Winter frustration and bad Estes motors

[cbwho]

I've noticed that plastic parachutes are useless in the winter. They don't unfold.

Streamers are not giving me such troubles.

What parachute material works well below freezing?

 

[Cape Byron]

Not that I've experienced below freezing for about 4 decades, but I think ripstop nylon is a good choice.

 

[BEC]

Plastic can work in the cold....but you need to open the 'chute, dust it with a bit of talcum (not cornstarch) powder, repack it then fly right away. No prepping at home the night before and just leaving it in the model. But I agree, ripstop nylon would not have this problem.

 

[cbwho]

BEC,

I think you underestimate how cold I am talking about.

Cold enough that my bare fingers fiddling with this stuff feel like someone hit them with hammers pain level. I'm not unpacking and repacking them in the frigid cold!

 

[Bill S]

I've had absolutely zero luck with plastic parachutes under 40 degrees. No matter if I use talcum powder not, they just don't open properly. I switched to thin-mil nylon parachutes and have had no issues since with cold.

 

[BEC]

BEC,

I think you underestimate how cold I am talking about.

Cold enough that my bare fingers fiddling with this stuff feel like someone hit them with hammers pain level. I'm not unpacking and repacking them in the frigid cold!

Ah....then by all means invest in some appropriate nylon 'chutes from Top Flite Recovery or your favorite supplier!

 

[shockie]

John got a title or url for that Journal of Pyrotechnics article?

 

[shockie]

well APCP may not thermal cycle like BP does, but APCP like BP with elevated temperatures will fire differently that say at ambient 75 F....but the temps would have to be extreme. Let me be clear....if you were to fire an APCP motor at 75F and then fire an APCP motor that's been heated to say 175 F then its burn characteristics will be different... ie the burn rate will increase

 

[RocketTree]

I launch in Canada all winter long (@ -10*C and up). No problem with over 130 Estes BP motors flown in the last 12 months. Zero CATO or igniter problems. A8, B6, C6, C11, D12, E12, E16 were all good. The motors are all relatively new.

Are your motors old?

 

[RocketTree]

Parachutes do suck in the cold. Doesnt matter if its ripstop nylon or plastic - they don't want to unfold! Plastic is slightly worse of the two, but a thicker nylon fabric seemed to be better.

Maybe try Aerotech RMS reload system or disposable DMS motors.

 

[cbwho]

If the snow is fluffy, it's a soft landing even with the folded parachute acting as a streamer.

A bigger issue is water proofing. The snow likes to melt and sometimes cause some paper distortion.

 

[aerostadt]

In some ways I can understand the temptation to launch in really cold weather. There are no people around and the coldness challenge to watch those vapor trails on a clear blue sky.

BEC,

I think you underestimate how cold I am talking about.

Cold enough that my bare fingers fiddling with this stuff feel like someone hit them with hammers pain level. I'm not unpacking and repacking them in the frigid cold!

 

[Pem Tech]

living in Canada I doubt the motors are kept heated during transport into Canada. I feel like rocketry in Canada in the winter may just be a waste of time. Man oh Man what else am I going to do with my winter. The rocket sled made it bearable. Guess I can try staging more rather then going bigger.

There are composite motors available for LPR rockets. Composite motors are more resistant to thermo-cycling.

 

[cbwho]

A big bonus of of the lake as a launch site is the large open space. No wind and sunny today, so easy to keep warm. It was late in the day, hence the shadows.

The video still looks like we are landing on Europa!

 

[RocketTree]

A big bonus of of the lake as a launch site is the large open space. No wind and sunny today, so easy to keep warm. It was late in the day, hence the shadows.

The video still looks like we are landing on Europa!

That looks great. Are you using a snowmobile for recovery?
Snow is 10" deep on the lake here in Ontario, so its a bit of a walk to recover.

 

[cbwho]

The snow is fluffy. I pull my son on a sled

 

[David Schwantz]

OMG. I live in MN also and winter has not even arrived yet

 

[cbwho]

My new Top Flite Recovery nylon parachute worked great in 15F today.

I ordered a range of sizes.

Is there a good chart of rocket weight to parachute size? I am eager to reinstall parachutes for the winter but I didn't label the original parachute sizes!

 

[cbwho]

Forgot to post a picture of the sunny day. Wish I could have gone to the lake earlier in the day. Glorious sunshine

So happy to find a cold weather parachute solution. Also the lithium AAs batteries worked but took a rather long button press. I don't think alkalines would have worked.

 

[scsager]

Just use Aerotech E20 or E30 motors - same size as Estes E12 - much better "E" power performance - you will be pleased.

 

[David Schwantz]

Top Flight has a chart on their website.

 

[Hobie1dog]

I wouldn't have this problem as I cannot be out of the cold weather so I won't be launching any rockets in the winter and I'll never buy an E motor with as many problems as I have read about with them.

 

[Marc_G]

You guys flying in the cold are hard core. I salute you.