The Whys of Fillet Radius

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lcorinth

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I read somewhere recently that the ideal fin fillet radius is about 4%-ish of the fin root cord length, and since learning that, I've been applying it to my builds.

But today I was thinking about this, and wondering why that is. Is this just a modeling convention, or is there an aerodynamic or engineering reason? More specifically, why isn't it related more to fin span or airframe diameter?

Does anybody know why this is? Does anybody take a different approach - say, to span or diameter?
 
Sharp corners typically can create more drag, a small fillet helps keep the airflow smooth, but if you make the radius too large you can increase the frontal area and start to increase drag more than you reduced it. when I was a kid the ideal fillet radius was my index finger tip, now I use my pinky finger tip, if you have fat fingers you can always use a soaked Qtip.
 
Sharp corners typically can create more drag, a small fillet helps keep the airflow smooth, but if you make the radius too large you can increase the frontal area and start to increase drag more than you reduced it. when I was a kid the ideal fillet radius was my index finger tip, now I use my pinky finger tip, if you have fat fingers you can always use a soaked Qtip.

What he said+1. Unless your a performance Guru , the size doesn't really matter ( within reason). A couple extra ounces , the wrong cone shape, too long or short BT, fin design-taper,sweep, number of fins, leading and trailing edge finish---will all degrade performance more than the fillet. No reason to pick nits in my book. Build 'EM purdy and fly. ---H
 
I try to have my fillet width reflect the size of the model.
IT's not complicated - BT-5 models get narrower fillets, BT-55 get wider fillets.

I have seen a BT-50 based model with very wide epoxy fillets.
For me, it just looked too thick on the low end.

Too thick a fillet (epoxy on a smaller model) can add weight and lower the center of gravity.
 
The technical answer can be found in Fluid Dynamic Drag by Hoerner. It is experimentally determined, but is a decent balance between frontal area and eliminate vortex inducing corners. The reason it doesn't depend on span or body tube diameter is because it is a very local effect. Unless the span is <~10% of the root, the air can't tell how long the span its, it may as well be infinite. For rocket fins span is typically at 50-150% of the root chord.
 
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I try to avoid using fillets most of the time, but not because of performance. I just think they are UGLY!!!
TTW and/or using a lightweight glass cloth gusset eliminate the need for fillets.
 
The technical answer can be found in Fluid Dynamic Drag by Hoerner. It is experimentally determined, but is a decent balance between frontal area and eliminate vortex inducing corners. The reason it doesn't depend on span or body tube diameter is because it is a very local effect. Unless the span is <~10% of the root, the air can't tell how long the span its, it may as well be infinite. For rocket fins span is typically at 50-150% of the root chord.

The problem is that it depends on just how you interpret Hoerner's data. The rule of thumb first cited by Stine and repeated by others comes from a chart in Chapter 8 of my edition which applies to airplane struts that have a t/c ratio of about 0.3.

However, earlier in the chapter (I don't have it in front of me right now) is a chart and relevant discussion in which Hoerner strongly implies that for airfoils with a very low t/c, fillets are at best worthless for reducing drag and at worst can increase drag. Since most rocket fins have very low t/c ratios, I tend to think that a proper reading of Hoerner would indicate that external fillets should
Be no larger than is required for structural integrity.

When I point this out I generally find that nobody changes their minds but also that nobody can come up with a rebuttal to the argument. So I guess you should do what makes you feel good. Without hard data for a configuration similar to the one we typically deal with in rocketry it will probably continue to be a religious argument.
 
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Wrong answer Bill, you should have told him that if he wanted it to be more aerodynamic then he needs to buy a fly away rail guide.
 
I made mine a size that looked good with the rocket and would be at least as strong as I needed them to be.
 
Now that right there is a GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT! (Good answer Daniel!)

Ha! Well, I wish I could make more time. As it is, I can devote about two days a week to rocketry. The rest of the week, I'm a bit too tired most of the time to get anything done. So I hang out on TRF and the NAR Facebook page.
 
The technical answer can be found in Fluid Dynamic Drag by Hoerner. It is experimentally determined, but is a decent balance between frontal area and eliminate vortex inducing corners. The reason it doesn't depend on span or body tube diameter is because it is a very local effect. Unless the span is <~10% of the root, the air can't tell how long the span its, it may as well be infinite. For rocket fins span is typically at 50-150% of the root chord.

The problem is that it depends on just how you interpret Hoerner's data. The rule of thumb first cited by Stine and repeated by others comes from a chart in Chapter 8 of my edition which applies to airplane struts that have a t/c ratio of about 0.3.

However, earlier in the chapter (I don't have it in front of me right now) is a chart and relevant discussion in which Hoerner strongly implies that for airfoils with a very low t/c, fillets are at best worthless for reducing drag and at worst can increase drag. Since most rocket fins have very low t/c ratios, I tend to think that a proper reading of Hoerner would indicate that external fillets should
Be no larger than is required for structural integrity.

When I point this out I generally find that nobody changes their minds but also that nobody can come up with a rebuttal to the argument. So I guess you should do what makes you feel good. Without hard data for a configuration similar to the one we typically deal with in rocketry it will probably continue to be a religious argument.

I had been wondering about this as well. Is the optimum fillet radius for a Hi-Flier really several times that for a Wizard, for example? So, earlier today, I searched and found this thread. Just went through Chapter 8 of Hoerner.

The 4-8% rule of thumb is suggested on p. 8-12, in the text above Figure 29, which is the basis for it.

The general discussion in that section of the chapter, however, is dealing with thick wing airfoil sections and struts having thickness/chord (t/c) ratios of (to report specific examples discussed in the paper) 0.3 (Figure 27) and 0.435 (Figure 30). As Bill Cook points out, Figure 26 indicates that the interference drag becomes very small for t/c ratios below 0.1, with a zero crossing around t/c = 0.5-0.6. With smaller t/c ratios, the interference drag is graphed as negative and there is no differentiation below the zero crossing between with and without fillet.

On p. 8-16, discussing (c) Tail Surfaces, Hoerner points out that Figure 34 indicates again that interference drag on horizontal stabilizer surfaces at the very aft end of a fuselage can actually be negative at zero lift with a crossing (zero) point around 2 degrees angle of incidence.

I agree that this all supports that, "external [model rocket fin] fillets should be no larger than is required for structural integrity." They add weight to the wrong end of the rocket while increasing frontal area, with the aerodynamic advantages, if any, being minimal.

A survey of full-scale sounding rocket and missile fins suggests that fillets are simply not a thing in that world, where vast resources are available to optimize the designs and adding something like fillets would be an easy way to increase performance (on which hangs life/death and the fate of nations, or otherwise substantial sums of money) if it worked.
 
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However, earlier in the chapter (I don't have it in front of me right now) is a chart and relevant discussion in which Hoerner strongly implies that for airfoils with a very low t/c, fillets are at best worthless for reducing drag and at worst can increase drag. Since most rocket fins have very low t/c ratios, I tend to think that a proper reading of Hoerner would indicate that external fillets should Be no larger than is required for structural integrity.

When I point this out I generally find that nobody changes their minds but also that nobody can come up with a rebuttal to the argument. So I guess you should do what makes you feel good. Without hard data for a configuration similar to the one we typically deal with in rocketry it will probably continue to be a religious argument.
Great post.... I learned something today. :shocked:

So this means we'll never ever again see huge fillets on a TTW fin rocket... :cool:

FWIW: t/c: Thickness-to-chord ratio

thickness to chord ratio.jpg
a=chord, b=thickness, thickness-to-chord ratio = b/a
 
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