Vehicle insurance rant

[prfesser]

Health insurance is ridiculous, auto insurance isn't far behind. Just got the bill with a 25% hike. Now it's $499.26 for six months' coverage. Deductibles, $250 comprehensive, $500 collision (ending those two immediately). And this is State Farm which appears to be the lowest-cost option for most people. I'm not in the military or I'd go with USAA.

No doubt most of you pay a lot more than that...but compare: This is for a twelve-year-old Honda Civic valued around $9,000. That's over 11% of the car's value, per year, for insurance.

[Strange that UNinsured Motor Vehicle Bodily injury was just $31, while UNDERinsured Motor Vehicle Bodily injury, same limits, is over four times that.]

Like most drivers I think I'm/we're somewhat safer than average, but you be the judge. One major accident (admittedly my fault, totaled a $7500 pickup about eight years ago, no other vehicles and no one was hurt). Four or five fender benders that didn't involve State Farm at all. That's a half-century and a half-million miles of driving. Wife: one major accident in 40 years, not her fault. I talk on the phone while driving maybe once every other month; it makes me very uncomfortable to do so. Have never seen Geniece do so at all. We both pull over if we need to read or send a text.

An ABC report posited two important reasons why auto insurance has spiked over the last 3-4 years. Vehicles are getting safer and smarter, so naturally drivers are paying less attention to what they're SUPPOSED to be doing. And distracted driving, especially with phones but also with the new-and-improved (sarcasm intended) touch displays on most new vehicles. U.S. drivers were said to spend approximately four times as much time texting/reading texts (while driving) vs Europeans. A study showed that talking on the phone, hands-free or not, increases 4X the probability of accident.

Waiting to see what happens with my homeowner's insurance...

 

[Bravo52]

I think most of the cost of increase is for the cost of repair. I have USAA and I had an increase as well but when I compared the actual increases, it was because I have "comprehensive" on 10 yr old vehicle and that would be the cost to repair it if in an accident. All of the liability was relatively the same.

 

[rfjustin]

Health insurance is ridiculous, auto insurance isn't far behind. Just got the bill with a 25% hike. Now it's $499.26 for six months' coverage. Deductibles, $250 comprehensive, $500 collision (ending those two immediately). And this is State Farm which appears to be the lowest-cost option for most people. I'm not in the military or I'd go with USAA.

No doubt most of you pay a lot more than that...but compare: This is for a twelve-year-old Honda Civic valued around $9,000. That's over 11% of the car's value, per year, for insurance.

[Strange that UNinsured Motor Vehicle Bodily injury was just $31, while UNDERinsured Motor Vehicle Bodily injury, same limits, is over four times that.]

Like most drivers I think I'm/we're somewhat safer than average, but you be the judge. One major accident (admittedly my fault, totaled a $7500 pickup about eight years ago, no other vehicles and no one was hurt). Four or five fender benders that didn't involve State Farm at all. That's a half-century and a half-million miles of driving. Wife: one major accident in 40 years, not her fault. I talk on the phone while driving maybe once every other month; it makes me very uncomfortable to do so. Have never seen Geniece do so at all. We both pull over if we need to read or send a text.

An ABC report posited two important reasons why auto insurance has spiked over the last 3-4 years. Vehicles are getting safer and smarter, so naturally drivers are paying less attention to what they're SUPPOSED to be doing. And distracted driving, especially with phones but also with the new-and-improved (sarcasm intended) touch displays on most new vehicles. U.S. drivers were said to spend approximately four times as much time texting/reading texts (while driving) vs Europeans. A study showed that talking on the phone, hands-free or not, increases 4X the probability of accident.

Waiting to see what happens with my homeowner's insurance...

We are all sharing in the excessive claims activity in homeowners and on the auto side. Even if you didn't have any claims history to speak of, we all getting the rate increases.
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/202...s-in-100-years-blames-inflation-weak-markets/
https://www.reinsurancene.ws/state-...e insurer reported a,now stands at 94 million.
https://www.shelterinsurance.com/me...assets/images/about/2023_AnnualReport_OPT.pdf

 

[SolarYellow]

Also, places like the Republik of Kalifornia where the state has limited insurance premium increases, while the cost of things the insurance must pay for when there is a claim goes up and up and up. Insurance companies are simply pulling out of the state, not writing new policies and looking for any excuse to cancel old ones. I guess they're also increasing what everyone else pays to cover their losses where they're still stuck doing business in Utopia.

 

[Antares JS]

We've seen similar hikes, plus my mom just had one of her dogs injured in an accident (run off the road by a truck driver, not her fault) and the insurance is refusing to pay for the pet's vet bills, waffling on whether pets are covered under personal property damage or not, despite the fact that it should be blatantly obvious that pets are personal property, and legal precedent apparently agrees.

It got bad enough that they are now suing the insurance company for breach of contract, as well as the truck driver for damages.

They try to make it sound like they are there to help in their insipid commercials, but when the fecal turbine interaction happens, insurance companies will look for any excuse they can to get out of paying you. It's a racket.

 

[mh9162013]

They try to make it sound like they are there to help in their insipid commercials, but when the fecal turbine interaction happens, insurance companies will look for any excuse they can to get out of paying you. It's a racket.

The more an insurance company advertises, the harder it usually is to get them to pay out legitimate claims.

There's a reason you see a lot of Snake Farm and Allsnake commercials on TV...

 

[Antares JS]

There's a reason you see a lot of Snake Farm and Allsnake commercials on TV...

Let's not forget Geico...

 

[mh9162013]

Health insurance is ridiculous, auto insurance isn't far behind. Just got the bill with a 25% hike. Now it's $499.26 for six months' coverage. Deductibles, $250 comprehensive, $500 collision (ending those two immediately). And this is State Farm which appears to be the lowest-cost option for most people. I'm not in the military or I'd go with USAA.

No doubt most of you pay a lot more than that...but compare: This is for a twelve-year-old Honda Civic valued around $9,000. That's over 11% of the car's value, per year, for insurance.

[Strange that UNinsured Motor Vehicle Bodily injury was just $31, while UNDERinsured Motor Vehicle Bodily injury, same limits, is over four times that.]

Like most drivers I think I'm/we're somewhat safer than average, but you be the judge. One major accident (admittedly my fault, totaled a $7500 pickup about eight years ago, no other vehicles and no one was hurt). Four or five fender benders that didn't involve State Farm at all. That's a half-century and a half-million miles of driving. Wife: one major accident in 40 years, not her fault. I talk on the phone while driving maybe once every other month; it makes me very uncomfortable to do so. Have never seen Geniece do so at all. We both pull over if we need to read or send a text.

An ABC report posited two important reasons why auto insurance has spiked over the last 3-4 years. Vehicles are getting safer and smarter, so naturally drivers are paying less attention to what they're SUPPOSED to be doing. And distracted driving, especially with phones but also with the new-and-improved (sarcasm intended) touch displays on most new vehicles. U.S. drivers were said to spend approximately four times as much time texting/reading texts (while driving) vs Europeans. A study showed that talking on the phone, hands-free or not, increases 4X the probability of accident.

Waiting to see what happens with my homeowner's insurance...

I'd shop around for lower rates. You can do it yourself or have an agent help you (I can PM you the name of my agent if you're interested).

 

[Art Upton]

Waiting to see what happens with my homeowner's insurance...

My State Farm Home Owners I just paid went up more than $200; 500 something to 700 something.

I asked why, they said inflation and the cost of repairing or replacing your home. I don't recall it going up over the last 10 years at all, maybe a few 10s or 20s but not something I noticed.

 

[Buckeye]

My auto rates went up 20% two years in a row, now. My agent said it is due to inflation, repair costs, and severe summer storms with hail damage.

Indeed it is a racket. You must have auto insurance by law, but when you use it, you get penalized with higher premiums.

Remember when beer commercials dominated sporting events? Now it is insurance commercials.

 

[rcktnut]

Talk to an insurance agent, most likely he will find you the same coverage for less. Other than with Progressive I've had other insurance companies gradually increase their rates year after year with no claims at all. Thinking it was normal just stuck with them for years. I found out that the rates were being increased way above what was the average or normal. Stick with a company too long and they stick it to you. Been with Progressive for 7 years now, rates have been stable all the time.

 

[tsmmiller]

We've seen similar hikes, plus my mom just had one of her dogs injured in an accident (run off the road by a truck driver, not her fault) and the insurance is refusing to pay for the pet's vet bills, waffling on whether pets are covered under personal property damage or not, despite the fact that it should be blatantly obvious that pets are personal property, and legal precedent apparently agrees.

It got bad enough that they are now suing the insurance company for breach of contract, as well as the truck driver for damages.

They try to make it sound like they are there to help in their insipid commercials, but when the fecal turbine interaction happens, insurance companies will look for any excuse they can to get out of paying you. It's a racket.

I've lived this. I had Farmers. The one and only accident I have been in in 51 years of driving was when a gal pulled out in front of me from a parking lot into moving traffic. I moved over to prevent from TBoning her and rear ended the cars stopped in the left turn lane. All the witnesses were very adamant about how she was the one to blame. However since it was me rear ending the other car, I was to blame. Insurance company balked at paying then dumped because I "filed a claim." Yes that was the exact reason I was given...You filed a claim.
Yes it is a racket. You are betting that you don't get in an accident and are paying in case you do. The insurances are betting you will, but are unwilling to pay out if and when.
Racket? ..more extortion...

 

[Hobie1dog]

all insurance is just legalized gambling.
Years ago my wife I've got a letter in the mail from Allstate saying that they were going to have to increase her rates and it was because she had never had an accident, and she was due for an accident. Needless to say she switched insurance companies real quick.

 

[Antares JS]

Years ago my wife I've got a letter in the mail from Allstate saying that they were going to have to increase her rates and it was because she had never had an accident, and she was due for an accident.

I don't know if that's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard, but it's almost certainly in the top 10.

 

[Syclone]

Watched an interesting video linked here which went into detail regarding the insurance price hike.

 

[NTP2]

I don't know if that's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard, but it's almost certainly in the top 10.

I’m not sure if they are that bad at math or if they think she is?

 

[Antares JS]

I’m not sure if they are that bad at math or if they think she is?

Come to think of it, here's a word of advice for you, since you're still in school: Take a statistics class.

If nothing else, you will come to understand exactly how they are often manipulated and used to make fallacious claims, and you're less likely to fall for those claims.

 

[NateB]

Part of my job (I truly have no idea how this became our responsibility...) entails writing appeal letters to health insurers who deny claims for coverage for our services. I'm convinced insurers of all types automatically deny some percentage of all claims without even looking at them in hopes nobody appeals. Many claims are denied because our ambulance service wasn't preauthorized, as if someone preplanned a heart attack or serious car accident. Another was denied because the patient was stable at the time of transport (the physical time of being loaded into the vehicle) and ignoring the hour and significant effort our crew spent making them stable enough to survive the trip.

The industry is definitely a racket.

 

[mh9162013]

Allstate saying that they were going to have to increase her rates and it was because she had never had an accident, and she was due for an accident.

That's crazy. Do you still have a copy of that letter?

 

[mh9162013]

I'm convinced insurers of all types automatically deny some percentage of all claims without even looking at them in hopes nobody appeals.

I'm a believer in that, too. But to be "fair," many companies take this approach, ie "let's screw over the customer because it's cheaper and anyone who files a dispute and wins will be in the minority and we'll still come out ahead."

Also, for every day an insurance company can delay paying out a claim, that's an extra day they can earn interest or an investment return on it.

 

[mh9162013]

Come to think of it, here's a word of advice for you, since you're still in school: Take a statistics class.

If nothing else, you will come to understand exactly how they are often manipulated and used to make fallacious claims, and you're less likely to fall for those claims.

Concur 100%. I took an introductory stats course in college and it was one of my favorite classes in terms of utility for everyday life and my professional life (I'm constantly coming across data and having a basic understanding of what a histogram is and how standard deviations work is quite helpful).

 

[boatgeek]

Concur 100%. I took an introductory stats course in college and it was one of my favorite classes in terms of utility for everyday life and my professional life (I'm constantly coming across data and having a basic understanding of what a histogram is and how standard deviations work is quite helpful).

If you can find it, reading “How to Lie With Statistics” will also be extremely helpful in seeing where news media is deceiving you.

 

[Hobie1dog]

That's crazy. Do you still have a copy of that letter?

nope, that was 50 years ago.

 

[NTP2]

Come to think of it, here's a word of advice for you, since you're still in school: Take a statistics class.

If nothing else, you will come to understand exactly how they are often manipulated and used to make fallacious claims, and you're less likely to fall for those claims.

My school lacks a statistics class (if they had it I would have already planned on taking it) but I did read a math book that has 2-3 chapters on it (it’s called humble pi, great book looking at math in the real world).

Ps statistics and geometry are the only parts of math I actually like, because they are the only ones that aren’t just memorizing.

 

[mh9162013]

My school lacks a statistics class (if they had it I would have already planned on taking it) but I did read a math book that has 2-3 chapters on it (it’s called humble pi, great book looking at math in the real world).

Ps statistics and geometry are the only parts of math I actually like, because they are the only ones that aren’t just memorizing.

The great thing about stats (at least my college intro course) is that if you can do geometry, algebra II and stuff like that, you can easily teach yourself statistics.

If you're just learning algebra, you can still get many of the stats concepts on your own, too.

 

[rfjustin]

That's crazy. Do you still have a copy of that letter?

You are too kind. That's the classiest way of saying I think you are full of shti.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

For a long time I was with Liberty, and had to fight every year with ridiculous rate increases. My homeowner's and car insurance this year was going to be $3300, and I don't live in the Taj Mahal and drive a Masserati. I tried on-line quotes and got nowhere; Allstate, nowhere, Sate Farm, nowhere.

So out of curiosity, I checked with a local, breathing insurance agent. We sat down and went through Liberty's quote, where I'd increased my homeowner's deductible to $2000 and my car to $1000, and had $50/$100 liability limits on the car (not near enough these days). I walked out of there with three policies from Erie Insurance - car with $250/$500 Liability limits, deductible back down to $500; homeowners with the exact terms as Liberty but increased payout and deductible back down to $1000, and a $1,000,000 umbrella policy over those two for $2100 total for 1 year. I was walking on air.

But the observation is correct. When you are paying, you are a customer. When they are paying you, you are a liability. Still, I don't know if Erie sells outside of PA but needless to say, I recommend them highly.

 

[rfjustin]

For a long time I was with Liberty, and had to fight every year with ridiculous rate increases. My homeowner's and car insurance this year was going to be $3300, and I don't live in the Taj Mahal and drive a Masserati. I tried on-line quotes and got nowhere; Allstate, nowhere, Sate Farm, nowhere.

So out of curiosity, I checked with a local, breathing insurance agent. We sat down and went through Liberty's quote, where I'd increased my homeowner's deductible to $2000 and my car to $1000, and had $50/$100 liability limits on the car (not near enough these days). I walked out of there with three policies from Erie Insurance - car with $250/$500 Liability limits, deductible back down to $500; homeowners with the exact terms as Liberty but increased payout and deductible back down to $1000, and a $1,000,000 umbrella policy over those two for $2100 total for 1 year. I was walking on air.

But the observation is correct. When you are paying, you are a customer. When they are paying you, you are a liability. Still, I don't know if Erie sells outside of PA but needless to say, I recommend them highly.

Erie offers coverage in 12 states: Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

My school lacks a statistics class (if they had it I would have already planned on taking it) but I did read a math book that has 2-3 chapters on it (it’s called humble pi, great book looking at math in the real world).

Ps statistics and geometry are the only parts of math I actually like, because they are the only ones that aren’t just memorizing.

Well, you need to get into analytic geometry and Trig. Then you can tell the girls, "Baby, if you got da curves, I got the angles!"

(That's so old it's slightly before my time, old Wolf Man Jack trash talk from the 50's. I couldn't resist).

All seriousness aside, trig and calc involve a lot more observing the problem and reasoning than just memorizing. And it's cool all the stuff you learn!

 

[tsmmiller]

I'm a believer in that, too. But to be "fair," many companies take this approach, ie "let's screw over the customer because it's cheaper and anyone who files a dispute and wins will be in the minority and we'll still come out ahead."

Also, for every day an insurance company can delay paying out a claim, that's an extra day they can earn interest or an investment return on it.

I think this is very true. My medical insurance due to lack of vision Drs farms out a lot of the appointments. I as a well as one co worker visited the clinic they had farmed out to.
We have copay and then a percentage of the "Dr payment" the rest is covered under the insurance. I as well as the coworker received extra billing beyond what is/was covered.
It took several weeks of back and forth with our primary plan admins as well as the clinic and conference calls of all of us together to get it sorted out. It amounted to the clinic was gouging the patients from our caregiver.
I voiced my concern that this very thing happened to two different people, and found out about it only by chance. How many more were getting socked by this place, that didn't file a grievance and just paid it.