Learning R/C

As a kid I always wanted a R/C RBG. It was likely a good thing that I never got one as I certainly would have crashed it. With that said, I am starting to consider going that direction but realize that it is likely a good idea to get proficient in R/C aircraft in general before dealing with trying to grab control of a glider that is leaving boost. I have spent a while clicking around on RCGroups and it looks like most of the getting started threads there are similar to the What should I get for my first rocket threads here. Does anyone have any sound advice for a general direction with regard to an inexpensive R/C Trainer?

You will likely get many and varied answers.

What does inexpensive mean in your world? What size? Electric or fuel driven?

Not trying to be difficult but usually the best answer to this question is..."it all depends on .."

You may want to buy something that you can use in your eventual R/C BG or you may get hooked on R/C and end up with a 50% 3D airplane. So many options.

I wouldn't suggest anything but electric for a beginner. A cheap ready-to-fly three channel electric could be had for about $100-$150.

There are lots of resources on RC Groups to answer these sorts of questions. Try https://www.rcgroups.com/beginner-training-area-aircraft-electric-8/ for example.

Thanks Joe, I get what you are saying. I guess my real question is that I want to train to prepare for boost gliders so I'm not sure if the answer is a cheap electric trainer, a nitro trainer, or a sailplane. My assumption is that a sailplane would provide the most similar in-flight characteristics but I am guessing that the skill required to bring it out of boost would be quite different.

Check out the Hobbyzone Super Cub. It's a RTF, ready to fly, for under $200.00. Easy to fly, easy to repair and parts are readily available. I've taught a number of people to fly with this plane. it's a 3 channel plane which means your controls are throttle, rudder and elevator. I think beginners are better off with 3 channels and not 4 which is the addition of aileron control. Anyways, a nice park flyer to take to the schoolyard. here's a link to check out https://www.hobbyzone.com

I think getting a cheap electric plane is good advice. I bought one some time ago, but I have not gotten around to flying it. Shame on me.

I am sure that some rocket R/C flyers may touch the stick during boost, but some don't, but in any case even during the gliding phase there is not much practice time for the model rocketeer and there may be long stretches of time before the rocket modeler gets to the field. Hence, there may not be a lot of practice time for the R/C model rocket flyer with all things considered.

James,

I'd like to suggest a different option. While nothing beats the real thing, the advancements in RC flight simulators over the past few years have been nothing short of remarkable.

I have used the Realflight simulation system for the past several years.

One of the challenges of flying RC planes is that you need to learn the proper control input to the aircraft regardless of it's flying attitude or direction. The first time the plane flies directly at you, you will quickly learn that "left is right" and "right is left" with regards to aileron input.

You want to get to a point that you don't have to think about which way to move the sticks to get the airplane to react exactly as you intended but rather you do so instinctively. This leaning curve can only be accomplished by a lot of flying time. With that said, the problem with learning to fly with a real RC airplane is that you can be limited in your flights by the weather. Gusty winds are tough to deal with and should be avoided when learning to fly. Finding a suitable flying field and making the time to drive there can be a challenge.

None of these challenges happens with the flight simulators. Fly any time of the day or night right at home. If you crash your plane (and you will multiple times while learning to fly) you do not need to head for the workshop for repairs or the LHS for parts, you push a button and you are good to go again immediately.

And, once you have learned to fly, the sim is there for you to continue to practice and improve your flying skills whenever you feel the need.

Bob Brown

You may want to consider finding someone local to you who can show you some planes and discuss pros/cons in person and give you some one on one flight instruction. This thread lists folks who have volunteered to help others get started in RC and it is indexed by state and town. Maybe you can find someone nearby.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541484

If you lived in northern Colorado I would be happy to help you build a simple trainer, set it up, and get you in the air quickly. I would even loan you the equipment to try out before you spent any money to give you a chance to think about what electronics you want to invest it. If you plan to teach yourself and you are willing to build go with something like the Electric Orange Cub on RC Groups. You can build the airframe for a few dollars and will be able to repair any damage for next to nothing while learning a lot along the way. The electronics are the expensive part, though really not much now days, and are rarely damaged. If you build it yourself with standard hobby components they can be transferred to new/replacement planes. Be careful with RTF planes that use integrated or proprietary electronic and airframe parts because they will only be useful in that model and may be difficult/expensive to repair. If you want to talk on the phone, PM me and we can exchange contact info.

Definitely second the simulator option. Realflight 6 is amazing. You can also get the DX5e transmitter bundled with a flight simulator (Phoenix i think), but I don't know how it compares with Realflight.

If you are not going to learn on a simulator, definitely find a friend who can buddy-box with you.

ClearView has a simulator for around 40 bucks...It's not as cool as RealFlight but it's not $200 either. Depends on your budget.

As far as something fun to get your feet wet with RC plank flying, maybe look into an electric propelled glider style aircraft, light, slow and easy to control.

An ARTF model (almost ready to fly) would put you in a good spot to learn your own servos and radio and even re-task them towards your boost glider project.

https://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSBS8&P=7

Disaster_Guy said:

Thanks Joe, I get what you are saying. I guess my real question is that I want to train to prepare for boost gliders so I'm not sure if the answer is a cheap electric trainer, a nitro trainer, or a sailplane. My assumption is that a sailplane would provide the most similar in-flight characteristics but I am guessing that the skill required to bring it out of boost would be quite different.

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The boost is the rough part. The good news is once you get your glider set up the it should boost without any SIGNIFICANT input. The bad news is you need to fly it to get it set up. Bob brings up many factors that some of us tend to overlook. Windy conditions and worse, gusting conditions can cause issues that you can not anticipate.

The simulator is an excellent idea. When I learned to fly R/C there were no simulators. Heck, there were no personal computers. The learning curve was much longer between crash and the next flight. If there is a hobby shop near you many of them have simulator kiosks set up to promote the sale of the software. Try it out and it will give you an idea of what you are up against. Even the top R/C guys use simulators to try new maneuvers without risking their expensive planes or helicopters. Real Flight is the best in my opinion but it is what i am familiar with. Thery also have a basic version for $99. It works just as well and will teach you everything you need to know. It just doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the full blown model.

As Bob said learning left and right in all attitudes is imperative. Learning to not over control is next. It's not a computer game where you bang the stick back and forth. Small inputs, as in driving your car, are needed for precise control.

Disaster_Guy said:

Thanks Joe, I get what you are saying. I guess my real question is that I want to train to prepare for boost gliders so I'm not sure if the answer is a cheap electric trainer, a nitro trainer, or a sailplane. My assumption is that a sailplane would provide the most similar in-flight characteristics but I am guessing that the skill required to bring it out of boost would be quite different.

Click to expand...

You may want to look at an electric sailplane trainer, something like this: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16544__Hobbyking_Bixler_EPO_1400mm_ARF_.html

I have one and I'm very happy with it. I have a few years of R/C experience but I keep the Bixler for experimental stuff like autopilots. It's a very forgiving airframe with very forgiving flying characteristics and a decent glide for a powered airplane. Depending on what rocket gliders yuo want to fly, this may be a very close approximation. Few RCRGs offer truly gliding performance.

I second the suggestion to find someone who can help you learn. While it's a lot easier to teach yourself R/C with foam electric airplanes now than with wood nitro planes earlier, you can save yourself a lot of frustration if you get guidance from someone with experience.

Ari.

From my brief foray into RC planes (before I got a little helicopter, which I love ), I would definitely suggest something like Iter posted with a rear propeller.
There are some pretty amazing foam materials about there. I was in a hobby shop a few years ago and say a guy demonstrating how you could bend the wing of one of their planes literally ~89˚ without it breaking. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

I played around with RealFlight for a couple of months before I first flew my little handlaunched sailplanes, and I'm pretty convinced that the simulator experience paid off. I had some problems, but never once got that "left-right while it's coming toward you" confusion problem. and I've flown two sailplanes a couple of hundred times now without destroying either of them.

I bought a little electric park flyer as well, and have flown that around a fair amount without any trouble: I'm sure I've learned something from that as well. I'm pretty confident that I'd be able to fly the "down part" of an RC rocket boost glider as a result of my experiences. The most challenging part of that would be seeing the glider's orientation, I believe. You should think about asking for tips about that as well.

I have no idea, of course, how I'd handle the boost phase, and I suspect I'd be a complete beginner at that part despite my other experiences.

A lot of good advice. I would say that some of the key things you will need to learn/watch out for include the following.

1. Not over controlling as stated above. Small inputs, go for smooth until you have it all figured out.
2. Avoiding a death spiral. Keep the nose up in the turns. The control input on a 3 channel model (R/E/T) with the rudder and elevator on the right stick (if you set yours up that way) will be small arc shaped movements. I.e. move the stick to the side to initiate the turn, down to keep the nose up, back to center to level out.
3. Sorting out left and right. Visualize yourself in the cockpit. Once you get in that frame of mind there is no issue right is always right and left is always left.
4. To get started quickly, hand launching is probably much easier than a rolling takeoff.
5. Start with a big field with soft grass if possible and come in for shallow landings. Avoid tight spaces that require precise landings or "diving on the field" until you get it sorted out.
6. I believe practice with an electric trainer, and possibly a simulator although I've never used one, will prepare you well. The only problem I see is as already pointed out, if the boost is high you may have trouble seeing the orientation but you can control that with motor selection so your first boosts are in around a few hundred feet. The speed shouldn't be too much of a problem assuming a hands off boost because it will likely just stall at apogee and tip down and start flying on its own.

I've heard others recommend running any RC vehicle, including a car, around at high speed to help sort out the left/right issues.

I taught myself to fly 10 years ago. It went something like this. I bought a Graupner Tipsy electric pusher kit as I was leaving for a week long vacation in the mountains with the family. I built it and proceeded to crash it and break it on the first attempt. Glued it back together and tried again. Repeated the cycle several times until I was able to actually fly a few circuits around the field. By this point the plane was getting pretty heavy and harder to fly. I got home and realized the plane was really underpowered for its current condition. I spent some time surfing RC groups and came across a nice little Cub scratchbuild by Scott Alford (ScottA) in Australia (Warning: The thread is split into 3 linked threads that span over 2400 posts). I built one and really learned to fly on it. I've built over a dozen of that model in various scales for myself and others. I have built them with landing gear when I have a smooth surface for takeoff and landing, without gear for hand launch only conditions, with brushed motors and nickle cells, with brushless motors and lipos, with at least three different kinds of foam, finished naked, painted, covered in colored packing tape, etc. Everyone has been a good flyer, rugged, and easy to repair if needed. I highly recommend the scratch build route since you likely already have all of skill, glues, hobby knives, etc. from your rocket building.

I've built scale models, high perofmance models, fantasy designs, glassed, raw foam, with and without balsa, but I try to always have one of ScottA's cubs ready to fly. If I have a few minutes I can have a nice relaxing flight anytime on a small field.

Video
Mix of on board and hatcam video of relaxing low level flying.

I've put cameras on them and specced them out.

Video
Showing on board 4min video powered climb out to "high" and then cut motor and glide 4min to landing over interesting terrain.


I've owned a maybe a half dozen commercial kits or arfs and built several dozen scratch planes from RCgroups and my own plans. The scratchbuilds have all been better flyers, more rugged, easier to repair, and overall a much better experience. The one exception may be some EPP flying wings I bought from EdgeRC that were fantastic and practically indestructable; but not for beginners b/c of the speeds, roll rates, orientation challenges. https://www.edgerc.com/Pocket-250.htm and a cool flight video https://www.edgerc.com/J250movie.wmv and a cool video showing how tuff EPP wings are https://www.edgerc.com/PCWcrashtestmed.wmv.

Thanks guys. I think I will swing by the LHS within the next couple weeks and take a look at the $99 sim as well as what they have in the way of sailplanes and cheap three channel trainers.