TVC Prime Time

[MNTrailBoss]

IS there anyone out there now that has a functional system beyond the "I got it to work" stage that could be used by others? A "kit" of some kind? Perhaps with the following assumptions:
1) Electronic components (flight computer/flight computer components and assembly, software) ready to buy or build.
2) STL files for the various bits that could be scaled up/down as necessary.
3) A guide/instructions with the major adjustment elements to look at when setting up and diagnosing issues with flight -- PID, weights, servo throw, durations, etc. Things students could understand and adjust
4) Explanation of telemetry data and what elements might mean so they can adjust the flight characteristics?

I've taken our Jr. High students through basic low and mid-power rocketry and I have shown them some bits on high power dual deployment electronics. But the students are getting really jazzed by the no-fin designs, no doubt to the proliferation of SpaceX and other corporate rocket company success stories. It's really out of our league right now.

If this isn't hear yet, is anyone close to this level of advancement in TVC?

Thanks,

Bob
Morris Area Schools
Morris, MN

 

[cerving]

Joe Barnard (bps.space) WAS selling his flight computer and the files for printing his TVC mechanics, however he is no longer selling the flight computer. He has it down pretty good (as you can tell from his videos), but from a commercial point of view it's really not viable yet.

 

[Handeman]

My suggestion is to seriously consider diving into TVC or any other kind of hardware/firmware development for rocketry. When you go down that path, you are really getting away from flying rockets and going down the hardware/firmware development engineering path. I'm assuming you don't want to go too far down that path, which is why you were asking for already developed systems. Very few of the hobbyist on here are going to be deep into that.

There is nothing wrong with taking that path, it will lead to many fun and interesting projects and may push you into all sorts of robotics, etc.

If you do want to stay with rocketry, maybe dig deeper into rocket flight profiles and how designs affect this, like nosecone shapes vs. speed. Fin shape vs. fin flutter, atmospheric conditions and how it affects flight profiles. Even just consolidating all the test data out there and verifying it with test flights would be great data to publish. Tube fins need to be much better defined to be modeled better. There are tons of areas in hobby rocketry where things are done one way because that is "best practice", or "rule of thumb", but is it really best? I know there are some things I do that goes directly against what many consider best practice because I found my methods seem to work better. But I don't have any data to back up my conclusions.

You could spend years diving into these things and testing and quantifying data on them. Check the Open Rocket threads about what people think should be calculated in the program that is not because there really isn't a good model to use for some of the assumptions and calculations being done. There is lots of data to be collected when launching and recovering rockets that can advance and contribute to the body of knowledge that directly relates to building, designing, and flying rockets. I would love to see definitive data on drogue chute sizing, shock cord configuration, and how it relates to the apogee to main opening part of the DD rocket flight.

I guess what I'm saying, there are lots of areas of research you could go into that would still be much more rocketry related than getting into the hardware/firmware development for mechanical systems, even if they are for a rocket sub-system.

What ever you do, good luck and have fun!

 

[cls]

Jr High School students are not ready to understand the mathematics in the control software. Do something else. There's plenty of great projects in LPR and MPR.

 

[Titan II]

OP...I wish you success. The naysayer(s) above just have no ambition and underestimate the abilities of some Jr. High students. There are no ready to fly systems available that I know of. However, there is a lot of work going on in the area. Below I have attached some info to look at.



https://www.youtube.com/c/DeltaSpaceSystems

https://bps.space/

 

[Art Upton]

Perhaps BPS systems no longer sells the the computer due to folks getting in over their heads and the liability issue it could cause of selling a complete system.

 

[MNTrailBoss]

Thanks for all the feedback. Right now I'm thinking of starting simple and seeing where it takes us -- perhaps printing an engine assembly and hooking up a rudimentary flight computer that simply alters the axis based on the gyro readings. Some demonstration stuff. See if anyone has interest in going deeper into the chasm. I have a few students that I teach programming to and I would agree that the math is above them right now, but perhaps some simple stuff like apogee controlled ejection, understanding when the vehicle launched/landed... would be something they could tackle.

 

[MNTrailBoss]

That young lady really did a superb job!

 

[Rschub]

Just spit balling here, but you could use Joe's TVC files and a controller such as this:

https://www.motionrc.com/products/eagle-a3-super-4-airplane-gyro-standard-edition-hea3s4

that is set to hover mode and a long burn motor with electronic ejection. That would get you 90% of the way there and uses readily available components.

 

[NTP2]

Just spit balling here, but you could use Joe's TVC files and a controller such as this:

https://www.motionrc.com/products/eagle-a3-super-4-airplane-gyro-standard-edition-hea3s4

that is set to hover mode and a long burn motor with electronic ejection. That would get you 90% of the way there and uses readily available components.

wow that’s really good idea with the gyro! I might need to try that someday!

 

[Rschub]

wow that’s really good idea

 

[MNTrailBoss]

What I noticed was excessive gimbal throws while that rocket was going up. Would be able to mechanically adjust servo travel, but not through the SW using this device, is my guess. But then, you start down the rabbit hole again I suppose.

 

[Ulexis]

Hey Bob!

 

[Rschub]

What I noticed was excessive gimbal throws while that rocket was going up. Would be able to mechanically adjust servo travel, but not through the SW using this device, is my guess. But then, you start down the rabbit hole again I suppose.

The eagle has adjustable sensitivity, albeit fixed once programed. My suggestion is for a long burn motor sized to keep the delta V as low as possible during the powered part of the flight.
https://csrocketry.com/rocket-motor...otech-h13st-p-super-thunder-rocket-motor.html