Black powder choice

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AtomicStorm

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Wondering if it matters what type of black powder you use in your deployment charges. I have seen alot of people using the fffg or pyrodex but my brother is into guns and has some bp that is another brand, would that be ok to use?
 
This isn't exactly related to the question, but I had an impossible task of finding anybody who sold FFFF.
My end of the line discovery was an vendor online called Grafs (https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5450)
and the catch was that you had to buy (4) 1lb canisters.

So with all the shipping and hazmat fees, it cost me $112.72.

Not sure what I'll ever do with 4lbs of FFFF Black Powder. Maybe I should join a civil war reenactment to burn it up. lol
But if you're like me, and can't find anybody locally selling 4F, there are online options (although few online options).
 
I used to get 4f black powder from Coonies explosives in Hobbs, New Mexico. I don't think they have a website but do orders by phone (575) 393-0166. It's been several years since I've gotten any more.
 
While Pyrodex powders do work, they don't generate as much volume of "gas" as the original black powder, which is what you need to get the parachute out. Pyrodex does have the advantage of less corrosive residue, which is why it's used in muzzle loaders. I've heard rocketeers say "when using Pyrodex, just add a bit more".

4F black powder is hard to get where I live (Netherlands), as it is strictly controlled, and the finer 4F is only used for muzzle-loading pistols, where 3F is used for rifles and such. There's just not enough of a market for muzzle-loading pistols here to keep it in stock, or I would have to special-order 4F at an extra charge.

So, I've got 3F black powder, works fine.
 
Don't make your own! Why risk a rocket trying to save pennies? Plus, how long does it take? What's your time worth?
 
Don't make your own! Why risk a rocket trying to save pennies? Plus, how long does it take? What's your time worth?
In general I agree with you but some here have multiple hobbies and sometimes one of those other hobbies is pyrotechnics (fireworks) If one of your hobbies is fireworks, you make 10's of pounds of BP every year if not more. You know very well how it compares with commercial BP.

For 99% of people in rocketry, just buy a pound of commercial 4Fg and you'll be set for years.
 
Newbie question, since I'd like to learn DD and am trying to get a handle on what's involved.
When I go to sites that sell black powder, the following is part of the description -
What is required to purchase black powder?
If 50 pounds or less of commercially manufactured black powder is being purchased, and the powder is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempt from the term “destructive device” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4), no form is required. However, if the black powder is being purchased for any other purpose (regardless of quantity), the purchaser or other transferee must possess a federal explosives license or permit.
Do I get a federal license/permit, rely on someone from the local club, or something else...?
 
If you're just starting out, find someone in a local club that has done electronic deployment before. This is for several reasons:

1) They can mentor you on what electronics you buy, how you can modify an existing kit or what new kit to buy to learn on, be a source for BP for your learning flight(s)
2) They may know a local source for BP
3) You can go in on a purchase of BP in the future to help spread HazMat costs
4) They (should) know not only the federal regulations but also state and local regulations about owning/storing BP
5) They more than likely have purchased a pound of BP in the past. For L1/L2 flights, you only need up to about 5 grams of BP per flight(2.5grams for drogue, 2.5grams for main, more than enough for a 4" rocket). That is nearly 100 flights per pound. They could sell you a dozen flights worth and not notice the impact on their supply.

That said, if you can't/won't find a local mentor, there are a few ways to read the federal regulations and only your lawyer would be able to get you legal advice. The best/easiest way *I* know to ensure that you're complying with the federal regs is to buy a BP firearm.(I am not a lawyer) You could also obtain a LEP (Low Explosives Permit) from the BATFE
 
Those kits are a rip off. Save half that cost buying the comps individually elsewhere. Their KNO3 and S8 are fine though overpriced, but the charcoal is the worst ever--you would probably get better results using a bag of Cowboy brand lump charcoal from the grill. Even Skylighter says you need to mill the straight BP kits for adequate results, but with that crummy generic hardwood charcoal you'll get mediocre speed BP even with milling. And don't even consider their "red gum BP" kits. They're even more horrible. Those kit-made BPs are entirely inadequate for rocketry, though you can make some pretty fountains with them. It all comes down to the charcoal--free and easy to make your own, though you can purchase hot charcoal for a premium (eastern red cedar, paulownia, alder, willow...). Makes all the world of difference in burn rates.
 
Don't make your own! Why risk a rocket trying to save pennies? Plus, how long does it take? What's your time worth?

.

Making your own Black Power is simple, inexpensive, and therapeutic. My BP has worked great for separation charges for years.

Telling people not to make their own BP, is like telling people not to bake their own bread. It is a hobby.

I also dabble in Pyrotechnics. It is easy to burn up BP when making your own BP rockets.

I have never tried it in a BP Muzzle Loader, but that would be another hobby that would require BP.

It can give you a great sense of accomplishment knowing you created BP yourself.

I even make my own charcoal from Eastern Red Cedar shavings used for animal bedding.

There are several places that sell "BP KITS", but it's better to buy your components in bulk. There is no hazmat fee on the individual components. It is very easy to make.

Commercial FFFF is foolproof, however.

ALWAYS GROUND TEST no matter what type of BP you use.

Zeke
 
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Newbie question, since I'd like to learn DD and am trying to get a handle on what's involved.
When I go to sites that sell black powder, the following is part of the description -
What is required to purchase black powder?
If 50 pounds or less of commercially manufactured black powder is being purchased, and the powder is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempt from the term “destructive device” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4), no form is required. However, if the black powder is being purchased for any other purpose (regardless of quantity), the purchaser or other transferee must possess a federal explosives license or permit.
Do I get a federal license/permit, rely on someone from the local club, or something else...?

The legal answer is this: Intend to use it solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms or in antique devices exempt from the term "destructive device". Antique firearms and cannon are a lot of fun. 4F powder is needed to prime a flintlock rifle or pistol. You do not need to own one to prove intent but it doesn't hurt. If you use it for any other purposes, keep it to yourself.
 
I get my 4fg from Midway and have never seen that advisory. And I have bought BP for years.
most companies have a we don't ask you what it's going to be used for and most smart consumers don't volunteer what the use is going to be.....plausible deniability.... aka wink wink nod nod. Just in case you didn't know 4Fg BP is used in the flash pan of a muzzleloader rifle as a primer.
 
Wish i could just shove an igniter in a firecracker and put it in a little 410 casing for my charges lol redneck rocketry lol i might actually try that.
 
Wish i could just shove an igniter in a firecracker and put it in a little 410 casing for my charges lol redneck rocketry lol i might actually try that.
Ehh.... don't. A firecracker is not what you want; those are quite 'brisant' meaning it's more likely to blow a hole in the side of your rocket than to eject the parachute. You want blackpowder, which burns (relatively) slowly and generates lots of gas rather than lots of shock. There are things besides blackpowder which might work, also - crimson powder has been used, for example - but you don't want flash powder - which is what is in firecrackers.
 
Wish i could just shove an igniter in a firecracker and put it in a little 410 casing for my charges lol redneck rocketry lol i might actually try that.
Firecrackers are limited to 50 milligrams of powder, which might be flash powder instead of black powder. Lots of noise, not enough gas. Ground test before flying.
I’m always amazed at how hard people work to avoid buying black powder. Aerotech sell prepackaged replacement ejection charges. I posted a link further up. Some of our vendors sell it. Or, look for the older rocketeers at a launch and ask if they can spare some.
 
I think i have some 2f or 1fg, what happens when you use that? Not enough pressure?
 
Don't make your own! Why risk a rocket trying to save pennies? Plus, how long does it take? What's your time worth?

I agree royally on this. Don't make your own like don't make your own ematches either. Early on in the hobby (>15 years ago) I had to order 5lbs. of 4F from a firearms concern when I was first starting out in rocketry. I was nicely surprised no FOID was required although I would have happily started in the shooting sports if there was a range nearby. There wasn't so no reason to own a firearm.
I keep it in a cool dry place (actually in a little safe) and it still works fine when I need it. 5lbs. will likely last me until I'm planted in the ground next to my wife. Have hardly gotten through the first can of 5.

Kurt
 
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