EggFinder Mapping Tracking program

Hmmmmm,

I posted a question on the user group forum for YAAC, "Yet Another APRS Client",
about whether or not it would be feasible for that program to be able to monitor an incoming
NMEA,ISM stream. I mentioned how it was done with the Linux tracking program Xastir but to be honest to you, that program would be too hard for a non-ham, non-computer oriented person to implement.

Well low and beholden, unbeknownst to myself, Andrew, KA2DDO put the capability in YAAC to
monitor and display the NMEA stream coming in over a receiver (ie. either a connected USB EggFinder receiver or a B/T connected EggFinder receiver of any type.)

Hallelujah!

I have it going now and some screen saves are below. I ask that folks post some recommendations on some economical Windows tablets that have bluetooth capability and can do "Java". I'd like to see the device with an internal GPS so it would know where it's at or if it does B/T, can connect a cheap B/T GPS so it "knows" its position.
A 7 or 8 inch screen would be ideal.

All the Ham tracking programs are for the APRS format. This is the first tracking program that will allow one to have an "outboard" NMEA" stream, as the EggFinders/TRS send, display on a map that is COMPLETELY PORTABLE! Can download an open source map for free and have a self contained graphical solution with the EggFinder/TRS.

Here are the screensaves:



What you see is -11 is my "base" receive station which is were one would have a GPS stream coming into the program with "their" position. and -8 is the NMEA stream of the EggFinder coming in remotely! The resolution doesn't show much as the EggFinder is on a table upstairs and I am in the basement.

There is a "line of sight" option that show that rectangular view of the rocket to your location and you can call up the "GPS" window that show REMOTELY what the rocket GPS is seeing.

Three things:

1. I believe non-hams will be able to use this program after learning the interface.

2. There is the potential for a small tablet to be usable for portable tracking in the field.
It only needs to be able to run YAAC and have Bluetooth capability.

3. A free portable, Open Source mapset is available for downloading.

Kurt Savegnago

Kurt, this is very interesting. Looking at the YAAC page I don't see compatible Windows tablets listed. However, googling "YAAC on tablet" yielded some interesting results. ( I have a LOT more reading to do to understand how to make it work on a tablet.)

https://wa8lmf.net/WinbookTablet/

Will this be workable on an Andriod device....like a Samsung Galaxy Note 5?

+1 for Rich's suggestion.

Kurt is approaching a near ideal solution. I have been thinking/dreaming about something like this quite a bit lately, though I think it would be best to have the Eggfinder interface directly, either via bluetooth or a cord, to an Android or Apple phone. That way there would be both an incoming GPS signal from the rocket and a signal from the phone, and the total system would be very easy to carry and use in the field (assuming that there is a good app for all of this, of course.)

rharshberger said:

Will this be workable on an Andriod device....like a Samsung Galaxy Note 5?

Click to expand...

The forum says no Android compatibility. If a tablet can run a Java application YAAC should run. My quick venture with it showed it ran on a laptop. True it was a Linux laptop but if Java is on a Windows machine, the program should run.
I don't know anything about tablets but if Java works there, one should be able to download an open source map solution from https://download.geofabrik.de/ to get a portable mapset with YAAC. The thing is if this will work on a tablet and one is limited by memory/storage constraints, could just download the area of interest use it and then erase and put another mapset in.
I'll download YAAC and get it working on a Windows 7 machine and go from there for testing.

I've spent some time converting some USGS geotiff.pdf maps to the .tiff format so Xastir can read them and some really pretty maps can be made for Xastir: https://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usg...rd&carea=$ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2)/.do

Problem with Xastir is: 1. It's Linux only. 2. An easily had portable map solution is no longer out there. 3. Very high learning curve. 4. A perl script has to be started to feed the EggFinder data into the program in a fashion that mimics Ham Radio APRS
packets. Advantages: One can store the incoming EggFinder positions for later display/recall plus can directly store the data in multiple formats like .kml so one can directly use it with Google Earth.

None and I mean none of the Ham APRS tracking programs could process a second incoming NMEA GPS stream until now. They could input a GPS stream so one could see where their position is but all the other stations out there were plotted using a Terminal Node Controller device and radio from APRS packets. (Or be connected to the internet and an APRS-IS server)

The sweet thing about it is a non-ham should be able to use the program without issue at all.

I'm just a script kiddie and I originally posted a question on the Xastir forum and a fellow came back in a day with the perl script so I could see the EggFinder in Xastir. I posted an inquiry in the YAAC group two weeks ago and the author wrote me it was feasible. I just looked at the latest iteration of YAAC (#79) and took me all of 2 minutes to set it up. Took longer to fire up the Eggfinder GPS tracker and start receiving packets along with the pairing of the LCD receiver to the program.

Holee molee, my jaw dropped when I saw the packets coming in as I show in the screen saves.

Kurt Savegnago :jaw:

Worsaer said:

Kurt, this is very interesting. Looking at the YAAC page I don't see compatible Windows tablets listed. However, googling "YAAC on tablet" yielded some interesting results. ( I have a LOT more reading to do to understand how to make it work on a tablet.)

https://wa8lmf.net/WinbookTablet/

Click to expand...

That's for running the Ham Program Ui-View I believe. That's where you got the site from. I don't know anything about Tablets but will have to see if they can do Java. Kurt

ksaves2 said:

That's for running the Ham Program Ui-View I believe. That's where you got the site from. I don't know anything about Tablets but will have to see if they can do Java. Kurt

Click to expand...

https://wa8lmf.net/WinbookTablet/

Hmmmmm,

Looks like that tablet can run YAAC but would would either have to run a USB hub or wonder if the Bluetooth could pair with an outboard cheap GPS and the EggFinder LCD. Might be a possibility.

Addendum:

I heard back from Stephan Smith on this topic and it looks promising. This was publicly posted in answer to a question I had with the above link.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


The Winbook is essentially a standard Windows 8.1 PC in a tiny form factor,
with a very very small amount of "hard disk" space (actually flash memory).
ANY normal Windows software will run on the device, if you can cram it into the
4-5GB of free "disk" space.

It has built-in Bluetooth 4.0 which I have used with a Dual 150 GPS, a Logitech
480 BT keyboard (which also makes a nifty stand for the tablet - it has a slot
angled about 30 degrees that you can stick a tablet or smart phone into), and
various Bluetooth mice. Any Bluetooth gizmo that would work on a normal PC
should work on the tablet.

Any Java app should run on the tablet, -IF- you want to take the risk of
running the horribly security-challenged Java2 Runtime on your system. [Since
Oracle took over Java from it's originator (Sun Microsystems), it has been very
indifferent about updating it to address numerous security holes.]

I would strongly recommend:

1) Installing a 32 or 64GB micro-SD card into the available slot, which will
automagically become drive D: . Create a "\Program Files" folder there.
Then install ALL your new stuff there instead of on the internal drive. (I
have successfully installed a "full-boat" UIview setup including nearly all
plug-ins and Precision Mapping 9.0, MapPoint, TopoUSA, FLgigi, mmSSTV, mmTTY,
EasyPal, HRD/DM780, MS Office 2003, and various minor utilities on the added
flash card.)

2) Get into the control panel and disable Windows Update ASAP. The update
downloads will quickly fill up nearly the entire internal flash drive C: .
Then immunize the system against forced downloads of gigabytes of unwanted "Get
Windows 10" crapware (which will also completely fill up drive C by following
the details on my website at:

<https://WA8LMF.net/Windows10_Info>

It is especially important to install the "GWX Control Panel" in resident mode
to fend off the massive campaign Microsoft is launching in January to FORCE
unwanted Win 10 "upgrades" into millions of existing Win 7 and 8 systems.

I'm taking the plunge on a Winbook and see if I can get YAAC running on it. Stephen Smith confirmed the Winbook works with UI-View and bluetooth devices so this could lead to a relatively economical, portable, graphical mapping/tracking solution for the
EggFinders/TRS. Stay tuned. If one lives close to where they sell these things, could pick one up for a decent price.

GPS Rocket Locator will work without maps on an Android device and show two spots and a line to walk but it's nice to know what obstacles are in ones way or the nearest road one might be able to drive on. Yeah you can input the last know lat/long in a handheld mapping GPS but it would sure be nice to have it in an all-in-one device. If one happens to have a live internet connection on their Android device out at a launchsite, GPS Rocket Locator can download the maps live online.
Caching is an iffy proposition. Kurt

So wait... will this operate on a Windows PC?

blackbrandt said:

So wait... will this operate on a Windows PC?

Click to expand...

Yes,

As long as it can run a Java program it should run. I whacked the only running Windows PC in my house and have to get another one up and running. YAAC can be installed in a Windows computer.

The first time one would go under "File" scroll to "Configure" and select "by Wizard". Now if one isn't a Ham under Station Callsign type something like "Rocket" or something like that. Under SSID do "0". "Hit Next"

Under "What kind of station you operating" hit mobile and you can select whatever icon you want. I use \O for a Rocket. They got a "missile" in there now if you want to do that too. Hit "next". You want a serial GPS connect to your device you hit that and then it will ask for your parameters or you can use a fixed lat/long for your testing.
Hit next and it will ask to "Add and Configure interfaces" just hit "next and get out of there. "Enable station beacon" and leave it unchecked and next will exit this setup cycle.

Now make sure the EggFinder receiver is connected properly to your computer whether USB or Bluetooth and it's there under devices. Go back to the "File" pulldown, go to Configure and this time select "Expert Mode". O.k., you'll see a whole bunch of scary stuff here but it's not that bad. Go right to the middle on the top where the choices are and hit "Ports". Go down and hit "Add". Now you'll get another "scary" screen but never fear go to the upper right where it says "Port type" Hit the pull down and out of all those choices you want to chose "Serial GPS". You'll now get another setup window. If your EggFinder receiver is connected and going, you may see it under "Device Name" pick it and the Baud rate that's 9600.
Next Waypoints is "none", and here is the real kicker, under "GPS is" you hit remote. Then you can name the Remote GPS and can give it a symbol. I don't know if "enable reporting remote GPS as APRS Object" needs to be clicked to get the EggFinder
displayed but you can try both ways. Once this stuff is setup you should be able to get it working.

If you go back to the "View" pulldown, you can Show GPS status and it should give you a choice to see the GPS feeding your laptop or the GPS coming in from the EggFinder.

Oh I forgot, also under "View" go down to "Local Station" and select crosshair/pointer or APRS symbol so it displays your position on the map that you either have typed in fixed or
YAAC use your GPS that's feeding your laptop. Other things you can do under that Configure menu (where we set the port for the Eggfinder) under Beacon hit report altitude.

Now, I am a Ham and have played YAAC a lot. Since non-Hams won't be connecting this up to a Ham radio there won't be any issues. It took me 5 minutes to get this going with my fixed station at home once I found out.
My jaw dropped when I saw my rocket icon from the EggFinder displayed on the map.

I've got to try a TRS and see how that does. I believe the GPS altitude will be displayed.

I will have to work with it some more. It might log packets but I don't know if that can be done with the incoming NMEA words. I think it can. Kurt Savegnago

I was looking for another windows tablet that would run Java, preferably one that may have tech support.

This one doesn't look too bad:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NGXW8TO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Worsaer said:

I was looking for another windows tablet that would run Java, preferably one that may have tech support.

This one doesn't look too bad:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NGXW8TO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

If you shop around - you can probably find this Dell Venue under $90 bucks - only one issue with this one... I can find NO info spec's whatever that say's it includes an internal GPS.

Most every inexpensive ANDROID powered tablet includes GPS... But I'm finding it difficult to locate an inexpensive Windows based tablet with GPS.

ksaves2 said:

I've got to try a TRS and see how that does. I believe the GPS altitude will be displayed.

Click to expand...

You are correct. The baro altitude that shows up on the LCD display is non-NMEA data, so an NMEA-aware program is just going to throw it away.

scsager said:

If you shop around - you can probably find this Dell Venue under $90 bucks - only one issue with this one... I can find NO info spec's whatever that say's it includes an internal GPS.

Most every inexpensive ANDROID powered tablet includes GPS... But I'm finding it difficult to locate an inexpensive Windows based tablet with GPS.

Click to expand...

However is it a satellite based GPS or cell tower based like the phones are....ones a heckuva lot more accurate than the other, and works when cell towers are not available.

rharshberger said:

However is it a satellite based GPS or cell tower based like the phones are....ones a heckuva lot more accurate than the other, and works when cell towers are not available.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid one will have to bond a B/T GPS to the tablet. A year ago there were a pile of Royaltek RBT 1000's for the taking on Ebay. I got one for $16.00. Now only economical one has no model number or instructions. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royaltek-B...hash=item21039255f9:m:mqyVkzZG0fU2Hcg7xTivAYQ

The RBT 1000 is working fine for other uses and I expect it will bind with a tablet. I'm waiting for a WinBook to arrive and try to see what I can get going on it. I have "stuff" like OTG cables and external batteries from my Nexus 7 2013 that I believe can carry over for use.

The only question is if the device can handle the data influx simultaneously without getting squirrely. I have trouble with a B/T keyboard on my N7 misbehaving but it might be a keyboard problem.


There is this device that is dual boot to Android or Windows with a a serious short coming: https://www.pipo-store.com/pipo-x9.html

12V only so that would be a problem to carry it out to the recovery site. Kurt

Found out tonight online that the HP computer I erased is still under warranty. Am going to try to contact and see if I can get something to reload an OS on it. There was nothing of critical importance on it as the games were all old and reloadable not like the newer, "you're licensed once and have to beg or buy to reload" out there. So if I can get "something" on it maybe I can get YAAC going there and configure it as if the user is not a licensed Ham operator.

Kurt Savegnago

Update on where I'm at with YAAC for non-ham use. I still have a dorked windows computer so I haven't been able to set it up there yet. I found out the
computer is still under warranty so perhaps HP will have a remedy. That aside, since YAAC is a java app, I can run it on a linux box and the setup there would be similar to a Windows installation.

I setup YAAC as if I were a non-ham and was successful. I sent a request to the author to perhaps see if he could simplify the setup "by Wizard" to allow one to use a non-standard name for their receiving station and also have a choice to setup their port where the serial NMEA data is coming in from the EggFinder. I can get it to work fine because I'm familiar with the program but it's a bit bass akwards. Plus, when I close YAAC, I have to input the
receiving station name in again the next time I open it up.

If the author can put all that in the setup "by Wizard" screen, it will be a piece of cake for a non-ham to set this thing up to track their rockets on a portable map.

Yeah, bummer it's not an Android app but the potential to run on a cheap 7 or 8" Winbook is a consolation. I made an attempt to run YAAC on an XP guest on this Ubuntu linux laptop I'm on now but I couldn't get at the Bluetooth link I'm using for the EggFinder receiver. The receiver is a simple EF receiver and not the EggFinder LCD. I don't think I could stand the incessant beeping during the testing!:surprised:

I do have a USB EggFinder receiver I'm going to plug in and the Linux Vbox host can handle a wired USB connection fine. Will try that when I get home
plus use another GPS receiver to input for the receive station position.

My goal is to make the setup and instructions as easy as possible so a non-ham can use this. Is it perfect? Heck no. None of the tracking software out there is. Example: For APRS tracking the venerable, old UI-View can "record" the screen, save it and one can play it back like a VCR in real time.
None of the free tracking programs out there can do that trick. Stay tuned. Two shots below show YAAC with "ROCK" as the EggFinder receiver position and "ROCKET" as the EggFinder GPS tracker out in the parking lot in my vehicle.
The second shot is a picture from Xastir that has two maps overlaid. A simple shapefile for streets and roads and a converted
USGS topographical geopdf. Xastir can display the rocket icon with information next to it. It is a pretty picture though. Too bad it is way too hard to setup for a casual
user.


Kurt Savegnago

Local Station is ROCKET-4 and I see it has a trail which makes it nice when one
is going out to the rocket. In this case the EggFinder is on a dresser
at the other end of the house. The Local Station GPS is being monitored
in the upper left window.







The Missile is the EF tracker and the upper window is monitoring theGPSdata
coming in from the EggFinder GPS.



This is a zoomed out picture of Peoria, Illinois for comparison. Again the advantage here is the software and maps are all free
so there is no risk invested there. Just the cost of a Win tablet.


This is going to be nice if it can be had on a 7 or 8" tablet. Waiting for the tablet to arrive Kurt

Hmmm.

Well, YAAC runs really nice on the Winbook except one little detail can't appropriately pair the HC-06 module. It puts it on two (2) comm ports! I've never seen that happen before.
The little Winbook has a nice screen too. Well, I'll post some questions on a few forums and see if I can find out something. Same thing happens if I try to pair the AP510 GPS APRS tracker.

I did go through the power management window as I couldn't get a B/T mouse and keyboard to stay connected and I turned off the option for the OS to shut off B/T to save power. That helped for those
devices.

Sooooo, I'm disappointed with this but at least folks know not to bother with it unless I can get this sorted out. I even tried just connecting the EF LCD receiver by itself and still it came up with two comm ports.

Didn't have this problem under Linux or Android. GPS Rocket Locator I guess will remain the only tracking software one can use on a small device. It will at least work without the maps. Kurt

Ok,

Not all for lost. Since the Winbook has a full sized USB 2 socket, I plugged in an EggFinder receiver into it and after downloading the driver from Cris site, was able to get it connected. Looks good but boy oh boy, hope I can figure out how to get B/T to pair
properly so I can use it without wires. Yeah, I can search for a USB port but I wouldn't be able to take advantage of all the channels on the EggFinder LCD.

Kurt Savegnago

ksaves2 said:

Well, YAAC runs really nice on the Winbook except one little detail can't appropriately pair the HC-06 module. It puts it on two (2) comm ports! I've never seen that happen before. ...

Click to expand...

I am not a Bluetooth expert but my experience has been that Windows creates two com ports when paired to some devices. My understanding is that one is for an "outgoing connection" and one is for an "incoming connection". I believe it is the one for "outgoing connections" that you want to use when the connection is initiated by a program running under Windows. I know on Win7 you can open the Bluetooth Settings dialog and see which com port is which. However, you can always just try one and then the other. Did you try specifying one or the other to the YAAC program? I would expect one to work and open a connection to your HC-06 module. The other will act "dead" and will not work.

Thanks for the comment Vern. Yeah, I noticed two ports when I paired the old Royaltek GPS module. I had to chose the one that had the data streaming through it. I tried either of the ports when I paired with the HC-06 and the EggFinder receiver and couldn't get it to stream data. I'll give it another shot. Kurt Savegnago

Yeah,

Tried again and gave it a shot with both comm ports and the YAAC setup program just locks. Device manager
shows the two ports. Under one of the Bluetooth windows one is supposed to be "incoming" and the other "outgoing". It's really too bad because my APRS transceiver AP510 and my Mobilinkd B/T kiss TNC both transmit
and receive. The Android utilities work with both of those devices and they run fine under Linux also. No Bluetooth issues there. I couldn't get the AP510 to pair properly with the Winbook as it can be used with YAAC too. In Linux it gets connected to /dev/rfcomm"X" and I just tell the app where it's at and up it comes.

In fact running Linux, since YAAC is a Java app, I can pair the outboard B/T GPS receiver for my local position and an EggFinder receiver with the HC-06 Bluetooth module and it works perfectly. Places the incoming serial NMEA data of the rocket right on the map with an icon of one's chosing. The 1/sec update rate is nice for resolution as long as the packets are received as opposed to the once every 5 seconds an APRS tracker sends. Of course that is ok for recovery purposes and most APRS trackers have onboard memory to store the GPS positions at a higher data rate.
(The Byonics stuff didn't have onboard memory)
I'm going to post on some ham sites and see if I can get any further information of getting B/T to pair. Certainly the Mobilinkd and AP510 users might have had some luck and I might be able to learn something there.
Having a graphical receiving station for the prospect of $70.00 or less with a TW700 is mighty enticing.
I will say one thing about the TW801, it has a full size USB port, I can stick a keyboard on it and a balky B/T mouse I couldn't get to work consistently with Linux works great. If I let it sit it has to come back on but just a little lag before the pointer starts to move. Power can be fed directly to a small OTG USB port. I got a 3.5amp aftermarket power supply 'cause it's a power hog. Has the potential of running Burnsim, RAS Aero or any other favorite sim software easily out in the field.

Kurt Savegnago