POLL: LPR Plan packs: Yea or Nay?

[neil_w]

Hi, folks. I've been saying for a while that I'd love to have one (or more) of my designs kitted by a manufacturer. At this point it seems unlikely, and under no circumstances could I bag and sell my own kits.

I've been idly wondering if folks had any interest in plan packs. I know Shrox sold them for a while, but I haven't the slightest idea if anyone bought them. To a certain degree the info on JimZ's size amounts to free-to-download plan packs.

Would anyone be interested in acquiring plan packs for original designs, either free-to-download online or in a paid physical package? If a paid package, what would expect to be in it to justify the expense?

Please note that I am nowhere close to doing this, really just curious whether this is something that could be a viable option in the future.

Looking forward to your comments.

 

[kuririn]

I have downloaded free plans from JimZ and YORP, as well as paid for plan packs from Shrox and TLP.
The Shrox plan pack for the Skonk Wulf included decals as well as the instructions and templates, which made it worthwhile for me. If it's a design I really like and have to have I would consider paying for it, say around $15 or less.

 

[neil_w]

I have downloaded free plans from JimZ and YORP, as well as paid for plan packs from Shrox and TLP.
The Shrox plan pack for the Skonk Wulf included decals as well as the instructions and templates, which made it worthwhile for me. If it's a design I really like and have to have I would consider paying for it, say around $15 or less.

Thanks. Did the Shrox packs have real waterslides? Could you tell if they were "real" or just home-printed (I mean, those are real too, but you know what I mean). What did the TLP packs have in them?

 

[jqavins]

I voted yes and willing to pay. The "certain condition", of course, is price. A few bucks for a verified design is OK, but not if it even thinks about aproaching a kit price.

Edit: I should have read the thread before posting about my vote.

What I assumed a "plan pack" to be, and what I was talking about, is a download that includes an RS and/or OR file; PDFs, JPGs or some such of templates; instructions; and printable artwork. For all that with nothing physical, plus the assurance that the design has been build and successfully flown, I'd pay five or ten dollars and happily.

 

[neil_w]

I voted yes and willing to pay. The "certain condition", of course, is price. A few bucks for a verified design is OK, but not if it even thinks about aproaching a kit price.

It certainly should not approach a kit price. The main thing that could be included in a for-pay plan pack is decals. A more ambitious approach could include laser-cut balsa, which saves the hand-cutting some builders have trouble with, and enables some designs that require higher levels of precision. Dunno if I'd want to take that step, though, certainly not at the beginning.

Has a plan pack ever included cut balsa?

 

[kuririn]

The Skonk Wulf decals are waterslides, but I don't remember if they were home printed or silk screened. Would have to find my bagged parts for that somewhere in one of my build piles. The TLP packs look like they existed before the kits. Like the kits there are no decals, but all the full size fin templates and shroud/nozzle patterns were included. Instructions list all the parts, and even tell you how to roll your own tubes (!).
I'm thinking maybe you can offer decals (either home printed water slides or Cricut cut vinyl) as an option. Some people actually prefer vinyl to water slides. For others have a high quality decal scan included in the instructions at no cost.

 

[kuririn]

Has a plan pack ever included cut balsa?

Negative, plan packs have NO parts (well, maybe decals) whatsoever.

 

[dr wogz]

Excelsior decals had some plan packs, Goonies mainly.

This I would go for:
plans, templates, and decals. $5-10, depending..

And yeah, something proven to fly, not "please test this, and revise as needed to fly"

 

[neil_w]

And yeah, something proven to fly, not "please test this, and revise as needed to fly"

Absolutely. There would also of course need to be beta testers to confirm.

 

[dr wogz]

( a little jab at M$ & Windows 10! )

 

[kuririn]

Absolutely. There would also of course need to be beta testers to confirm.

 

[Nytrunner]

5$ - Flight proven
2$ - "Flier discretion advised"

 

[les]

You've got some great designs.
Just plans - maybe $2 ~$5 max (obviously prefer free)
With decals, $10 ~ $15 (unless super complex decals, like the Interceptor with multiple sheets, which would obviously justify a higher price.

 

[neil_w]

I think the way I would do it is:

1. Free plans online
2. Hardcopy with instructions, printed cardstock, templates, and laser decals (or vinyl, whichever the design calls for) for a nominal fee

Might start with #1, and see if anyone wants them. if not, no point in moving on to #2. Not looking to make any actual money here (pretty sure there is none to be made. )

 

[Nytrunner]

You know what they say: How do you make 10,000 dollars by going into the rocket business? Start with 20,000 dollars

 

[kuririn]

Might start with #1, and see if anyone wants them. if not, no point in moving on to #2. Not looking to make any actual money here (pretty sure there is none to be made. )

IMHO you should start with both options. #1 is for experienced cloners and cheapskates like me. #2 is for those that want something a little nicer and more professional. If you offer #1 first you squelch the demand for #2.

 

[lakeroadster]

Proceed with caution. With the liability issues associated with such a venture.... it seems problematic at best.

By the time you bought and carried liability insurance you'd more than likely be questioning your sanity.

 

[mbeels]

It depends, would you stop doing build threads on TRF? Would you have "plan-pack" exclusive designs? Or would you do both?

 

[afadeev]

5$ - Flight proven
2$ - "Flier discretion advised"

Yes.
I would prepend "1" to the above price points (otherwise, why bother!), and am prepared to cut the check to back that up.
Prepend "2" if it's something uniquely complex, 5+ level of difficulty, that will require customer support and/or mental breakdown counseling for the duration of assembly. Same commitment.

a

P.S.: Excessive utilization of straight, funky, and curvilinear fins is strongly suggested.

 

[jqavins]

You've got some great designs.
Just plans - maybe $2 ~$5 max (obviously prefer free)
With decals, $10 ~ $15 (unless super complex decals, like the Interceptor with multiple sheets, which would obviously justify a higher price.

I think the way I would do it is:

1. Free plans online
2. Hardcopy with instructions, printed cardstock, templates, and laser decals (or vinyl, whichever the design calls for) for a nominal fee

I'm curious, as neither of these seems to describe what I assumed. Les, would you pay more (sorry) for an in between level where there are PDFs of the decals and templates, and detailed instructions? Neil, do you see a place for a #1½ like that? Call it a "digital design pack". #1 you already provide in your build threads, since they always include your OR files.

 

[neil_w]

By the time you bought and carried liability insurance you'd more than likely be questioning your sanity.

That ship has already sailed. Good point about liability insurance, though; not quite sure what would be necessary for this sort of thing. All the more reason I would prefer an established company to deal with this stuff for me.

It depends, would you stop doing build threads on TRF? Would you have "plan-pack" exclusive designs? Or would you do both?

Ha, I'll be doing build threads until TRF bans me, no worries there. I would consider the build thread to be a useful adjunct to the instructions.

Excessive utilization of straight, funky, and curvilinear fins is strongly suggested.

That's a safe bet.

I'm curious, as neither of these seems to describe what I assumed. Les, would you pay more (sorry) for an in between level where there are PDFs of the decals and templates, and detailed instructions? Neil, do you see a place for a #1½ like that? Call it a "digital design pack". #1 you already provide in your build threads, since they always include your OR files.

Ah, here's the rub. I already post my build threads, make my ORK files and decal art available to anyone who wants them, and consult as necessary. Folks are not exactly "breaking my door down" to get at this stuff, if you know what I mean. And the folks responding positively in this thread (thank you all by the way) are mostly those who have seen my build threads already. Would I sell a single plan pack to folks who don't "know me" on TRF? I dunno, maybe a few.

So the point of a plan pack (I think?) would be to add.... "something" to smooth the way for those who might think about building the design but don't want to approach it as a scratchbuild. A digital package would have:

1. Good instructions including detailed parts list
2. Templates for everything
3. Decal art

This is really close to what I already provide on the forum. Would a written set of instructions make a big difference?

A physical package would add:

1. Printed templates, including cardstock for shrouds and such
2. Laser printed decals

If I ever packed the Tectonic Shift (god help me I'm probably going to build that thing at some point) then I *would* include laser-cut centering rings, because those would really be the enabler for the build, and pretty easy for me to acquire. But that would be an exception.

 

[jqavins]

The way I see it, the build thread is a nice adjunct, but not a substitute for a concise-but-detailed, well formatted instruction sheet. PDFs of templates and decals are not usually in the build threads, though you do state that they're available on request. Having the instructions and the rest in one convenient package would be worth paying for, at least to me. If I'm the only one then so be it.

As for sales outside of your existing fans (and I am not using that word flippantly) I don't know. Making up a catalog and posting it in the vendors section (with an announcement in the Watering Hole) may well generate some, but I really can't say. (And making it might be fun. Or not.)

 

[neil_w]

The way I see it, the build thread is a nice adjunct, but not a substitute for a concise-but-detailed, well formatted instruction sheet. PDFs of templates and decals are not usually in the build threads, though you do state that they're available on request. Having the instructions and the rest in one convenient package would be worth paying for, at least to me. If I'm the only one then so be it.

That's good input.

As for sales outside of your existing fans (and I am not using that word flippantly) I don't know. Making up a catalog and posting it in the vendors section (with an announcement in the Watering Hole) may well generate some, but I really can't say. (And making it might be fun. Or not.)

Everything's fun until someone loses an eye!

 

[dr wogz]

One thing the Excelsior plan packs had, was the suggested kit from which to "bash" this new design from.. (Goonies were typically bashed from a Baby Bertha kit)

 

[neil_w]

One thing the Excelsior plan packs had, was the suggested kit from which to "bash" this new design from.. (Goonies were typically bashed from a Baby Bertha kit)

That's similar to an Accur8 "Short kit". That works well if/when the design is created with that in mind, not so easy after-the-fact. Shouldn't rule out the possibility though, when it fits.

 

[dr wogz]

Neil, I've bought a few kits for the express purpose of kit bashing.. the main thing in the kits is the NC!! Always the hardest part to come by for a scratch build.

 

[Nytrunner]

Making up a catalog and posting it in the vendors section (

Not sure he wants the 75$./mo vendor fee

 

[jqavins]

Not sure he wants the 75$./mo vendor fee

Ouch! I didn't know that detail. Obviously not worth it.

 

[neil_w]

Neil, I've bought a few kits for the express purpose of kit bashing.. the main thing in the kits is the NC!! Always the hardest part to come by for a scratch build.

Whenever possible I design around easily available nose cones, defined as either Estes plastic or Balsa Machining balsa. Occasionally eRockets or other.

 

[ThreeJsDad]

I have downloaded free plans from JimZ and YORP, as well as paid for plan packs from Shrox and TLP.
The Shrox plan pack for the Skonk Wulf included decals as well as the instructions and templates, which made it worthwhile for me. If it's a design I really like and have to have I would consider paying for it, say around $15 or less.

No to ride Gary's coat tails but I agree. If I got full sized fin patterns and decals that would be worth it. I only fly scratch built so my rockets always look so naked, decals would go a long way to making them look nicer.