Thoughts on the middle east conflicts.

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That attack didn't put the fear of God into anybody. Iran threw lots and lots of armament toward Israel; some of it was shot down by the Jordanians and nearly all the rest by the iron dome. The only casualty was a little girl. In Jordan. Fear of God? It may have put the fear of further embarrassment into Iran, and it put tragic grief into one Jordanian family, and that's all it accomplished.


Now there, I quite agree. But not that the Iranian attack did anything to change that.
I think Israel was extremely surprised and wasn't expecting such an attack on their nation from the nation of Iran, simply for their attack on the Syrian embassy annex. Israel could have responded much more harshly, but did not, apparently hoping to put their error and the matter to rest. IMHO, it will for the moment, but not for long.

Israel did not relish receiving this attack. Their job of work in Gaza remains distinctly unfinished, their fronts of war are expanding, and a significant basis of their support in the US is protesting loudly, just to mention a few issues. I want Israel to survive. Half of my best friends in my youth were from Jewish families, and my significant other over the last 40 years is Jewish, albeit nonobservant.
 
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Jack Keane comments on how stunned and alarmed the US and Israel were about the scale of the Iranian missile barrage. He also remarks on how Israeli intelligence was aware of the October 7th attacks over a year before the event took place. But preparations were not made as it was assumed Hamas lacked the requisite organizational skills and credibility to carry out such a plan.

 
The Navy deployed SM-3 successfully in what is technically combat.
That is world changing and the capability will only increase over time.
Theater Ballistic Missile Defense is a reality.
For decades, ballistic missiles have been a nasty weapon that was safe to use and effective because of the stand-off.
Now they are not.

Anti-ship Ballistic missiles (a bit dicey) haven't worked in the Red Sea either and I'm certain SM-3 / SM-6 is good for those.

I know a superpower whose military planners have knots in their knickers.
Not in the Middle East though so you can guess 🤪
 
Jack Keane comments on how stunned and alarmed the US and Israel were about the scale of the Iranian missile barrage. He also remarks on how Israeli intelligence was aware of the October 7th attacks over a year before the event took place. But preparations were not made as it was assumed Hamas lacked the requisite organizational skills and credibility to carry out such a plan.


Be careful of generalities. " Knew about Oct 7th" is a generality. They may have known Hamas had plans but without specifics and a date, they may not have had enough info to stop it. There is a difference between intel and actionable intel. I refuse to believe they knew the when and how to the degree the conspiracists think. If it were true, more heads would roll.
 
The Navy deployed SM-3 successfully in what is technically combat.
That is world changing and the capability will only increase over time.
Theater Ballistic Missile Defense is a reality.
For decades, ballistic missiles have been a nasty weapon that was safe to use and effective because of the stand-off.
Now they are not.

Anti-ship Ballistic missiles (a bit dicey) haven't worked in the Red Sea either and I'm certain SM-3 / SM-6 is good for those.

I know a superpower whose military planners have knots in their knickers.
Not in the Middle East though so you can guess 🤪
Very interesting! I suppose these might indeed be of strategic value in the South China Sea.

Source: Bloomberg

Blurb:
Apr 24, 2024
The Phillipines and the US are in the midst of joint military exercises near the South China Sea and Taiwan, sparking anger from Beijing. This year’s war games are taking place at a time of increasingly strained relations between China and the Philippines. Maritime encounters between the countries have become more frequent, with China’s recurring use of water cannons damaging Philippine boats. Why are tensions escalating almost two years into Ferdinand Marcos Jr.’s presidency? And what are the implications for the US and the rest of the world?
 
I don't want to derail the middle east debate but. The World Court ruled against Chinas claims about the 9 dash line years ago but China doesn't recognize it. The disputed areas around the Philippines is inside their EEZ. The Chinese continue to fish there illegally. Their militia navy blockades reefs and fishing grounds so they can claim they belong to them. The President before Marcos jr was a Chinese apologist and let China have it's way. Today I saw that the Philippines is considering acquiring Gripens. They also need bigger warships. The Littoral Combat ships we are getting rid of should go straight to the Philippines.
 
I don't want to derail the middle east debate but. The World Court ruled against Chinas claims about the 9 dash line years ago but China doesn't recognize it. The disputed areas around the Philippines is inside their EEZ. The Chinese continue to fish there illegally. Their militia navy blockades reefs and fishing grounds so they can claim they belong to them. The President before Marcos jr was a Chinese apologist and let China have it's way. Today I saw that the Philippines is considering acquiring Gripens. They also need bigger warships. The Littoral Combat ships we are getting rid of should go straight to the Philippines.
A second hand vehicle can often prove more reliable than a brand new one.... and cheaper to maintain..... :)
 
The Littoral Combat ships we are getting rid of should go straight to the Philippines.
Those 'ships' are garbage death trap gunnery targets, and(short of being hauled out of the water and delivered dry) would never survive the transit.

They would be better served getting new radios and hurling harsh language than to have those unmitigated pieces of garbage.....unless perhaps your goal is to hand China an easy 'win' and the Phils lots of dead sailors.

Seriously, there's about a thousand reasons why we're getting rid of them, and none of them would indicate that the ships are suitable for anything other than making soda cans from. Never should have been built in the first place, and the move to re-designate the Freedom class hulls as 'Frigates' is so tragically stupid as to be laughable, and will only get us lots of dead US Sailors.

Plenty of open source information, but suffice it to say that I've done EXTENSIVE work on both hull classes as well as the ASW and MCM mission modules, and agree with all 1K+ good reasons to scrap them. I would never let anyone I care about onboard for more than a pierside tour.
 
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Those 'ships' are garbage death trap gunnery targets, and(short of being hauled out of the water and delivered dry) would never survive the transit.

They would be better served getting new radios and hurling harsh language than to have those unmitigated pieces of garbage.....unless perhaps your goal is to hand China an easy 'win' and the Phils lots of dead sailors.

Seriously, there's about a thousand reasons why we're getting rid of them, and none of them would indicate that the ships are suitable for anything other than making soda cans from. Never should have been built in the first place, and the move to re-designate the Freedom class hulls as 'Frigates' is so tragically stupid as to be laughable, and will only get us lots of dead US Sailors.

Plenty of open source information, but suffice it to say that I've done EXTENSIVE work on the ships themselves as well as the ASW and MCM mission modules, and agree with all 1K+ good reasons to scrap them.
I heard the newfangled engines were problematic, and I know they are definitely not suited for ocean voyages. As someone who didn't follow the program that closely, what other issues were there?
 
I heard the newfangled engines were problematic, and I know they are definitely not suited for ocean voyages. As someone who didn't follow the program that closely, what other issues were there?
Aside from constant propulsion plant issues (engines and gearboxes) that get all the news articles, there's the issues of the cracking hulls. Each ship, including the new ones, have literally THOUSANDS of real time monitored UNREPAIRABLE micro cracks that SIGNIFICANTLY sea state and maneuver restrict the individual hulls in a constantly degrading death spiral......to the point that some of them are so limited that they're "not even suitable for river boat day cruises" (direct quote from a report I read authored by one of the USN's leading design engineers that was ancillary documentation to our contract bid). Many of the hulls untie from the pier and head out of port for just long enough to burn enough fuel to take on fresh fuel to avoid having to de-fuel stuff that's sat in the tanks long enough that the .mil procedure would be to get rid of it by pumping it to a fuel recycler and to keep things 'working' long enough to prevent having to put equipment in preserved lay-up status.

I managed the technical crew that removed the Gen 1 monitor system and installed the modern Gen 2 systems in all the hulls.....including the new ones as delivered! We also did the expansion systems with new sensors after each annual inspection.

It's 'real time' monitored ashore by a full time encrypted datalink that the ship can NO LONGER interrupt or interfere with anymore(for 'reasons') short of going cold iron, and even then we installed an integrated UPS with about 24 hours of battery life. It monitors ships performance, sea state, and every one of those cracks as they continue to propagate.....and what the CO does/does not do according the engineering limits, to endanger his ship.

I also managed the production crew that built, integrated, and tested for delivery ALL the wiring harnesses for all but the first 3 sets of ASW and MCM modules. There are ........issues. Not only with specs, but performance and shipboard integration that significantly hamper actual effective operation. I've had more than one OPS O posit that that they could probably better perform ASW missions by tying sailors to ropes, throwing them overboard, and hauling them up every 5 minutes to report what they saw down there. Well documented issues in several different Naval and defense industry periodicals.

We built the prototype of the auxiliary gun module as well (again, my crew built all the wiring harnesses and did the integration). All but impossible to build as spec'd. Performance testing in land based superstructure modules showed that the structural stresses of firing the gun module would, in short order, probably destroy itself and the ship it was mounted on. No further gun modules were produced.

And Fincantieri is NOT what one would call an 'above board' contractor with quality lower than a skid row shoebox. The got the FFG(X) program, God help us all!

Austal (who makes the ill fated Independence class) is orders of magnitude better quality (albeit they were handed a flawed design, and to their credit pushed back on it from 0800 day 1) and more ethical in their business practices.

Like I said, all open source. I can elaborate more DM so as not to clutter up this thread.

Bottom line, the LCS (Freedom and Independence) class of US Litoral combat ships are garbage death traps for the Sailors onboard, and are rife with problems nothing short of scrapping the program is going to fix.
 
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So how the heck did they get built? Who's boondoggle was it. How much money was wasted. That is appalling. I hope heads rolled or jobs were lost.
We're building it out of aluminium....,... And we're stickin a big diesel engin in it with a turbo for lots o power.
Just a guess..... You don't get fatigue cracks without vibration. And aluminium is prone to them if vibrated And big diesel engines vibrate..... Or marines running in formation......
 
We're building it out of aluminium....,... And we're stickin a big diesel engin in it with a turbo for lots o power.
Just a guess..... You don't get fatigue cracks without vibration. And aluminium is prone to them if vibrated And big diesel engines vibrate..... Or marines running in formation......
That and plowing through the ocean is like sliding on glass......
 
We're building it out of aluminium....,... And we're stickin a big diesel engin in it with a turbo for lots o power.
Just a guess..... You don't get fatigue cracks without vibration. And aluminium is prone to them if vibrated And big diesel engines vibrate..... Or marines running in formation......

Decent-sized boats have been built out of aluminum with big diesel engines for many decades.
 
just putting this out for the marine architects. The upper hull was AL, and the lower part traditional steel. Also, most of the upper hull was bonded with a super-duper adhesive foam tape..

@boatgeek may be very familiar...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_ferry_scandal
There is a company in Spokane, WA that has proprietary method of joining aluminum and steel WITHOUT explosives (the usual method to weld these two very disimilar materials together), by using the two integrated materials supposedly the dielectric corrosions issues are avoided. I do know that one of the individuals that worked there told me the parts were used to join the steel part of the hull to aluminum parts. It was really cool to see them pull the parts out and periodically section one of them and see steel on one side, aluminum on the other and no definitive line where the two merged,
 
just putting this out for the marine architects. The upper hull was AL, and the lower part traditional steel. Also, most of the upper hull was bonded with a super-duper adhesive foam tape..

@boatgeek may be very familiar...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_ferry_scandal
I remember that scandal. Some of it was akin to the new Hummer pan here who complained that the cars had lost gas mileage and were hard to park. It is the nature of the beast of fast ferries to burn a lot of fuel. If they didn’t expect that, they were misinformed about what to expect.

By the way, the standard way to weld aluminum to steel in the marine world is to use a detacouple between. That’s made by layering steel, a couple of grades of aluminum, then a layer of high explosives. Set off the explosives and the metal gets bonded into an almost watertight object that won’t cause dissimilar metal corrosion. Weld the steel side to steel and aluminum to aluminum and you’re set.
 
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