Who makes thier own igniters?

[cwbullet]

I bought 100 blanks from skylighter and their ematch kit. I made 100 ematches. I did it just to mess around. I never used them for dual deployment.

Half I used for ground testing and half used a motor lighters. I had three fail. One was my fault. That 97-98% success.

I do not make ematches because it is not worth the trouble.

I also bought 50 ematch heads to make my own. I soldered them on 50 wires. I used the same dip. I got 44 usable ematches. All were used for ground testing or motor lighters. Three failed to light. Success rate of 82%.

Making your own blanks is definitely not worth the effort. Lot of work with a lot of failures.

 

[ksaves2]

I bought 100 blanks from skylighter and their ematch kit. I made 100 ematches. I did it just to mess around. I never used them for dual deployment.

Half I used for ground testing and half used a motor lighters. I had three fail. One was my fault. That 97-98% success.

I do not make ematches because it is not worth the trouble.

I also bought 50 ematch heads to make my own. I soldered them on 50 wires. I used the same dip. I got 44 usable ematches. All were used for ground testing or motor lighters. Three failed to light. Success rate of 82%.

Making your own blanks is definitely not worth the effort. Lot of work with a lot of failures.

Yup, If alternatives were absolutely, positively unable to be had by any means by regulatory over reach, roll your own would be the only
option. (Unless one did the LEUP hassle which is superfluous for just keeping a few ejection charge lighters) If that were the case, I'd do two matches per charge for a single altimetered flight as a bare minimum. Kurt

 

[taiwanluthiers]

those igniter chips just don't put out enough heat... in order to get that low current sensitivity you have to use chlorate/sulfide based mix which is sensitive (step on it and it goes off).

 

[cwbullet]

those igniter chips just don't put out enough heat... in order to get that low current sensitivity you have to use chlorate/sulfide based mix which is sensitive (step on it and it goes off).

That is what is in skylighter formula. Watch talking about chemicals. You do not want to post formulas on this part of the forum.

 

[ksaves2]

That's why we didn't say anything. I don't recommend it but it's not hard to look up. Kurt

 

[TopRamen]

How about soldering those tiny places. I'm a general novice at soldering, and after a few tries was able to get a decent bead on each wire end, but does anyone have any helpful advice for this step.
This is one after an initial dip in the Raw NC Lacquer to seal everything up, but you can see the little bit of solder I was able to get on the connections.

 

[Micromeister]

While I don't fly APCP motors, I do make and use my own APCP igniters in my large clustered MPR models. Generally with aluminum but have also tried other metals trying to get a slightly slower burn.
The AP-Al dry mixture is bound with 30minute,alcohol slowed epoxy on 30ga Nichrome single looped wire dipped & hung to dry for about a week. I've been making and using these Igniters for more the 12years without a single failure. I started making my own back when Estes started decreasing the pyrogen on their Solar Igniters. I fly my clustered models with confidence when using these Igniters and my 12V relay ignition system.

Recently for Micro motor clusters I needed a smaller diameter pyrogen head then I can get with my APCP formula. I made a very nice Nitorcellous Lacquer using Wal-Mart and K-mart purchased 40mm Ping pong balls desolved in Acetone starting in I think 2008. All the different "brands" I've purchased have apparently been the right stuff regardless of color as long as the package says "Offical Size and Weight". I found a bunch of Happy face yellow 40mm Ping pong balls that made a very nice yellow NC lacquer that I've been using to make Micro pyrogen tips cluster igniters using pyrodex as the pyrogen.

I've found the easiest and safest way to grind pyrodex is to desolve the pellet it in water, grind to the mesh I want in a wooden mortar & pestel than allow to dry. Once dry mix with Acetone or MEK to dipping consistancy. Works like a charm. Have used these tiny pyrogen tipped Q2's in up to 7 motor micro clusters.

 

[cavecentral]

Solder with dipping the wrapped wire(one end) in ruby red liquid flux. Then wrapp around insulated wire. Wrapp other end(tip). Dip in flux and solder. Running fluxed wire through bead on iron is all you need to do.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

I just tried soldering nichrome with standard rosin flux, won't cut it. While the solder sticks to the copper it absolutely will NOT stick to nichrome. So I ended up using Oatey No. 95 Lead Free Tinning Flux which you buy from Home Depot. It is zinc chloride based and that basically caused the nichrome to drink up solder like mad.

My wire wrapped igniter had poor reliability... it failed to even light at my last launch. Crimping may work...

 

[cavecentral]

I just tried soldering nichrome with standard rosin flux, won't cut it. While the solder sticks to the copper it absolutely will NOT stick to nichrome. So I ended up using Oatey No. 95 Lead Free Tinning Flux which you buy from Home Depot. It is zinc chloride based and that basically caused the nichrome to drink up solder like mad.

My wire wrapped igniter had poor reliability... it failed to even light at my last launch. Crimping may work...

Crimping works, but over time the connections can oxidize and do not age as well as soldered. I used to fold the end of the wire over and crimp with pliers.

Lifetime supply of the ruby red flux:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CNMHJW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Handeman]

I just tried soldering nichrome with standard rosin flux, won't cut it. While the solder sticks to the copper it absolutely will NOT stick to nichrome. So I ended up using Oatey No. 95 Lead Free Tinning Flux which you buy from Home Depot. It is zinc chloride based and that basically caused the nichrome to drink up solder like mad.

My wire wrapped igniter had poor reliability... it failed to even light at my last launch. Crimping may work...

Crimping works, but over time the connections can oxidize and do not age as well as soldered. I used to fold the end of the wire over and crimp with pliers.

Lifetime supply of the ruby red flux:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CNMHJW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've had the same issues. The homemade igniters work great for about a year. After that, you really need to check the resistance before use. You might want to put a piece of masking tape with the original resistance on each one so you know how much the connections degrade over time.

I haven't made any in years. I made 50 or so a few year ago and used them all up. I now have almost that many commercial First Fire igniters that came with the reloads. From here on out, I'll probably only make very small ones to use when clustering Hobbyline motors, or very large for research L - N motors.

Thanks for the tips about flux for soldering the nichrome. I'm sure that will extend the shelf life of my homemade igniters. I many need to whip up another batch.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

Just remember acid flux is designed for plumbing and not fine electrical connections (like surface mounted components) because the acid may attack the material. I think for nichromes it's not an issue.

 

[cavecentral]

Just remember acid flux is designed for plumbing and not fine electrical connections (like surface mounted components) because the acid may attack the material. I think for nichromes it's not an issue.

I can't solder much besides igniters. I literally dip a wrapped end 1/8" into a small bottle of the stuff. Then run it through a bead on the soldering iron. It sizzles, not much left to clean off. Completely seals the thing. Down side, it I think the acid eats the soldering iron tip over time.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

I had this problem... I used to use acid flux to solder really difficult thing such as back of a volume pot, guitar tremolo claws, etc. and over time the tip became badly pitted. Also if you repeatedly solder/desolder stuff with acid flux, it will eat the lugs as well.

 

[cwbullet]

I never solder. I use wire wrapping tool. It works 100% of the time that I don't bend the igniter.

 

[rcktnut]

I never solder. I use wire wrapping tool. It works 100% of the time that I don't bend the igniter.

+1 I don't see how you can go wrong with the tool. I just went out side and checked some I made over 5 years ago all worked great. No problems here with old age reliability. Made a bunch up and really don't need many, have very few misfires with supplied igniters. We'll see how many more years they last.

 

[cwbullet]

I will tell you that I did have an issue with one of my pyrogen mixtures this weekend. It was a little slow to light. 100% success with a slight delay. It burned a real long time. I will still use up the batch, but I will not use it for drag races.

 

[cavecentral]

Don't have many drag race worthy. I lose more igniters to rough handling than anything. One crack and they are down. I recently upped the Nichrome from 34 AWG to 32AWG hoping to not burn through as easily without lighting. I often use 2-3 igniters for a single motor at regional launches to ensure one lights (and lights the others). Saves a log wait for a recycle. Doesn't work so well on small motors though.

 

[Handeman]

Don't have many drag race worthy. I lose more igniters to rough handling than anything. One crack and they are down. I recently upped the Nichrome from 34 AWG to 32AWG hoping to not burn through as easily without lighting. I often use 2-3 igniters for a single motor at regional launches to ensure one lights (and lights the others). Saves a log wait for a recycle. Doesn't work so well on small motors though.

I'm not sure how you are making yours, but I cut one wire a half to 5/8" shorter then the other. strip about 1/8 to 3/16 off each wire then wrap the nichrome around both wires four or five time. Then make about six to 8 wraps up the longer wire insulation and 4 or 5 wraps on the copper end. I've never had a problem with the bridge wires. Even if the pyrogen cracks or breaks off, the bridge wire have always held up. I use 34 AWG nichrome.

 

[cavecentral]

I'm not sure how you are making yours, but I cut one wire a half to 5/8" shorter then the other. strip about 1/8 to 3/16 off each wire then wrap the nichrome around both wires four or five time. Then make about six to 8 wraps up the longer wire insulation and 4 or 5 wraps on the copper end. I've never had a problem with the bridge wires. Even if the pyrogen cracks or breaks off, the bridge wire have always held up. I use 34 AWG nichrome.

I do 3-4 wraps on the wire. 5-6 on the insulation. Otherwise the same. My theory is the pyrogen acts as a heat sink. The crack makes a tiny void of wire that will heat faster and burn through without igniting the pyrogen. Epoxy based in straws do not have this problem, dipped ones are the ones I find fragile in that sense. Maybe you are using a more sensitive dip.

 

[cwbullet]

I do 3-4 wraps on the wire. 5-6 on the insulation. Otherwise the same. My theory is the pyrogen acts as a heat sink. The crack makes a tiny void of wire that will heat faster and burn through without igniting the pyrogen. Epoxy based in straws do not have this problem, dipped ones are the ones I find fragile in that sense. Maybe you are using a more sensitive dip.

I do the same.

 

[Handeman]

I do 3-4 wraps on the wire. 5-6 on the insulation. Otherwise the same. My theory is the pyrogen acts as a heat sink. The crack makes a tiny void of wire that will heat faster and burn through without igniting the pyrogen. Epoxy based in straws do not have this problem, dipped ones are the ones I find fragile in that sense. Maybe you are using a more sensitive dip.

I'm not sure of that. The dip is a homemade concoction. It's basically a BP formula but uses Magnesium shavings instead of sulfur and held together with nitrocellulose lacquer. It burns very slow but throws off the Magnesium like a sparkler, which is burning at 5,000 deg. I've never had a motor not light. Even the pair of old G33 Hobbyline lit together when clustered.

 

[cavecentral]

Like i said, it might be the formula i used that isn't senitive enough.

 

[ksaves2]

Umm, There are online sources one wouldn't be required to "have" an LEUP to buy. That said, the amounts needed to make lighters is relatively small. As long as one is careful the risk is manageable. Don't purposely make stuff that goes bang and you won't bring attention
to yourself. One pearl, stay away from esoterically energetic recipes. Standard igniter formulas are relatively safe if mixing the reagent into
the "solvent" being used to make the dip. Dry mixing of powders should be discouraged. The pyro folks do it but it takes a lot of precautions. Kurt

 

[TopRamen]

I just wanted to make a Note to those interested in the NC Lacquer available from Firefox.
It is $16, but then they charge a fee for the Box and packing it up, a 3% Processing Fee, and finally, a UPS Shipping Fee.
I ended up with more in processing and handling than the product itself cost, and since they are sending it UPS, it is almost guaranteed to be destroyed in transit.

 

[cwbullet]

I just wanted to make a Note to those interested in the NC Lacquer available from Firefox.
It is $16, but then they charge a fee for the Box and packing it up, a 3% Processing Fee, and finally, a UPS Shipping Fee.
I ended up with more in processing and handling than the product itself cost, and since they are sending it UPS, it is almost guaranteed to be destroyed in transit.

I have ordered many times from them. The package always arrives. The key is ordering more than one bottle.

 

[rcktnut]

I just wanted to make a Note to those interested in the NC Lacquer available from Firefox.
It is $16, but then they charge a fee for the Box and packing it up, a 3% Processing Fee, and finally, a UPS Shipping Fee.
I ended up with more in processing and handling than the product itself cost, and since they are sending it UPS, it is almost guaranteed to be destroyed in transit.

Wow, you would have been better off just ordering a pyrogen dipping kit.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

You could just get some smokeless powder from a gun shop and mix that with acetone

 

[TopRamen]

Got my Firefox NC Lacquer today. The UPS guy handed it to me in perfect shape.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm only making Igniters to learn how and because it is fun. Thusly, this is way more than I will likely ever need.
I've done a few with the Ping Pong Ball Lacquer, BP and Mg and they have worked/tested fine, but the heads were too large for a 24mm Nozzle. They would likely work on a 29mm Motor like the G80, or in a 24mm reloadable if inserted into the grain before loading.

 

[cwbullet]

I found a new recipe that uses an odd ingredient. I will post more soon if it works. It uses plasti-dip.

I will not post the formula. It is trademarked.