SEMROC PRICES MORE THAN DOUBLE!?!? APRIL FOOLS?!?!

[dave carver]

I went to order a bunch of parts, starting with the Centuri Parts Assortment. I've been watching the prices for a while so I know that it WAS $16...it's now $34!! Nosecones and body tubes, the same increases, more than double.

IF this an April Fool's joke it backfired and Uncle Mike got my money.

I just don't get it

 

[Sheryl@semroc]

We do not have the Centuri Beginner's Special (SPA-4) in stock at this time but the $16 price was over six years and we just got around to changing our prices. The cost of everything has more than doubled just in the past 2 years.

Sheryl

 

[foamy]

I just don't get it

Go into business and you will.

Hm. I just compared apples and apples and don't see a problem. Kit prices are comparable to any of the competition's. Parts? I notice some BT's are more than Mike's. But then again, who has more choices than Semroc (just how many different gauges, types and styles of tubes does Semroc carry? At what cost to them?)? What's the difference in quality? How often are inventories re-stocked? I don't know. I do think I'd consider more than some select parts before I went blasting away on the interwebs.

 

[pepe]

Semroc prices are very fair and if you add in their great service you have one first class company. I've never purchased anything from them that made me feel like I didn't get value for the dollar.

 

[belfert]

We do not have the Centuri Beginner's Special (SPA-4) in stock at this time but the $16 price was over six years and we just got around to changing our prices. The cost of everything has more than doubled just in the past 2 years.

Increasing prices by 100% will usually cost a business a lot more customers than slowly increasing the prices over the years.

 

[dave carver]

"Consider"... I spent the month "considering" my purchases. I have no idea about the prices of kits, I don't build them so I have no idea how they compare to others. I only know what I see and what I see is an assortment of tubes from SEMROC is almost $24, Mike's $7.50 and 5 of the 7 tubes are SEMROC's... yeah, no problem there:eyeroll:

This is all I have to say on this, I'm sick to my stomach and have a migrane from this. I was a happy customer of their's now it just makes me sick.

Good luck to all and keep the pointy end up.

 

[troj]

"Consider"... I spent the month "considering" my purchases. I have no idea about the prices of kits, I don't build them so I have no idea how they compare to others. I only know what I see and what I see is an assortment of tubes from SEMROC is almost $24, Mike's $7.50 and 5 of the 7 tubes are SEMROC's... yeah, no problem there

My guess is you'll see an increase in Uncle Mike's prices, in time, from the sounds of it -- Mike may well have "old stock" sitting on the shelf. Or, SEMROC realized they need to raise their prices, and have done so, and are in the process of getting word out to their dealers, who may have not yet raised their prices accordingly.

Are price increases disappointing? You bet. But does Semroc have a choice, if they cannot afford the old prices, while their prices have increased? Nope.

Regardless, is Dave out of bounds in grumbling about it? Absolutely not.

At the end of the day, for me, personally, this will have zero impact -- Sheryl, Carl and company have treated me well over the years, and I will continue to buy from them. But, that's my decision, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best decision for someone else.

-Kevin

 

[RWmarlow]

The Standard tube and nose Cone assortments were great deals....I remember Jumping on several of those very recently... and wondering why the prices were so low ....still a decent price for sure...but I guess I will go back to buying tubes per piece....(yea sometime i DO use Items purpose built for the Sport/Hobby)

 

[FastCargo]

"It's nothing personal, it's just business."

As cliché as the phrase is, it is true. If you are getting sick and/or a migraine from the cost of a hobby, then you are making it personal. Semroc is not out to get you. And I'm pretty sure they aren't happy having to raise their prices because they know it will cost them some good will.

It is easy to say they can raise their prices over a long stretch of time if the costs rising follows a predictable curve. However, costs can fluctuate due to factors outside of your control or view. It can also take time to determine if a cost change is permanent or not...one only has to look at gas prices to see that. Businesses have to evaluate if a cost change is short term or long term, and adjust their prices accordingly. They can ride out a short term change with reduced profits...but if it's a long term cost increase, they will have to increase their prices accordingly.

Couple of other things to note. Several rocketry businesses are small industries, run out of someone's garage. Some of them are 'supplemental income' business...basically, you can run the business at break even or at a loss because you can get a tax writeoff for stuff you would have used for your hobby anyway. Making a clear profit is secondary in businesses like that, and so you can run your margins pretty lean. Semroc seems large enough that they have to run a profit so everyone gets paid and makes a living. Considering all their product is made in the US (except for the balsa stock I'd imagine), it means their stuff will be pricer as they don't rely on outsourcing. Folks say they would pay a little more for US manufactured products, but balk when they find out the true cost. For a while Levis jeans would sell a style of jeans that were manufactured in 2 different places. One was from overseas, the other was in the US. The US sourced jeans were double the price. That didn't last long....they don't offer the US sourced jeans anymore.

It's okay to shop by price...that's what competition is for. But they are not out to get you...really.

FC

 

[dave carver]

Well, I do feel somewhat better now, sometimes it takes very little to set me off. Yeah, I'm betting the prices of tubes even at Unk Mike's will be riseing here soon. My best bet is to go there now and spend the shipping refund I just got from him

 

[Carl]

Dave,

Thanks for the heads-up. I have removed all the assortments from stock. It was probably a mistake to have offered them when we did, but several people asked for them. When we introduced the Centuri Beginner's Special, the price for all the parts purchased individually was $25.00. We priced it at $16.00 to give a 35% discount on the individual parts. The original Centuri SPA-4 cost $4.95 in 1969 and adjusted for inflation, it would have cost $28.46 in 2008 (based on a 5.75 CPI increase from 1969 to 2008). I felt that was too much to ask. In fact, I thought $25.00 was too high. The last price was slightly lower than the individual parts ordered separately, but just over the $31.18 the SPA-4 from Centuri would cost today based on the CPI. Still, at today's prices, a designer's special is not the deal it once seemed. Ordering just the parts needed will always be better.

Price increases are hard to swallow for manufacturers as well as consumers. Since we bought balsa back in 1968, the CPI is 6.3 times higher, yet the cost of balsa has gone up 11.4 times what we paid in 1968. Since we started back in 2008, the CPI has increased to 1.3, yet balsa has gone up 2.75 times 2002 prices and tubes have increased 1.6 times 2002 prices. Postage has doubled (which we pay) and freight has more than doubled to get parts in. It costs more now to ship empty boxes from our supplier than the actual cost of boxes.

We are looking at dropping the larger nose cones from inventory, since the cost of the balsa is so high. A large nose cone has almost $9.00 worth of balsa in it. If we turn it for 4 minutes and discover an internal knot, worm hole, or blemish, we lose money on the sale. Ten years ago, that same piece would have cost $3.25.

Much of what we offer is a service to the rocket community. If we cut everything back to the highest volume, highest margin products, we might be able to show a profit. But profit is obviously not the reason we are in business! We will never be able to have the lowest prices. That is a fact. We do not have the volume to get raw materials any cheaper than our customers can. We decided many years ago to make everything in the USA, so we cannot do anything about labor costs. And we are NOT a garage-based business; the garage just holds most of the tubes. We are a "whole-home-based business." :lol:

All that said.

Dave,
We want all our friends to be happy with our service. We were going to send you one of the Designer's Specials at no charge for your trouble with this, but just before I posted this, I got an email from a good friend of yours from this forum that was going to do the same thing. Proof that there are no better friends than "rocket friends." Instead, we are sending you a Gift Certificate for $50 so you can make your own Designer's Special.

 

[foamy]

"Consider"...

Well, evidently I did not. I thought you were one of the folks just spouting off against a perceived injustice. So, what did I do? I did just what I thought you were doing. That makes me a hypocrite. I was wrong. I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person—it just doesn't show very often.

My sincere apologies.

 

[troj]

We want all our friends to be happy with our service. We were going to send you one of the Designer's Specials at no charge for your trouble with this, but just before I posted this, I got an email from a good friend of yours from this forum that was going to do the same thing. Proof that there are no better friends than "rocket friends." Instead, we are sending you a Gift Certificate for $50 so you can make your own Designer's Special.

Wow! :eyepop:

If that isn't customer service, then I truly don't know what is.

Carl, you folks continue to amaze me.

-Kevin

 

[goldlizard]

Wow! :eyepop:

If that isn't customer service, then I truly don't know what is.

Carl, you folks continue to amaze me.

-Kevin

+1
You guys are the best. :handshake: :clap:

 

[JStarStar]

Carl and SEMROC have always gone the extra metric mile to try to do right by the customer.

Prices on all consumer goods are going up, it's not like he is just sitting there deciding to stick it to the customers.

 

[sylvie369]

Look at all this adult behavior, and on the internet, of all places. Amazing. It's very good to see this. Congratulations all around.

 

[powderburner]

How about:

THANKS, Semroc, for working so hard to keep these prices as low as you can for all these years, and for NOT jacking them (to CYA) at the first hint of a chance of a threat of supplier price increases. Thanks also for sticking with our hobby for all these years, and not rolling over on us to try to become a "profit center" (like some manufacturers have done in the past).

Your support for our hobby (passion?) is very much appreciated, at least by some of us.

 

[JAL3]

How about:

THANKS, Semroc, for working so hard to keep these prices as low as you can for all these years, and for NOT jacking them (to CYA) at the first hint of a chance of a threat of supplier price increases. Thanks also for sticking with our hobby for all these years, and not rolling over on us to try to become a "profit center" (like some manufacturers have done in the past).

Your support for our hobby (passion?) is very much appreciated, at least by some of us.

Well said!

 

[FastCargo]

Much of what we offer is a service to the rocket community. If we cut everything back to the highest volume, highest margin products, we might be able to show a profit. But profit is obviously not the reason we are in business! We will never be able to have the lowest prices. That is a fact. We do not have the volume to get raw materials any cheaper than our customers can. We decided many years ago to make everything in the USA, so we cannot do anything about labor costs. And we are NOT a garage-based business; the garage just holds most of the tubes. We are a "whole-home-based business." :lol:

Carl, Sheryl and the whole Semroc team:

I want to thank you for all you've done for the rocketry community. I had wondered publicly if your business was sustainable as a profit making venture, considering everything you offer on your website. It sounds more like a labor of love than a business.

I would be bummed out if you have to discontinue your larger nose cones...but your reasons are perfectly understandable. The reason I haven't bought yet more of your offerings is that I already have a huge backlog to build!

But, for as long as you offer your services, I will be a customer.

FC

 

[dave carver]

...well, dog gone it, I was about to send Carl a reply to his PM offering the gift card. I can't take it. It(what I said) was just an internet whine. Any reasons or excuses(for me) I come up with sound lame to me so...




edit: I thought about what I said here and I hope everyone knows I'm refering to me, not Carl. I have a bad habit of writing in *shorthand* and meaning can get lost. That's what the inserts are for

 

[luke strawwalker]

Dave,

Thanks for the heads-up. I have removed all the assortments from stock. It was probably a mistake to have offered them when we did, but several people asked for them. When we introduced the Centuri Beginner's Special, the price for all the parts purchased individually was $25.00. We priced it at $16.00 to give a 35% discount on the individual parts. The original Centuri SPA-4 cost $4.95 in 1969 and adjusted for inflation, it would have cost $28.46 in 2008 (based on a 5.75 CPI increase from 1969 to 2008). I felt that was too much to ask. In fact, I thought $25.00 was too high. The last price was slightly lower than the individual parts ordered separately, but just over the $31.18 the SPA-4 from Centuri would cost today based on the CPI. Still, at today's prices, a designer's special is not the deal it once seemed. Ordering just the parts needed will always be better.

Price increases are hard to swallow for manufacturers as well as consumers. Since we bought balsa back in 1968, the CPI is 6.3 times higher, yet the cost of balsa has gone up 11.4 times what we paid in 1968. Since we started back in 2008, the CPI has increased to 1.3, yet balsa has gone up 2.75 times 2002 prices and tubes have increased 1.6 times 2002 prices. Postage has doubled (which we pay) and freight has more than doubled to get parts in. It costs more now to ship empty boxes from our supplier than the actual cost of boxes.

We are looking at dropping the larger nose cones from inventory, since the cost of the balsa is so high. A large nose cone has almost $9.00 worth of balsa in it. If we turn it for 4 minutes and discover an internal knot, worm hole, or blemish, we lose money on the sale. Ten years ago, that same piece would have cost $3.25.

Much of what we offer is a service to the rocket community. If we cut everything back to the highest volume, highest margin products, we might be able to show a profit. But profit is obviously not the reason we are in business! We will never be able to have the lowest prices. That is a fact. We do not have the volume to get raw materials any cheaper than our customers can. We decided many years ago to make everything in the USA, so we cannot do anything about labor costs. And we are NOT a garage-based business; the garage just holds most of the tubes. We are a "whole-home-based business." :lol:

All that said.

Dave,
We want all our friends to be happy with our service. We were going to send you one of the Designer's Specials at no charge for your trouble with this, but just before I posted this, I got an email from a good friend of yours from this forum that was going to do the same thing. Proof that there are no better friends than "rocket friends." Instead, we are sending you a Gift Certificate for $50 so you can make your own Designer's Special.

Wow!!! I know who *I'll* be ordering parts from next time I need them, regardless of price... no doubt about that!

Semroc all the way, baby!!

And you took the time to answer the issue in a logical, sane manner, without reverting to the old "you aren't a cheapskate, are you?? or other insulting comments ending up with a "you're not the kind of customer we're looking for-- please leave and never come back" type comments like another vendor claiming to have "the best customer service in model rocketry"...

Maybe some folks will see the difference now...

Later and KUTGW Semroc!! OL JR

 

[Marc_G]

Hi Carl,

As always, you're a class act all the way.

May I request a point of clarification about what you mean by "larger nose cones" that you are considering discontinuing? I gasped when I read that. How big makes "larger?"

Also, I wonder if the price of balsa will be starting to drop. If I understand correctly, it was inflated for a while due to wind turbine construction using balsa cores. I thought I read on one of these rocketry forums that use of balsa in them is trailing off and other materials are now cheaper to use for that purpose, so perhaps there will be a downward rebound in the wholesale balsa price. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part.

I've always enjoyed the variety of nose cones you stock and would be sad to not have them available. I'm just working my way up to MPR...

Your devoted client,

Marc

 

[Mushtang]

Wow!!! I know who *I'll* be ordering parts from next time I need them, regardless of price... no doubt about that!

Semroc all the way, baby!!

And you took the time to answer the issue in a logical, sane manner, without reverting to the old "you aren't a cheapskate, are you?? or other insulting comments ending up with a "you're not the kind of customer we're looking for-- please leave and never come back" type comments like another vendor claiming to have "the best customer service in model rocketry"...

Maybe some folks will see the difference now...

Later and KUTGW Semroc!! OL JR

While reading that other thread I went back and read some of the other website's ramblings, and I was SHOCKED when I read "you're not the kind of customer we're looking for-- please leave and never come back"!!!!!!!

That made me vow never to buy anything from them - ever.

I'm very much enjoying what I'm reading from the Semroc people in this thread. I agree with Luke, I think I'll be buying stuff from Semroc soon. As I discussed in the other thread - companies make decisions that they think will bring more profits and different companies go about it different ways. Semroc is going about it in a way that is pleasing to my wallet, the other company... not so much.

Estes, Odd'l Rockets, Semroc, all have shown the best customer service that I've seen so far. I don't think I've ever bought anything from Semroc yet, but I'll be doing so soon.

 

[cruzsergio]

I just love SEMROC !
Their great ! I've bought from them so many times they probally know my information by memory LOL

SEMROC is the best !

 

[SteveA]

I just love SEMROC !

Agreed. On more than one occasion they have offered to replace parts without my asking. That act made me a loyal customer.

 

[Carl]

...well, dog gone it, I was about to send Carl a reply to his PM offering the gift card. I can't take it. It(what I said) was just an internet whine. Any reasons or excuses(for me) I come up with sound lame to me so...
edit: I thought about what I said here and I hope everyone knows I'm refering to me, not Carl. I have a bad habit of writing in *shorthand* and meaning can get lost. That's what the inserts are for

Dave,
Thank you for making our annual April Fool's Day post successful!

You asked a reasonable question. We do not consider that ever to be "whining". Without flak, you never know if you are over your target. I have always considered any criticism better than no feedback at all. All of this was taken in the best spirit by us.

We have had several orders from new customers (to us) based on this thread. We could not ask for more. The gift card was also meant as a gift from all of us on this forum, not just Semroc. Order something with it and post a build thread, then we all win!:wink:

 

[Mushtang]

Dave,
Thank you for making our annual April Fool's Day post successful!

You asked a reasonable question. We do not consider that ever to be "whining". Without flak, you never know if you are over your target. I have always considered any criticism better than no feedback at all. All of this was taken in the best spirit by us.

We have had several orders from new customers (to us) based on this thread. We could not ask for more. The gift card was also meant as a gift from all of us on this forum, not just Semroc. Order something with it and post a build thread, then we all win!:wink:

I'm confused. Was this an April Fools prank all along? So he didn't see prices he thought went up, didn't buy from someone else, no $50 gift card was sent, and the Semroc folks posting in here knew there was never an issue?

If so, that changes what I saw as being great customer service into something a lot less impressive.

 

[dave carver]

I was fooled, I hope, because I will be using the gift certificate in the spirit it was given. A grand prank for sure...if... As long as I've been here I haven't done much more than lurk and kibbitz. My rockets are of the 3-4FNC variety so I never write them up but I will be for the parts I'll be getting. He has new customers and most likely reinspiried old ones buying parts so it's all good.

 

[sandman]

I'm confused. Was this an April Fools prank all along? So he didn't see prices he thought went up, didn't buy from someone else, no $50 gift card was sent, and the Semroc folks posting in here knew there was never an issue?

If so, that changes what I saw as being great customer service into something a lot less impressive.

Understand something about Carl. He's the nicest guy you could know but all that niceness has a price...

Once a year Carl has to come up with a good April Fool gag.

Otherwise he'd explode:wink:

 

[Mushtang]

Understand something about Carl. He's the nicest guy you could know but all that niceness has a price...

Once a year Carl has to come up with a good April Fool gag.

Otherwise he'd explode:wink:

I feel like I was tricked into making a purchase that I otherwise wouldn't have made.

Maybe I should have been more suspicious since I knew it was April Fool's day. You got me with that one Carl. Dang it.