Teflon / PTFE tape streamer?

[SolarYellow]

I saw here where Micromeister used 1/2 x 9" PTFE gas line sealing tape for a streamer on a 0.281"-dia. MicroMaxx rocket.

I searched and found you can buy the stuff 1-inch wide.

https://www.amazon.com/Duda-Energy-ThreadSeal-1-2g-050x260-Yellow-Teflon-Thread/dp/B013OJEMXO
Seems like it would be really easy to tie into an alpine knot in a 100-lb Kevlar shock cord in a BT-5 to BT-20 rocket. Cheap enough to replace as often as it needed replacing.

There are posts about making pom-poms out of the 1/2-inch wide PTFE tape for reusable wadding, which implies that it's substantially fireproof on its own. So perhaps a PTFE streamer could be used a larger than MMX rocket without additional wadding. ...saving both weight and BT length.

Does anyone else do this? Anyone tried it and had it work well or fail?

 

[OzHybrid]

Give it a flame test. If it passes, you're good to go.
The tape I've got here would pass but does decompose if held in a full gas flame for a bit of time. That's a lot more than you'd get with an ejection charge.

 

[SolarYellow]

I did a search and found a lot of posts where Micromeister advocated its use for bigger rockets, including showing ribbons up to 2 inches wide. And he definitely indicated it does double duty as both streamer and wadding, or a waddingless streamer. He advocated powdering it; some with talc, other posts recommend mixing talc with chalk line chalk. Will have to try this. I've run into a situation where I didn't really have enough room for the streamer I wanted to use and the wadding. This could solve that.

 

[cbrarick]

Let's see.....
it's a PFAS and won't break down for thousands of years, they are called "forever chemicals" in the industry
it's deadly poisonous to birds
It's really not all that good for humans....

you make the call!

 

[SolarYellow]

It stays with the rocket and doesn’t litter the landscape like wadding or dog barf.

 

[David Schwantz]

Would not be my first choice, but to each.....
Have you ever thought of ribbon? I go to JoAnn's fabric and get ribbon, very thin and lots of bright colors.

 

[David_Stack]

There are also party crepe streamers, most of which have been treated to be flame retardant/repellent to some degree (so may alleviate the need entirely for wadding, though I do use a few squares between the motor and the streamer in my Estes Astron Sprint clone)

 

[Hobie1dog]

I would think a landowner would get aggravated at getting off his machinery to stop and pick up bright white tape laying on his property.

 

[Tractionengines]

If you flame test PTFE (Teflon)... DO NOT breathe any of the fumes that come off.

When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury. Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of PTFE.

 

[mh9162013]

Sounds like it might work, but you're just trading one drawback for another.

You do you, though.

 

[techrat]

I used an Ikea paper tape measure... Free at ikea. and it works well.

 

[SolarYellow]

I would think a landowner would get aggravated at getting off his machinery to stop and pick up bright white tape laying on his property.

I can only imagine that happening with a rocket attached. Micromeister used it as a waddingless streamer, not as wadding.

And there are different colors available in 1, 1.5, and 2-inch widths:
https://www.mcmaster.com/44945K16/

 

[rharshberger]

I can only imagine that happening with a rocket attached. Micromeister used it as a waddingless streamer, not as wadding.

And there are different colors available in 1, 1.5, and 2-inch widths:
https://www.mcmaster.com/44945K16/

Actually iirc he also had a "pom-pom" wadding made from teflon tape that could be used instead of the regular waddings we use.

 

[SolarYellow]

Actually iirc he also had a "pom-pom" wadding made from teflon tape that could be used instead of the regular waddings we use.

Mentioned in the OP.

 

[SolarYellow]

Let's see.....
it's a PFAS and won't break down for thousands of years, they are called "forever chemicals" in the industry
it's deadly poisonous to birds
It's really not all that good for humans....

you make the call!

If you flame test PTFE (Teflon)... DO NOT breathe any of the fumes that come off.

When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury. Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of PTFE.

https://www.petcoach.co/article/teflon-toxicity-ptfe-toxicosis-in-birds-signs-and-preventio/
The hazards associated with heating PTFE occur only at high temperatures. Handling it or even ingesting it at room temperature is not known to be harmful in any way. It's unlikely that the PTFE in a streamer, exposed to flame temperature for a fraction of a second by the ejection charge hundreds or thousands of feet in the air, is going to harm anything or anyone. There simply isn't time for the material to reach the bulk temperature required except maybe at the actual point of contact with a cinder, and then it's immediately air cooled for a long time during the descent. Even if a bird was flying right next to the rocket at the moment of ejection, singed feathers would be a much greater hazard to the little fellow. At least that's how I read the stuff I was able to find fairly quickly.

 

[Tractionengines]

@SolarYellow I fully agree with your explanation that, in use, the ejection charge will not release hazardous material vapors...

BUT an early post in the thread (#2) recommended doing a "flame test" of the material. Doing a flammability test of PTFE in a typical rocket build area COULD DEFINITELY over heat the PTFE to the point of releasing poison gas into someone's house or shop. THAT is what I wanted to stress.

(As someone who got a whiff of decomposing PTFE, I can tell you it's NOT something to be around at all.)

 

[OzHybrid]

@SolarYellow I fully agree with your explanation that, in use, the ejection charge will not release hazardous material vapors...

BUT an early post in the thread (#2) recommended doing a "flame test" of the material. Doing a flammability test of PTFE in a typical rocket build area COULD DEFINITELY over heat the PTFE to the point of releasing poison gas into someone's house or shop. THAT is what I wanted to stress.

(As someone who got a whiff of decomposing PTFE, I can tell you it's NOT something to be around at all.)

I fully agree, fumes from things you're testing should not be inhaled. Unless it's required as part of the test.
Unfortunately, you cannot do a flame test without a flame. I had the cooker extractor on and it goes outside, not recirculated.

The poisons teflons release (a member of the same family) is one of the reasons I do not have any teflon-coated pots or pans.......

 

[shockie]

50 or so years ago in the old Model Rocketeer magazine, somebody suggested using Teflon wads for recovery wadding. So you might be able to use it even without wadding. I don't think the ejection charge is going to be on it long enough to set it on fire.

 

[cbrarick]

the bird doesn't have to die from pfas poisoning. it's just gotta choke on it.
eating it without choking on it would be another issue

 

[cbrarick]

It stays with the rocket and doesn’t litter the landscape like wadding or dog barf.

Ever shred a rocket?? or have a motor CATO????

 

[OzHybrid]

Ever shred a rocket?? or have a motor CATO????

You'd probably be best to stop launching rockets. Let's be honest, they're not environmentally friendly. This is a specific requirement for a small diameter rocket.

 

[cbrarick]

nahh you should probably not use teflon which is a PFAS, which is one of our worse environmental hazards. We shouldn't do anything that could release it into our environment. it's gonna stick around for 4.4 million years. I'm just saying that it's better to use other materials.

Your decision, I'm out!

 

[SolarYellow]

Well, a roll of 1-inch was in my mailbox today. So I will at least try it. It probably isn't the best option for every rocket it could be used in, but it will probably be the best in some.