The NEW North Coast ARGO D-4 JAVELIN ( 1:11.7 ) "Sport Model"

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Hmm . . . On closer inspection . . .

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Model-Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-4-Model-Rocket-Kits/Argo-D4-Javelin ( along with Tim's 22.7% mark-up from the $179.99 MSRP , to $220.99 )

https://northcoastrocketry.com/products/argo-d4-javelin-1-17-sport-scale-model

(3D parts designed by Mike Nowak. 3D parts printed by Galactic Manufacturing.
List Price: $179.99.)

The Nike Fin Cans appear to be the Quest injection molded units, not 3D printed.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/bmz_cache/1/155b65877f24d73aac1911e02a1afda4.image.320x320.jpg

The Nose Cone appears to be an Estes part, not 3D printed.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/bmz_cache/1/1cca70c8115cad6981d9ed86b127a713.image.320x320.jpg

Only these parts are 3D printed, it appears . . .

https://www.apogeerockets.com/bmz_cache/f/f07e495cc6ce124ee2f87934dbb71f96.image.320x320.jpg

The entire kit . . . Is it worth $180.00 ?

https://www.apogeerockets.com/bmz_cache/a/a53a3d1ea0e5295c6f601c1c49c9f611.image.320x320.jpg

Dave F.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

What is the point on all that Dave, are the Pod Bay Doors Open yet

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

FYI 2 of your links are blocked, go fix that

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
What is the point on all that Dave, are the Pod Bay Doors Open yet

The "point" is that the new kit is out and, after viewing the details and particulars, each person will have to make an informed decision, one way or the other, about purchasing or not purchasing one.

The images, provided on the Apogee website, give much better views of the makeup of the kit, than the North Coast Rocketry website does.

Also, a "heads-up" about the Apogee price mark-up was included.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
The "point" is that the new kit is out and, after viewing the details and particulars, each person will have to make an informed decision, one way or the other, about purchasing or not purchasing one.

The images, provided on the Apogee website, give much better views of the makeup of the kit, than the North Coast Rocketry website does.

Also, a "heads-up" about the Apogee price mark-up was included.

Apogee does price mark ups on products that they cannot attain wholesale so that their institutions that buy from them on 6 months to pay POs only can get product from them. This has been known for at least 2 decades now?

I all know too well way back when that PO orders in April would not be paid until September or October.... and a few times took phone calls to get them to remember.

North Coast is not going to take POs for this rocket.

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
FYI 2 of your links are blocked, go fix that

Thanks for the "heads-up" . . . Links are fixed now.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

I think I had a smaller FLiss Kit of this rocket I sold here when I was clearing out my Lair. Still more stuff in my Rocket Lair to clear out.

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
Apogee does price mark ups on products that they cannot attain wholesale so that their institutions that buy from them on 6 months to pay POs only can get product from them. This has been known for at least 2 decades now?

I all know too well way back when that PO orders in April would not be paid until September or October.... and a few times took phone calls to get them to remember.

North Coast is not going to take POs for this rocket.

That is precisely why I only use the Apogee website as a "catalog" ( they have more detailed information shown ) . . . I then go searching for the best deal(s) elsewhere . . . The only time I ever buy anything from Apogee is when they are the only source for an item.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

I also remember flying NARAM C division against that rocket at VOA Ohio. I think they got 2nd or 3rd and I got 4th with my AeroSpike.

It is a really Nice Rocket

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
I also remember flying NARAM C division against that rocket at VOA Ohio. I think they got 2nd or 3rd and I got 4th with my AeroSpike.

It is a really Nice Rocket

That was against the larger fully 3D-printed version, right ?
The smaller, "sport scale" version just came out.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
That was against the larger fully 3D-printed version, right ?
The smaller, "sport scale" version just came out.

It was Team division not C sorry my Brain Fog

It was not 3D printed that I can think of back then ; never heard of 3d Printing in those days

HEre is the 47 results; we were running as Booster Boys to try to spoff Bumbling Bothers; perhapes they had a large black brant ??

https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/naram-the-nationals/naram-history/naram-47-results/#event9

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
It was Team division not C sorry my Brain Fog

It was not 3D printed that I can think of back then ; never heard of 3d Printing in those days

HEre is the 47 results; we were running as Booster Boys to try to spoff Bumbling Bothers; perhapes they had a large black brant ??

https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/naram-the-nationals/naram-history/naram-47-results/#event9

There were 3 Black Brant's in Team division at NARAM-47 . . . "Bumbling Brothers Flying Circus" (Peter Alway & his brother) had a Black Brant IX

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

The ONLY reason my static score was low is because the Ink Jet printer I used did not do the same color translation as the rocket was done in; yet it was done in the color of the original. but it had better electronics that faithfully did what the prototype was to do and mission points prevailed over "Ok I got dinged to an Ink jet printer color error in docs?"

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
The ONLY reason my static score was low is because the Ink Jet printer I used did not do the same color translation as the rocket was done in; yet it was done in the color of the original. but it had better electronics that faithfully did what the prototype was to do and mission points prevailed over "Ok I got dinged to an Ink jet printer color error in docs?"

Sounds like "politics" may have been a factor in the judging.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
Sounds like "politics" may have been a factor in the judging.

It was not by the judge I can tell you that, it was complainers; Hey to this day I am glad I got 4th place in a NARAM Scale.

That was fun

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
It was not by the judge I can tell you that, it was complainers; Hey to this day I am glad I got 4th place in a NARAM Scale.

That was fun

The Judge(s) still had to score it as they did, either honestly or by the "court of public opinion". Apparently, they chose the latter.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
The Judge(s) still had to score it as they did, either honestly or by the "court of public opinion". Apparently, they chose the latter.

There was a "scale judging guide" published about that , which was not part of the pink book just opinions ; I did not fault them on that it was in their on the DOCs but I never read it before... So mission points still prevailed and I am happy about it not mad or upset... just a thing that happened !

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
There was a "scale judging guide" published about that , which was not part of the pink book just opinions ; I did not fault them on that it was in their on the DOCs but I never read it before... So mission points still prevailed and I am happy about it not mad or upset... just a thing that happened !

I found it curious that the "Flying I-Beam Kids" ( Long Tom ) placed 2nd in Static but, apparently, did not fly the model.

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Dave, the moral of the Story is if your going to fly scale at a large regional or NARAM, you better read up on all the "Scale Judging Guides" .... that is what I failed to do....

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
I found it curious that the "Flying I-Beam Kids" ( Long Tom ) placed 2nd in Static but, apparently, did not fly the model.

I don't know why but there is a funny back story on the I-Beams at that NARAM. If you look you can see my D Egg loft SEP on first flight. The I-Beams where my Trackers... The Eggs Hit their SUV... I ran over their and KapLaws Wife [who's EZ-up was right next to it] came out with paper towels and spray and helped me clean the egg stuff off their SUV before the Egg stuff could ruin the paint in the heat...

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
Dave, the moral of the Story is if your going to fly scale at a large regional or NARAM, you better read up on all the "Scale Judging Guides" .... that is what I failed to do....

Agreed . . . It just seems that the pertinent information wasn't distributed in advance, or early enough, for everyone to be aware of it.

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
I don't know why but there is a funny back story on the I-Beams at that NARAM. If you look you can see my D Egg loft SEP on first flight. The I-Beams where my Trackers... The Eggs Hit their SUV... I ran over their and KapLaws Wife [who's EZ-up was right next to it] came out with paper towels and spray and helped me clean the egg stuff off their SUV before the Egg stuff could ruin the paint in the heat...

Priceless . . . LOL !

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
Agreed . . . It just seems that the pertinent information wasn't distributed in advance, or early enough, for everyone to be aware of it.

If it is not in the Pink Book, most will never know about it like I did not and that was not my first Rodeo

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
If it is not in the Pink Book, most will never know about it like I did not and that was not my first Rodeo

It's a shame you didn't file a protest . . .

Art Upton · May 31, 2023

Ez2cDave said:
It's a shame you didn't file a protest . . .

No reason to, I finished and was happy ; no reason to stir up pots that would not pan out

Ez2cDave · May 31, 2023

Art Upton said:
No reason to, I finished and was happy ; no reason to stir up pots that would not pan out

Perhaps, but there is no certainty that you were the only one affected by that policy.

At any rate, it's "water under the bridge".

Bluegrass Rocket · Jun 1, 2023

I’d say the nose cone is from Quest since the fin cans are.

Ez2cDave · Jun 1, 2023

Bluegrass Rocket said:
I’d say the nose cone is from Quest since the fin cans are.

Agreed . . .

SolarYellow · Jun 1, 2023

Someone land the plane for me. That looks a lot like an Estes BT-60 nose cone for the Big Bertha/Baby Bertha. But Quest doesn't make fin cans that fit BT-60. Quest does have a similar nose cone for its T40 tubing, which is close to BT-60 size, but I can't find a Quest kit that has a fin can anything like those in T40 size. Also, it's not easy to find quality closeups of the Quest fin cans, but the one-piece cans don't seem to have the wedge LE/TE of the North Coast kit. Someone should point to exactly what parts they think these are.

Ez2cDave · Jun 1, 2023

Since the Fin Cans appear to be the Quest units ( same size fins ), modelers should note that the uppermost Nike stage uses a SMALLER Fin set. I have included a few things below that might be helpful.

Dave F.