Apogee SV ?

AfterBurners · May 18, 2019

I'm kicking around the idea of building this kit using a 5 engine cluster. A center 29 and (4) 24s. Was wondering if that would be too much stress on the airframe? I don't have the kit so I can't tell if the airframe is that cheap flimsy tubes used on other kits from Apogee or if it's actually the standard thickness of what most kits are today? I don't think it needs to have a heavy wall airframe with that configuration? I'm going with 3/16 lite ply rings and probably 3?
Any thoughts, concerns or gotchas??

prfesser · May 18, 2019

With BP motors it should be fine, as it's generally launched with a G80. (I never launched mine, couldn't bear to after I'd put so much time into it...)

Composites might be ok too as long as you're not going overboard. A central I motor with four Gs would probably be inadvisable.

AfterBurners · May 18, 2019

I was thinking 5 engines with a central 29 and four 24's ? Where would you put the nose weight because I'm sure it will need it. I don't have the kit, but where would you put it?

prfesser · May 19, 2019

I would avoid putting the nose weight in the capsule as that would surely cause it to come off at ejection. Perhaps a few rings of plumbing solder epoxied to the inside of the service module. Be sure to leave clearance for the capsule's shoulder.

AfterBurners · May 20, 2019

prfesser said:
I would avoid putting the nose weight in the capsule as that would surely cause it to come off at ejection. Perhaps a few rings of plumbing solder epoxied to the inside of the service module. Be sure to leave clearance for the capsule's shoulder.

That's not a bad idea. What is the quality of the kit? I'd hate to cluster this thing then have it shred. Is the airframe thick enough??

James Harechmak · May 20, 2019

The main body tube is thicker than an Estes tube but not as thick as a Loc tube. If nobody ponies up a measurement before I get home from work in the morning I'll put a caliper on it and post the thickness.

AfterBurners · May 20, 2019

James Harechmak said:
The main body tube is thicker than an Estes tube but not as thick as a Loc tube. If nobody ponies up a measurement before I get home from work in the morning I'll put a caliper on it and post the thickness.

You don't have to post it. It's cool, just want to have an idea of the thickness.

AfterBurners · May 21, 2019

James Harechmak said:
The main body tube is thicker than an Estes tube but not as thick as a Loc tube. If nobody ponies up a measurement before I get home from work in the morning I'll put a caliper on it and post the thickness.

Do you think the kit is worth the price Apogee is selling for based on what you get the quality of parts? I know they put a lot into, but $300 plus is a lot of cash to shell out for card board and balsa. If the kit came with an optional cluster configuration(s) or interchangeable motor mounts that might justify it? IDK I want to get it but having a hard time pulling the trigger and if I did buy you can bet your butt I'm gonna launch it on the biggest motor I can stuff inside of it regardless of how much time I have in it. That's just how I roll.

James Harechmak · May 22, 2019

AfterBurners said:
Do you think the kit is worth the price Apogee is selling for based on what you get the quality of parts? I know they put a lot into, but $300 plus is a lot of cash to shell out for card board and balsa. If the kit came with an optional cluster configuration(s) or interchangeable motor mounts that might justify it? IDK I want to get it but having a hard time pulling the trigger and if I did buy you can bet your butt I'm gonna launch it on the biggest motor I can stuff inside of it regardless of how much time I have in it. That's just how I roll.

The only fault I have with the kit is the quality of the half round balsa used for the wiring tunnels, the ones in my kit were very fuzzy and super soft. Everything else is top notch quality wise. I think with the quality and engineering TVM is on point with this kit.

prfesser · May 22, 2019

AfterBurners said:
Do you think the kit is worth the price Apogee is selling for based on what you get the quality of parts? I know they put a lot into, but $300 plus is a lot of cash to shell out for card board and balsa. If the kit came with an optional cluster configuration(s) or interchangeable motor mounts that might justify it? IDK I want to get it but having a hard time pulling the trigger and if I did buy you can bet your butt I'm gonna launch it on the biggest motor I can stuff inside of it regardless of how much time I have in it. That's just how I roll.

You're not paying $300+ for just balsa and cardboard. You're getting the skull sweat that TVM put into the kit; amortization of the molds that produced the CM, escape tower, fins, wraps, nozzles, and other details; extra cost of custom tubes needed for the proper scale; production of DVDs (printed instructions would have filled a small book and been far more difficult to follow)...

The only issue I recall during construction was that one of the wraps was slightly undersized. That being said...yes, it's worth the cost. A rocket that big and that detailed that still falls under the weight limit for a waiver is quite an accomplishment.

And your idea of an interchangeable motor mount wouldn't be too difficult to implement, I think. Now if only I'd thought of that before I started construction...

Best -- Terry

AfterBurners · May 22, 2019

prfesser said:
You're not paying $300+ for just balsa and cardboard. You're getting the skull sweat that TVM put into the kit; amortization of the molds that produced the CM, escape tower, fins, wraps, nozzles, and other details; extra cost of custom tubes needed for the proper scale; production of DVDs (printed instructions would have filled a small book and been far more difficult to follow)...

The only issue I recall during construction was that one of the wraps was slightly undersized. That being said...yes, it's worth the cost. A rocket that big and that detailed that still falls under the weight limit for a waiver is quite an accomplishment.

And your idea of an interchangeable motor mount wouldn't be too difficult to implement, I think. Now if only I'd thought of that before I started construction...

Best -- Terry

Thank You Terry!

heada · May 22, 2019

If you're worried about strength, go up a size and get the LOC kit. $550 but thick wall cardboard and fiberglass parts. No where near the detail but it'll fly on 5x54mm, 1x75mm+4x38mm or 1x98mm+4x29mm. Not as detailed nor as scale but it'll take a beating. It can set up for DD for a little extra $$ too.

https://locprecision.com/product/loc-custom-saturn-v/

AfterBurners · May 22, 2019

heada said:
If you're worried about strength, go up a size and get the LOC kit. $550 but thick wall cardboard and fiberglass parts. No where near the detail but it'll fly on 5x54mm, 1x75mm+4x38mm or 1x98mm+4x29mm. Not as detailed nor as scale but it'll take a beating. It can set up for DD for a little extra $$ too.

https://locprecision.com/product/loc-custom-saturn-v/

I would, but not in my budget right now. I might even consider the Apogee SB1 as well?

AfterBurners · May 23, 2019

prfesser said:
You're not paying $300+ for just balsa and cardboard. You're getting the skull sweat that TVM put into the kit; amortization of the molds that produced the CM, escape tower, fins, wraps, nozzles, and other details; extra cost of custom tubes needed for the proper scale; production of DVDs (printed instructions would have filled a small book and been far more difficult to follow)...

The only issue I recall during construction was that one of the wraps was slightly undersized. That being said...yes, it's worth the cost. A rocket that big and that detailed that still falls under the weight limit for a waiver is quite an accomplishment.

And your idea of an interchangeable motor mount wouldn't be too difficult to implement, I think. Now if only I'd thought of that before I started construction...

Best -- Terry

Terry did the kit come with the old style Dynastar chutes or the newer chutes he has on his website that have the Apogee name in the center

prfesser · May 23, 2019

AfterBurners said:
Terry did the kit come with the old style Dynastar chutes or the newer chutes he has on his website that have the Apogee name in the center

Mine was one of the first ones sold, way back when. I got in on the ground floor when Tim was planning to bring out the Saturns. He needed money to jumpstart the process, and anyone who pre-paid for the Saturn V would get the Saturn IB free. My checkbook came out so fast it was smoking! Took about a year, if memory serves, til the kits came out. I still have the IB kit, opened but never assembled. One of these days...

Best -- Terry

AfterBurners · May 23, 2019

prfesser said:
Mine was one of the first ones sold, way back when. I got in on the ground floor when Tim was planning to bring out the Saturns. He needed money to jumpstart the process, and anyone who pre-paid for the Saturn V would get the Saturn IB free. My checkbook came out so fast it was smoking! Took about a year, if memory serves, til the kits came out. I still have the IB kit, opened but never assembled. One of these days...

Best -- Terry

Yeah I hear ya on pulling the trigger. Me it's time. Theres never enough of it and when I have it on the weekends I'm always playing catch up on other more pending things. So I get it. Yeah both kits are exceptional and have a great amount of detail.

Daddyisabar · May 23, 2019

I can only dream of having those kits. The Apogee tubes are good quality but thin by Heman High Power standards. The kit is for old school builders - build light, build strong. Real old farts want slow, NASA style lift offs to remind them of their youth. I once saw one go on a G80 in a little to much wind and it was awesome! like a sail the horizontal movement off the rod seemed to match the vertical. Big, light and high drag rockets with questionable stability aren't fer children. That Apogee SV flew again on an H, much better but suffered a recovery glitch. All that guy could do was to pick up the bits and have a good cry. Then he said he had bought two and that another one was in the box at home Waiting to be built to a higher level of finish, the first one was just for practice. That is one lucky guy!

AfterBurners · May 23, 2019

Daddyisabar said:
I can only dream of having those kits. The Apogee tubes are good quality but thin by Heman High Power standards. The kit is for old school builders - build light, build strong. Real old farts want slow, NASA style lift offs to remind them of their youth. I once saw one go on a G80 in a little to much wind and it was awesome! like a sail the horizontal movement off the rod seemed to match the vertical. Big, light and high drag rockets with questionable stability aren't fer children. That Apogee SV flew again on an H, much better but suffered a recovery glitch. All that guy could do was to pick up the bits and have a good cry. Then he said he had bought two and that another one was in the box at home Waiting to be built to a higher level of finish, the first one was just for practice. That is one lucky guy!

Yeah I don't have that kind of money to throw around. Even so its back to finding the amount of time. If a I were to buy either SV or S1B it would be something I would take several months to build and do a 5 star job on it. I would probably add little upgrades along the way, but not much to change the overall stability of the rocket. I would probably go with a 3 chute recovery with the classic orange and white chutes. On the paint scheme not sure is actual standard scale I'm thinking gloss white and semi gloss black roll patterns or semi gloss white and flat black roll patterns? Not sure what would look best?

Daddyisabar · May 23, 2019

Paint it up with easy to use gloss then coat it all with matte clear for the scale look. Get some cloudy matte finish to simulate scale frost and ice! Such scale beauty would hasten the heart rates of the old farts, making the pace makers kick in to prevent a coronary from all the excitement!

Apogee SV ?

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