Phenolic Airframe Choices

Other than Giant Leap, Red Arrow Hobbies and PML, who else sells phenolic tubing? Secondly, whose would you use? I have used Giant Leaps tubing in the past, as well as PML (I prefer Giant Leaps over PML), but I want to know what else is out there.

Those are the only choices I know of. +1 on Giant Leap over PML. Any tube that breaks when it merely falls over is too brittle for me. But if you want to galss it, it may not matter much. I think If I was thinking phenolic, I'd try Blue Tube instead.

Is Red Arrow still around?

I agree. Give Blue Tube a try and you'll be very pleased.

rstaff3 said:

Those are the only choices I know of. +1 on Giant Leap over PML. Any tube that breaks when it merely falls over is too brittle for me. But if you want to galss it, it may not matter much. I think If I was thinking phenolic, I'd try Blue Tube instead.

Is Red Arrow still around?

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Another nod to BlueTube.

As I've ranted about before, I simply don't "get" regular phenolic. In my experience it's terribly brittle - as Dick alluded to "....that breaks when it merely falls over....". I've had good rockets (made with Phenolic tubing) simply shatter into tiny pieces in situations that really weren't all that "extreme". Regular paperboard tubing is cheaper, lighter, and in the real world just as "durable". Yes, you could glass over phenolic, but to me that seems like a lot of extra time/money/effort for gains that could be had by simply choosing glass tubing or........BlueTube.

BlueTube is fantastic - VERY tough in actual real-world flying/transporting/handling AND rough landings. Much easier to work with than fiberglass and cheaper to boot. Folks say it swells and warps, but in my experience I've never had these issues - and I fly in very hot desert conditions quite a lot. Honestly, for all the properties that phenolic tubing is supposed to be good for, BlueTube does it better.

Forget phenolic - build with BlueTube and be happy.

s6

Try Mac performance Rocketry. They have a canvas phenolic tube that is fantastic. No spirals. As strong as fiberglass at half the weight. Http://www.macperformancerocketry.com

I know of a little shop in Indiana that carrys Pflexable Phenolic tubes. Phlexable is not as brittle. I will knock over a tube on concreat to show it wont crack or brake like standard phenolic dose. Polish Thunder III was made with it with the equivalent to a K 840 and no issues.

Bob, does this little shop in Indiana have 38mm Pflexable couplers?

I was looking at Blue Tube2.0 as that is what I have for an avionics bay... but the cost was twice that of phenolic... Maybe I will go with the Blue after-all... how moisture sensitive is Blue Tube 2.0 now?

Have a GLR Escape Velocity, had the main get stuck on me once and it came down hard on drogue from 7500'. Other than having to shake the Earth out of it, no damage whatsoever. Good stuff, that Magna Frame...

DRAGON64 said:

I was looking at Blue Tube2.0 as that is what I have for an avionics bay... but the cost was twice that of phenolic... Maybe I will go with the Blue after-all... how moisture sensitive is Blue Tube 2.0 now?

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Well, if you take a core sample and forget to empty it for a week the tube is all distorted and needs cut off / tossed. Otherwise, I haven't had issues with the couple I have. I did seal the couplers / inside of the body tube to try make sure I was ok.

grouch said:

Bob, does this little shop in Indiana have 38mm Pflexable couplers?

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Yes I think so..

+1 for the flexible phenolic that Red Arrow sells. Great stuff(I've built 4"-7.5" rockets with it), I've beat the crud out of it multiple times - it wont shatter like PML - but its not quite as stiff. I do glass over it, but I like glassing. Still much lighter and cheaper than solid glass tubing (which is also very nice).

I have 1 rocket made from blue tube 2.0. I don't fly in a desert, but on the east coast, so high humidity and the occasional water landing are normal hazards. Also tough stuff, especially "sealed" with a layer of 6oz glass over it ;-). I did seal the inside as well with thin epoxy "just in case". Main complaint is the motor tube - over time it has warped some - dunno if its the humidity, heat or the stress of the motor thrust, but it is getting dang tight to get a motor in and out. Originally a motor would slip in and fall out with ease. One of these days I'll have to cut it off the motor. I won't use blue tube for a motor mount again.

I have a rocket that is getting rebuilt from a crash in 2009 (nothing left but fin can), and it has Giant Leap and PML phenolic in it now, as well as a Blue Tube avionics kit... well rounded in its use of rebuild materials now. What I have in mind now is a 54mm rocket with a 38mm motor mount... I already have the Blue Tune avionics kit for it.

Like some of you, I too like glassing airframes, so I will probably give a nod to Giant Leap again for their Phenolic... it is half the cost of Blue Tube 2.0.

AndyC said:

+1 for the flexible phenolic. Main complaint is the motor tube - over time it has warped some - dunno if its the humidity, heat or the stress of the motor thrust, but it is getting dang tight to get a motor in and out. Originally a motor would slip in and fall out with ease. One of these days I'll have to cut it off the motor. I won't use blue tube for a motor mount again.

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As far as the motor mount being too tight, I use a flap sander on a long extension on a drill to open them up on other materials. Should work on blue tube also I would think.

Adrian

No 54mm airframe at Mac. I will get an order off to Giant Leap later this week. Thanks all for the replies!

PML Phenolic works fine, but you do have to glass it.

Over the years I have witnessed 3 anomalies with PML phenolic; Coupler swell from humidity causing a 6" Patriot to penetrate Mother Earth (end result: annihilation); a PML AMRAAM core sample the field (end result: no damage); and then I saw a PML component scratch build, which was leaning against a car, tip over and hit the ground... the coupler blew through the side of the PML phenolic... the most damage from the lowest impact I have ever witnessed. PML is too brittle for my liking, so I have glassed airframes in the past. I have also used the Quantum tube from PML, and although I never had an issue, I never liked working with the material.

PML's phenolic has the same characteristics as that of an egg; great strength end to end, yet crush-able from the side wall. I am using a small section of PML airframe in a build I am needing to finish up, but I have used heavy 6oz glass for the work:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?54386-Resurrecting-The-Black-Dahlia&p=544350#post544350