simulating a pulse detonation flight

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rstaff3

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I have built a Rocksim model of a full scale Project Orion Hot Rod test vehicle, including an attempt to simulate propulsion via the detonation of high explosive charges. Please follow the link to my blog in the sig. I have 2 posts so far on it and it is not quite there. You can see a nice animation of Project Orion thru the link in my earlier post entitled "bomm, boom, boom, boom"

I know explosives and rocketry don't mix in our world. This is merely an exercise to see if I can match the model to the real world test that was run in 1959.
 
Dick

That's a bit different the the current concept of a pulsed detonation engine which is a very practical supersonic version of the V-1 buzz bomb motor.

The Project Orion Hot Rod concept has to be very inefficient compared to a conventional engine. In space there would be very little coupling of the nuclear explosive energy to the rocket, since most of the energy of the explosive energy is radiated away into space. Energy deposited into the pusher plate causing ablation is the sole source of thrust and I would believe that most of the ablation would occur in a few milleseconds of the explosion. To get a significant delta v, either you would have a huge acceleration rate, or require a massive shock absorber of unknown design to reduce the apparent acceleration to the payload.

In the atmosphere, the energy couping would be more efficient due to the momentum imparted by the air, but again, the efficiency would be horrible.

I checked out the video of the actual test flight. I think calling the flight stable is a stretch.

It might be simplier to do the simulation in wRASP. Simulate the BP motar as the first stage to get the velocity, and the make the second stage the actual vehicle. The thust curve is simply a square pulse repeated n times.

If you take the basic concept and beam up laser energy at ~ kHZ or so to an ablative heat shield, you have one of the many pulsed laser propulsion concepts that has been proposed. In the 70's and 80's we demonstrated that both pulsed and CW laser heated thrusters were feasible and could have specific impulse in the 1000-3000 second range, but unfortunately the laser jocks haven't come up with a Gigawatt average power pulsed laser.

Have fun.

Bob
 
Thanks for the input Bob. My simulation has improved i.e. getting closer to the observed performance. I am confident that this is not a good approach, but has been fun fooling with it. IIRC, the in-space Orion would eject water just prior to the detonation, to act as additional propellant. In the references I saw somewhere, the Orion's pulse was expected to be in the 10's of ms total. I got numbers for HE explosions. However, since the pulse is exponentially falling, most of the energy is near the inital spike. Since the force of the initial pulse is so high, the profile of this pulse can easily give an order of magnitude difference in the results. I suspect my main issues are that the actual profile is impossible for me to calculate simplistically, and the composition of the charge is mostly unknown (ration of explosive to binder, particle size of the explosive, etc.)
 
Originally posted by bobkrech
The Project Orion Hot Rod concept has to be very inefficient compared to a conventional engine. In space there would be very little coupling of the nuclear explosive energy to the rocket, since most of the energy of the explosive energy is radiated away into space. Energy deposited into the pusher plate causing ablation is the sole source of thrust and I would believe that most of the ablation would occur in a few milleseconds of the explosion. To get a significant delta v, either you would have a huge acceleration rate, or require a massive shock absorber of unknown design to reduce the apparent acceleration to the payload.

You should really read the book, <I>Project Orion</I> by George Dyson.

The little atomic bomblets were NOT to be simple bombs. They would be encased in shells of material which would vaporize and carry the energy of the explosion to the pusher plate.

A lot of work was done to determine the right material for the "wrapper." To work effectively, the stuff had to absorb (by opaque to) the energy of the blast.

One material they were considering: Urea. <I>Pee!</I> There were thoughts of making additional wrappers <I>en route</I> using urea extracted from the toilets. They eventually found other materials which worked even better.

As for overall efficiency, in terms of what? The original design, with a pusher plate hundreds of feet across, was predicted to have an Isp in the vicinity of 10,000 seconds! This is three times as much as our current-best-effort ion motor. The thrust would be appreciable, not just a trickle.
 
Stefan

I think "Project Orion" was as much as "have the bomb, must find a peaceful civilian use to justify funding" as anything else. (Project Plowshare is another example that comes to mind. https://www.llnl.gov/str/Hacker.html)

I have worked professionally in the high performance propulsion community for more than 3 decades, so I am aware of the various propulsion concepts that have be proposed over the years. High Isp is only one requirement for a thruster system. Equally important items are high propulsive efficiency and high thrust.

Many satellites have reentered with their high Isp thrusters blasting full bore because they can't develop enough thrust to maintain the necessary delta V to overcome atmospheric drag as their orbits decay.

In the case of the pulsed nuclear detonation rocket, thrust may not be the issue but the propulsive efficiency is horrible at low velocities. You have maximum propulsive efficiency when the exhaust gas velocity equals the vehicle velocity. If you have a 10 KT explosion, the plasma velocity is 100 km/s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion If you are moving at 10 km/s, this give a propulsive efficiency of 10%. This is akin to spinning your wheels at a drag strip because your tires can't couple the energy to the road. Additionally most of the vehicle mass is not payload, it's shielding and reaction mass, totally worthless to the mission.

Nuclear propulsion definately has a place in deep space exploration, however it needs to be part of a combined cycle energy system. The heat from fission has to be used to generate steam for vehicle electrical power as well as to heat the propellant gases that generate thrust to propel the spacecraft. Large amounts of water need to be present to provide shielding from deep space radiation, to provide a volume to grow aquatic plants and animals for food, process wastes, absorb CO2 and generate oxygen, and provide a thermal mass for temperature stability. Water provides the highest density storage for both hydrogen and oxygen at the same time, and in a non-cryogenic form. With a nuclear power plant, the water can be broken down into oxygen for breathing and hydrogen for a propellant. The reaction mass fraction of this type of propulsion system is substantially less than that of a Dyson drive system, alowing for a higher useful vehicle payload mass fraction.

Nuclear thermal rocket motors are possible with today's technology, and are a more practical and useful propulsion system for deep space exploration vehicles than the Dyson drive for which none of the technology has been developed, or is likely to be developed in the next several centuries, if ever. The real thermomechanical issues of repetitive nuclear detonation plasmas impinging on surfaces has not been studied, and the perceptions on survivability in the original concept are likely wrong based on ongoing research.

Bob Krech
 
Now this went over my head. I don't know enough to debate the issue but my personal feeling is there were several technical issues that would make the project difficult or impossible to implement. Including political.

I DO know the PETN needs more than a LEUP and isn't allowable under TRA rules ;) So my model will stay a model.

I did some more study and found a formula for the total impulse of a PETN charge against a circular plate, but I got confused with the introduction of one term in the final equation. Either I need to do more study or consider I got close enough. Even if I refine the solution, there are other factors that will keep my solution from being much more accurate.
 
I fail to see why this is so complicated. You get the rocket off the pad on something dependable like an F50 then airstart a CATO....

Most of us could probably do this without the math.
 
Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
I fail to see why this is so complicated. You get the rocket off the pad on something dependable like an F50 then airstart a CATO....

Most of us could probably do this without the math.

AHAHAHA!!! Excellent!

Give it a whirl and let us know what you come up with. :D
 
Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
I fail to see why this is so complicated. You get the rocket off the pad on something dependable like an F50 then airstart a CATO....

Most of us could probably do this without the math.

Multiple CATOs. Brilliant!
 
Heh that's good. You just have to direct the force in the right direction and not out the side of the fincan.

Well, I unconfused myself (I'm also selling bridges if ya' want one). You can see my final efforts in installment 4 of my blog series.
 

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