you give us a link to some of your stuff?

I never did see my answer show up. We will try this and see if shows up.

Go to Ebay and click on advanced search. Then go to bottom of page and type in section "only buy from this seller" type in ep197742. Will take you right to the store. The name of the store is All Around Sporting. We have over 300 items. Engines are on Amazon or you can email us for direct quote.

They have had Estes E motors as well as a few of the B C & Ds at our local Frys Electronics. $20 and no hazmat for the E9s

https://www.frys.com/product/6614554?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Kenny

JordanT said:

Yeah, Hobbylinc is quick and easy, though they've upped their minimum order for free shipping. Discount is 31-32% normally, and usu 2-5 products go on sale each week for 35-37% off. Their hazmat fees kick the @ss of everyone else - they ship hazmat engines as USPS ground/parcel and don't charge "extra"

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Jordan I'm not sure if that's coming across the way you meant to say it but Hobbylinc definitely does not ship hazmat motors via USPS. There is no hazmat fee for motors shipped through USPS parcel post (ground service) because USPS will not ship them period. Those motors must go via UPS/FedEx with the extra fee. However USPS will ship some composite motors, even if they have more than 30g of total propellant mass, as long as the individual grains are less than 30g each. You'll notice with those reload kits that the individual grains are also separated from each other by being individually bagged within the reload kit. Estes "E" engines are just a single grain and larger than 30g so that's why the USPS won't take them, which is kind of funny since they will ship an I200W which has 175g of propellant, but divided into six grains each slightly under 30g. It seems like splitting hairs but that's how they draw the line. So it's more correct to say that Hobbylinc has decided only to sell motors that can go via USPS (DOT class 1.4S), they don't stock or sell any of the larger hazmat motors (DOT class 1.3C and 1.4C) that require shipment via UPS/FedEx with the extra fee. Here's a handy list of the Aerotech motors approved for shipment through USPS:

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/u...-bb17-47f1d7963824_usps_shippable_2-23-10.pdf

EDIT: hmmm, so after writing all that I just took a spin through Hobbylinc and I see that they are stocking some of the Estes E motors, so USPS is shipping those even though they have 36g propellant...obviously my understanding of this whole thing is muddled somewhere, hopefully someone else can clarify the situation better...

EDIT#2 so yeah I just reread this whole thread more carefully and I note that UncleVanya already raised this particular point (sorry I missed that on my first read)...I'm scratching my head, I really don't get it either as it would seem that Estes E motors should not be shippable through USPS. But now I am finding a bunch of online (mail order) retailers that are stocking them...can anyone explain how these 30+ g BP motors snuck under the wire?

In an effort to answer this question I did find this older thread about propellant weights and hazmat, but the consensus there is also that Estes E motors cannot go via USPS because they're over 30g:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?31603-Propellent-weight-amp-Haz-Mat&p=290301#post290301

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?31603-Propellent-weight-amp-Haz-Mat&p=290336#post290336

So I will spin this question off into a new thread in the propulsion forum in order to stop hijacking this one further...


EDIT: well that new thread is here:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?47862-Estes-quot-E-quot-motors-and-USPS-shipping

...and the answers are in. You can find a link there to the Estes MSDS forms which plainly state, "Engines with more than 30g of propellant may not be shipped by the USPS." So Hobbylinc and Fry's and all the other low-power rocketry retailers that are shipping Estes E motors through the mail are not doing so legally. But I suppose that's not likely to change until someone gets hit with a hefty fine.

So far I've been buying my BP motors from one of my two LHS. I pay retail+ doing so but until I'm able to place a big enough order online it's something I have to deal with. I can get AT reloads either at the closest LHS or from the club I launch with. No local source for CTI that I know of or I'd be using them.

I try to support my local vendors. Low power from one of the LHS, and mid/high power from our on-site vendor. Blast-Off flight packs from Michaels only with the 50% off coupon.