bandman444
Well-Known Member
Before even starting this thread I KNOW there will be a million nay sayers to the methods I plan on using for this rocket.
The goal for this project is to demonstrate simple staging and sustainer ignition techniques that can be used on rockets very small to very large. The point of this rocket is to act as a test bed to figure out any possible kinks before trying to fly larger.
I have a very different mind set on this rocket than most of you guys.
There have been some extremely well documented two stage rockets on here and Rocketry Planet. Jim Jarvis, Adrian Adamson, and Ken Biba and others are in my mind the two stage masters, although not successful 100% of the time, they have had their successes prove wonders to the hobby. There is one thing to note though, complexity. Perhaps they will tell you otherwise, but to fly a two stage rocket the way they do it requires hours of prep, and tedious assembly. That is NOT what this rocket will be.
I don't want others to claim my attempt to be reckless, because from the way I see it I personally think that you become more reckless with the more complexity you add.
KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is a phrase I like a lot, but for this rocket I want to make an edit, KISS will mean Keep It Safe and Simple in this thread. I in no way plan on building a rocket that is purposely unsafe.
This rocket will be a 4" to 3" rocket with the motor mounts being 54mm-38mm respectively. The transition or "inter-stage coupler" as some call it will be a LOC 4" to 3" transition. At first I didn't think a plastic coupler would be strong enough, but our onsite vendor had one and I was impressed with the stiffness, and I think with minimal reinforcement it will work very well.
I plan on going into more detail in the coming week, but I will get out as much information as I can.
Both body tubes will use Blue Tube 2.0, and based on what I have in my parts pile, the 54mm MMT will be Blue Tube, 38mm MMT will be LOC Paper tubing, and the nose cone will be a 3" plastic LOC nosecone. I'v got a couple plywood centering rings for it and I think that sums up the build materials.
Now the most important/daunting part of any High Power Two Stage is the electronics. This is where I will differ most from other flyers. I am NOT a electronics guru, and to be honest some of the electronics available for rocketry scare me, because if you don't know everything about them you could end up making simple mistakes because of pure ignorance, most electronics problems are solved easily after the fact, just further proving my point.
There are, as I have mentioned, many extremely high tech rocketry electronics on the market right now. This project will not be using any of them.
There will be 4 electronic actuated events:
Stage separation
Sustainer Ignition
Sustainer Apogee
Sustainer Main
Stage Separation:
Stage Separation will occur 1 Second after Booster Burnout and will be triggered by a PET2 timer that is in the "inter-stage coupler". A small black powder charge will be used to perform the separation, ground testing of course will done.
Sustainer Ignition:
Sustainer ignition will occur X seconds after Stage Separation and will be triggered by a second PET2 timer this time located in the sustainer Av-bay. Because CTI 38mm motors will be used in the Sustainer Ignition will always be from an unaugmented CTI E-match style ignitor that will be at the top of the motor against the BP ignition pellet.
Sustainer Apogee and Main Deployment:
Pretty self explanatory, a MAWD and RRC2 will be used in the standard dual deployment of the sustainer body.
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The Name "Metallic Bliss" is from what I hope the rocket will look like when it is done. It will using the Aluminum fins that I have made. They actually will be the test pieces, and although are not 100% perfect they will perform perfectly for this build.
I envision a very smooth sexy rocket, with some mylar highlights and some cool holographic decals from Mark at Stickershock23.com
The first question I get from people is "Everything you say would work great if the flight was perfect, but what about a less than perfect flight?"
First you must consider the possible failures. The first few that comes to most peoples mind is "what about if it doesn't separate?" or "What if it doesn't light the sustainer?" (One of the most common failures of High Power two stage rockets)
No separation:
If the rocket fails to separation it will coast at a slower speed until the sustainer ignition charge is fired, then separation will be mandatory. Of course I don't want that to happen, but if it does it will result in a lower altitude and a probably a melted "inter-stage coupler". Not a huge loss because the couplers are around $19 and available onsite.
No Sustainer ignition:
If separation were to occur, but no ignition simply the rocket will continue travelling till apogee is reached and the Dual Deployment altimeters will fire a apogee charge and a main charge, the rocket may land a little bit faster due to the extra weight of the unfired motor, but a slightly larger than required chute will be used for the main of the sustainer.
No separation or sustainer:
Someone was going to ask. :eyeroll: This is the slightly more humorous failure which will prove that I need to go back and fly more Estes rockets. With no separation or ignition it will likely end up similar to the above scenario. But since the booster will remain attached the boosters motor ejection charge will have the boosters main chute out and again the sustainer will have regular Dual Deployment, just while attached to a booster under parachute. Tangles would probably be the biggest worry. Extremely unlikely.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well hopefully you have enjoyed the beginning of this build thread, the pictures of what I have so far are on my cell phone I will post those shortly.
Be sure to subscribe to this thread if you are interested in the outcome of this build.
Thanks
The goal for this project is to demonstrate simple staging and sustainer ignition techniques that can be used on rockets very small to very large. The point of this rocket is to act as a test bed to figure out any possible kinks before trying to fly larger.
I have a very different mind set on this rocket than most of you guys.
There have been some extremely well documented two stage rockets on here and Rocketry Planet. Jim Jarvis, Adrian Adamson, and Ken Biba and others are in my mind the two stage masters, although not successful 100% of the time, they have had their successes prove wonders to the hobby. There is one thing to note though, complexity. Perhaps they will tell you otherwise, but to fly a two stage rocket the way they do it requires hours of prep, and tedious assembly. That is NOT what this rocket will be.
I don't want others to claim my attempt to be reckless, because from the way I see it I personally think that you become more reckless with the more complexity you add.
KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is a phrase I like a lot, but for this rocket I want to make an edit, KISS will mean Keep It Safe and Simple in this thread. I in no way plan on building a rocket that is purposely unsafe.
This rocket will be a 4" to 3" rocket with the motor mounts being 54mm-38mm respectively. The transition or "inter-stage coupler" as some call it will be a LOC 4" to 3" transition. At first I didn't think a plastic coupler would be strong enough, but our onsite vendor had one and I was impressed with the stiffness, and I think with minimal reinforcement it will work very well.
I plan on going into more detail in the coming week, but I will get out as much information as I can.
Both body tubes will use Blue Tube 2.0, and based on what I have in my parts pile, the 54mm MMT will be Blue Tube, 38mm MMT will be LOC Paper tubing, and the nose cone will be a 3" plastic LOC nosecone. I'v got a couple plywood centering rings for it and I think that sums up the build materials.
Now the most important/daunting part of any High Power Two Stage is the electronics. This is where I will differ most from other flyers. I am NOT a electronics guru, and to be honest some of the electronics available for rocketry scare me, because if you don't know everything about them you could end up making simple mistakes because of pure ignorance, most electronics problems are solved easily after the fact, just further proving my point.
There are, as I have mentioned, many extremely high tech rocketry electronics on the market right now. This project will not be using any of them.
There will be 4 electronic actuated events:
Stage separation
Sustainer Ignition
Sustainer Apogee
Sustainer Main
Stage Separation:
Stage Separation will occur 1 Second after Booster Burnout and will be triggered by a PET2 timer that is in the "inter-stage coupler". A small black powder charge will be used to perform the separation, ground testing of course will done.
Sustainer Ignition:
Sustainer ignition will occur X seconds after Stage Separation and will be triggered by a second PET2 timer this time located in the sustainer Av-bay. Because CTI 38mm motors will be used in the Sustainer Ignition will always be from an unaugmented CTI E-match style ignitor that will be at the top of the motor against the BP ignition pellet.
Sustainer Apogee and Main Deployment:
Pretty self explanatory, a MAWD and RRC2 will be used in the standard dual deployment of the sustainer body.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Name "Metallic Bliss" is from what I hope the rocket will look like when it is done. It will using the Aluminum fins that I have made. They actually will be the test pieces, and although are not 100% perfect they will perform perfectly for this build.
I envision a very smooth sexy rocket, with some mylar highlights and some cool holographic decals from Mark at Stickershock23.com
The first question I get from people is "Everything you say would work great if the flight was perfect, but what about a less than perfect flight?"
First you must consider the possible failures. The first few that comes to most peoples mind is "what about if it doesn't separate?" or "What if it doesn't light the sustainer?" (One of the most common failures of High Power two stage rockets)
No separation:
If the rocket fails to separation it will coast at a slower speed until the sustainer ignition charge is fired, then separation will be mandatory. Of course I don't want that to happen, but if it does it will result in a lower altitude and a probably a melted "inter-stage coupler". Not a huge loss because the couplers are around $19 and available onsite.
No Sustainer ignition:
If separation were to occur, but no ignition simply the rocket will continue travelling till apogee is reached and the Dual Deployment altimeters will fire a apogee charge and a main charge, the rocket may land a little bit faster due to the extra weight of the unfired motor, but a slightly larger than required chute will be used for the main of the sustainer.
No separation or sustainer:
Someone was going to ask. :eyeroll: This is the slightly more humorous failure which will prove that I need to go back and fly more Estes rockets. With no separation or ignition it will likely end up similar to the above scenario. But since the booster will remain attached the boosters motor ejection charge will have the boosters main chute out and again the sustainer will have regular Dual Deployment, just while attached to a booster under parachute. Tangles would probably be the biggest worry. Extremely unlikely.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well hopefully you have enjoyed the beginning of this build thread, the pictures of what I have so far are on my cell phone I will post those shortly.
Be sure to subscribe to this thread if you are interested in the outcome of this build.
Thanks
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