Branson's launch, Sunday July 11, '21

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Hi TRF colleagues,

Notice how we have gotten diverted into whether reference is being made to statute miles or nautical miles.

This demonstrates another advantage of the metric system, which measures distances in kilometres. A kilometre (that is, of course, 1000 metres as we all know) is used whether measuring distance on the land, on the sea, or in the air. No confusion or ambiguity exists.

Stanley
 
Tech 68 said:
Good for him! He did it with money he earned...
I'm sure there would be people that would find fault with all the money I've thrown at my Level 3 project (fortunately not my wife ❤).
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You probably would be amazed at how many jealous poor people over on an Elon Musk Facebook group I help moderate are complaining about the money Branson spent on that event, saying gee he coulda used that money to help the poor. They do the same for Elon of course. Mainly they are jealous parasites looking for a handout; they don't want a hand up mind you, they just bitch nobody is giving them free stuff. But when you ask them what they have done to help the poor, nothing, nada, not the slightest bit.
 
Branson and the others "help the poor" by providing jobs. That's our capitalistic economy. In a service-technology based economy, the way to get out of poverty is through education which leads to jobs which leads to prosperity. It's not an instant process... but it's sustainable. Simply handing out money, shelter, or food to the poor is not sustainable... and in the end is it not an effective remedy, either.
 
Cerving, you are right. Giving out free stuff is only at best a very short term stopgap measure. If continued, they become dependent on you, and fail to try to improve their lot. See it with geese at the park, it works with people too.

The old saw "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he feeds himself for the rest of his life".
 
A line in space? Where there's still a measurable atmosphere?
It's all arbitrary until you go beyond the distance humans have previously reached: that would be the moon's orbit.
Or beyond the Earth's influence, or the Sun's influence, but even those are not precise.
Units are irrelevant in these cases.
I'll define "space" in this context as "in orbit": Yuri was the first, but he was merely a rider in a vehicle designed and constructed by others.
It'll be a while before anyone reaches orbit in a home-brew vehicle.
Still, congratulations to Sir Richard, Burt Rutan and the whole team!
 
Pete.D said:
A line in space? Where there's still a measurable atmosphere?
It's all arbitrary until you go beyond the distance humans have previously reached: that would be the moon's orbit.
Or beyond the Earth's influence, or the Sun's influence, but even those are not precise.
Units are irrelevant in these cases.
I'll define "space" in this context as "in orbit": Yuri was the first, but he was merely a rider in a vehicle designed and constructed by others.
It'll be a while before anyone reaches orbit in a home-brew vehicle.
Still, congratulations to Sir Richard, Burt Rutan and the whole team!
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Agreed. People are putting too much importance on the Karman line. It's just as arbitrary as USAF/NASA's 50 miles.
 
Antares JS said:
Agreed. People are putting too much importance on the Karman line. It's just as arbitrary as USAF/NASA's 50 miles.
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Agreed with the agreed. To me, it's Alan Shepard compared to John Glenn.

Neither Branson nor Bezos will achieve orbit. Going that high up and coming back down safely is HARD to do, no question. But to me the question isn't about reaching "space" or not, it's being able to stay there for a while once you get there.

It's jumping really far vs flying.
 
MClark said:
Branson has done extreme flights (attempt) all his life. Really it’s a logical step in his adventures.
He said decades ago he was going into space and did it. Bravo!

He is paying wages for a lot of people who built it and launch. And central New Mexico certainly can use the tourist business from the ground bound spectators.
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*Southern New Mexico* We heard the sonic boom here in Las Cruces.
 
The promotional hyperbole is what stings. ¨Open the frontiers of space to everyone.¨ I´ll keep this in mind in case I ever find myself with $250,000 and six weeks to spare. Then I too can join the likes of Everyone.

Ok. What really grinds my gears is seeing the three of Branson, Bezos, and Musk lumped together on the news and in popular memes. Branson is working on a thrill ride. Bezos is, so far, working on a thrill ride — with aspirations for New Glen which will be an orbital rocket with serious potential. Musk´s SpaceX has become a well established workhorse delivering real assets (including actual astronauts) to orbit with the most reliable platform in history. At a fraction of the cost. He also conducted a deep space launch which was admittedly a stunt — but was a successful deep space launch nonetheless.
 
rklapp said:
I don't think it's really space until the vehicle can take off in Florida and land in California. To do that, Bronson will need a bigger spaceship.
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Ahh, the interesting part... Spaceports are being contemplated and built here and there. Scotland is working on one. Global travel is an interesting potential for this technology. As you say, 6 passengers from Florida to Singapore is going to be a VERY pricy ticket.

But here again, Musk dominates the discussion space by suggesting that Starship carry hundreds of passengers per flight.
 
tokind said:
Ahh, the interesting part... Spaceports are being contemplated and built here and there. Scotland is working on one. Global travel is an interesting potential for this technology. As you say, 6 passengers from Florida to Singapore is going to be a VERY pricy ticket.

But here again, Musk dominates the discussion space by suggesting that Starship carry hundreds of passengers per flight.
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OK, I'll do the math as best I can on Starship.
Total mass of propellant for the Starship only is 1200 MT = 1.2 million kg. For the sake of argument, let's say that the fuel:eek:xygen ratio by mass is stoichiometric, or exactly 1:4. In reality, it'll probably be a little fuel rich, but that's down in the weeds. That means 240 MT of LNG and 960 MT of LOX. LNG costs $120/ton now, and LOX costs in the neighborhood of $35/ton. These costs are off the internet and may be a little dated, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

All of that adds up to about $65K in fuel costs for the Starship flight, plus a WAG of another $50K in personnel costs (boarding, flight attendant(s), baggage handling, control, pilots if the vehicle isn't fully autonomous, etc.). Throw in some money to recoup capital expenses, and you're looking at a bare minimum of $200K, and probably more like $500K for the flight. At 100 passengers/flight, that actually starts to look moderately reasonable.
 
mach7 said:
Except for the fact that the Wright brothers created a whole new technology (yes, based on earlier works) and made it work.

What Virgin did today was insignificant and kind of pointless considering it has been done before by others. Nothing new or groundbreaking.

I think Virgin missed their opportunity by a 5-10 years, but thats just my opinion, time will tell.

SpaceX wins, Branson loses. Bezos has probably lost also, but that story is still being written.
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To your point; In an interview after SpaceShipOne won the X-Prize, Burt Rutan who designed the airship said words to the effect that ¨The embarrassing thing is that we might have done this in the seventies. I didn't have the vision to imagine it.¨
 
PayLoad said:
I am not at all busting on those that have interest in this. Good on ya.

But am I the only guy who could not care less about some billionaire sending himself to "space" for a few minutes?
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Well it marks the start of a new industry. It's like releasing a new car, opening a new restaurant in town, or seeing a trailer for a new summer blockbuster, except it's going to space. It's like Lamborghini releasing a new car, no one can afford it but it's still interesting.
 
boatgeek said:
OK, I'll do the math as best I can on Starship.
Total mass of propellant for the Starship only is 1200 MT = 1.2 million kg. For the sake of argument, let's say that the fuel:eek:xygen ratio by mass is stoichiometric, or exactly 1:4. In reality, it'll probably be a little fuel rich, but that's down in the weeds. That means 240 MT of LNG and 960 MT of LOX. LNG costs $120/ton now, and LOX costs in the neighborhood of $35/ton. These costs are off the internet and may be a little dated, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

All of that adds up to about $65K in fuel costs for the Starship flight, plus a WAG of another $50K in personnel costs (boarding, flight attendant(s), baggage handling, control, pilots if the vehicle isn't fully autonomous, etc.). Throw in some money to recoup capital expenses, and you're looking at a bare minimum of $200K, and probably more like $500K for the flight. At 100 passengers/flight, that actually starts to look moderately reasonable.
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Don't forget the cost of the Beluga Caviar...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beluga-Hybrid-Caviar-HUSxBAE-17-6-oz/523347125
 
PayLoad said:
But am I the only guy who could not care less about some billionaire sending himself to "space" for a few minutes?
Click to expand...

Hi TRF colleagues,

No, you are not the only person who couldn't care less about some billionaire's joy ride. I couldn't care less either.

What the United States should be doing with space is getting all of American humanity involved in exploring and colonizing the moon (Luna). That would benefit all of us.

Stanley
 
One of my rocketry friends drives a long haul truck and is stuck in San Antonio due to a DEF (emissions) malfunction. He had the misfortune to watch 'the view' yesterday (be careful folks) and saw an editorial about how Branson could donate all his money and buy meals for people instead. Since I lived in SoCal for years, "gag me with a spoon!!!" Every time someone does something space related you hear that whiny bulls*it. As a previous poster noted, people that work are getting salaries from Virgin and to be fair (and jealous), it's probably lots of fun working there.
It's a hybrid launched from a jet but I'm certain some of the tech will make its way to mainstream.

Cheers / Robert
 
RobertH3 said:
... an editorial about how Branson could donate all his money and buy meals for people instead...
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So could any government, bank and other big businesses, aerospace or not, so picking on Branson in particular is creepy.
 

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