rocket video made by binoculars-cell phone connection

[mtnmanak]

Mtnmanak-thanks for the advice which appears to be based on a ton of experience. Those were exceptional videos that you attached to your post!
Which specific camcorders do you recommend for both 1080p and 4K? In addition, I enjoyed your level 3 build-beautiful job. Please respond or send pm on how to find the full build file if available.

Regards,
Fred

Hi Fred -

Here are my top picks for camcorders available right now, in order of cost:

Under $300: Sony HDRCX405 - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDRCX405-Recording-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B00R5LH9HO
At this price point, you are getting a full 1080p camera, but you are giving up a lot in the lens, the optical zoom and the stabilization. Still, at this price, this is a great camera!

$300-$500 - Panasonic HC-W580K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HC-W580K-Camcorder-Wi-Fi-Camera/dp/B01A60SXRK
Stepping up to the HCW580, you are still at 1080p, but you get a better lens, a massive increase in optical zoom capabilities and better stabilization. I have played with this camera on some far away shots and this may actually be one your best options for trying to capture video of rockets at high altitude. It also has the somewhat kitschy "twin camera" that some Panasonics include. It is one of those features that sounds better than it works in practice, but, it is cool they throw it in at this price point.

$500-$600 - Panasonic HC-V800K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HC-V800K-Cinema-like-Camcorder-Stabilizer/dp/B078J43SQW
If you want a really great 1080p camera, it is hard to beat the HC-V800. The Leica lens is excellent, the zoom and stabilization are top notch and you get HDR color. I do not own this camera, but have tried it. It is very good, but I have a hard time recommending it since, at this price point, you are in spitting distance of a decent 4K camera.

$700-$800 - Panasonic HC-VX981K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Camcorder-HC-VX981K-2-3-Inch-Smartphone/dp/B01A60SYRE
This is the price point I recommend getting into 4K. You can definitely find cheaper 4K camcorders (you can get a bunch of Minolta 4Ks for under $200, but they are stupendously crappy camcorders), but I think that, under this price point, the features on the 1080p cameras outweigh the resolution advantage. The VX981 was my first 4K camcorder and I absolutely loved it. I have probably 150 hours of my kids' sports, musicals, marching band, etc recorded on this camera and it always gave me incredible results. A few years ago, I stupidly left it on the back of a 4 wheeler while riding around on a farm field and one sharp turn sent it flying... and breaking. I almost bought another one, but decided to upgrade to a:

$1000+ - Sony FDR-AX700 - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-FDR-AX700-4K-HDR-Camcorder/dp/B075NZYZDG
This has been my favorite camcorder for the better part of 3 years now and I can't imagine not having it in my camera bag. Sony packed in most of the power and options of their extremely expensive pro-cams into this model, yet it is still small enough to be hand held easily. There are a ton of aftermarket accessories to trick it out for fast motion recording. It also does a great job on my electronics bench to record close up work like the videos I have done for eggtimer boards (example: ).
The Zeiss lens is amazing, the HDR quality is superb and the sensor is unparalleled at this price point. One of the things you get in high end cameras is better/fast focusing. The AX700 has an amazing ability to find that rocket spec at high altitude and focus in on it.

As you go from the low end to the high end, there are number of things that you may not think about up front, but become really important. For example, the higher end cameras usually have better batteries that last longer. No matter which camera you get, make sure to buy at least one spare for the field. High end cameras also usually have more expansive storage options. This is not trivial if you get a 4K camera. An hour of 4K video can often hit about 40GB. You need large storage that is fast enough to write all that massive amount of data to the card without skipping frames. Super fast, large capacity SD cards are not cheap - make sure you factor that cost in.

For the AGM-33 build, you can find all of it here, along with a PDF of the L3 submission packet:

https://www.mountainmanrockets.com/index.php/builds/8-inch-agm-33-pike-build/

 

[manixFan]

One thing to try to help with rocket tracking it so track soaring birds with your camera rig. I was just outside shooting photos of Mississippi Kites circling overhead with my 'rocket cam' setup and realized that it's good practice for rockets. It also shows why autofocus really doesn't work well with rockets against a blue sky – just not enough pixels for most autofocus systems. I also use manual white balance so the sky is the same color in all the photos, and if conditions permit, manual exposure as well. (Does not work well on cloudy days though.)

Even with binoculars, it's still good practice. Ideally you'd find a large bird of prey (or around here, turkey vultures are great targets as well) that is circling around on some decent thermals. Really, tracking any fast moving object is good practice, but nowadays you have to be very sensitive to where you take any powerful looking zoom lens or binoculars.

Good luck,


Tony

 

[FMarvinS]

One thing to try to help with rocket tracking it so track soaring birds with your camera rig. I was just outside shooting photos of Mississippi Kites circling overhead with my 'rocket cam' setup and realized that it's good practice for rockets. It also shows why autofocus really doesn't work well with rockets against a blue sky – just not enough pixels for most autofocus systems. I also use manual white balance so the sky is the same color in all the photos, and if conditions permit, manual exposure as well. (Does not work well on cloudy days though.)

Even with binoculars, it's still good practice. Ideally you'd find a large bird of prey (or around here, turkey vultures are great targets as well) that is circling around on some decent thermals. Really, tracking any fast moving object is good practice, but nowadays you have to be very sensitive to where you take any powerful looking zoom lens or binoculars.

Good luck,


Tony

Hi Fred -

Here are my top picks for camcorders available right now, in order of cost:

Under $300: Sony HDRCX405 - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDRCX405-Recording-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B00R5LH9HO
At this price point, you are getting a full 1080p camera, but you are giving up a lot in the lens, the optical zoom and the stabilization. Still, at this price, this is a great camera!

$300-$500 - Panasonic HC-W580K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HC-W580K-Camcorder-Wi-Fi-Camera/dp/B01A60SXRK
Stepping up to the HCW580, you are still at 1080p, but you get a better lens, a massive increase in optical zoom capabilities and better stabilization. I have played with this camera on some far away shots and this may actually be one your best options for trying to capture video of rockets at high altitude. It also has the somewhat kitschy "twin camera" that some Panasonics include. It is one of those features that sounds better than it works in practice, but, it is cool they throw it in at this price point.

$500-$600 - Panasonic HC-V800K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HC-V800K-Cinema-like-Camcorder-Stabilizer/dp/B078J43SQW
If you want a really great 1080p camera, it is hard to beat the HC-V800. The Leica lens is excellent, the zoom and stabilization are top notch and you get HDR color. I do not own this camera, but have tried it. It is very good, but I have a hard time recommending it since, at this price point, you are in spitting distance of a decent 4K camera.

$700-$800 - Panasonic HC-VX981K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Camcorder-HC-VX981K-2-3-Inch-Smartphone/dp/B01A60SYRE
This is the price point I recommend getting into 4K. You can definitely find cheaper 4K camcorders (you can get a bunch of Minolta 4Ks for under $200, but they are stupendously crappy camcorders), but I think that, under this price point, the features on the 1080p cameras outweigh the resolution advantage. The VX981 was my first 4K camcorder and I absolutely loved it. I have probably 150 hours of my kids' sports, musicals, marching band, etc recorded on this camera and it always gave me incredible results. A few years ago, I stupidly left it on the back of a 4 wheeler while riding around on a farm field and one sharp turn sent it flying... and breaking. I almost bought another one, but decided to upgrade to a:

$1000+ - Sony FDR-AX700 - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-FDR-AX700-4K-HDR-Camcorder/dp/B075NZYZDG
This has been my favorite camcorder for the better part of 3 years now and I can't imagine not having it in my camera bag. Sony packed in most of the power and options of their extremely expensive pro-cams into this model, yet it is still small enough to be hand held easily. There are a ton of aftermarket accessories to trick it out for fast motion recording. It also does a great job on my electronics bench to record close up work like the videos I have done for eggtimer boards (example: ).
The Zeiss lens is amazing, the HDR quality is superb and the sensor is unparalleled at this price point. One of the things you get in high end cameras is better/fast focusing. The AX700 has an amazing ability to find that rocket spec at high altitude and focus in on it.

As you go from the low end to the high end, there are number of things that you may not think about up front, but become really important. For example, the higher end cameras usually have better batteries that last longer. No matter which camera you get, make sure to buy at least one spare for the field. High end cameras also usually have more expansive storage options. This is not trivial if you get a 4K camera. An hour of 4K video can often hit about 40GB. You need large storage that is fast enough to write all that massive amount of data to the card without skipping frames. Super fast, large capacity SD cards are not cheap - make sure you factor that cost in.

For the AGM-33 build, you can find all of it here, along with a PDF of the L3 submission packet:

https://www.mountainmanrockets.com/index.php/builds/8-inch-agm-33-pike-build/

Mntmanak,
Thank you for that excellent review of the available camcorders on the market. I appreciate your comments on the particular units priced from $500 to $1000. Depending on available funds, I may go for the FDR AX-700. By the way, The material you reviewed merits being a permanent attachment, I'll ask a TRF reviewer to consider this. I also enjoyed reviewing the AGM-33 build file. I'm thinking of copying some of your concepts (e.g. switch bridge) into my next build.
Best regards,
Fred

 

[mtnmanak]

One thing to try to help with rocket tracking it so track soaring birds with your camera rig. I was just outside shooting photos of Mississippi Kites circling overhead with my 'rocket cam' setup and realized that it's good practice for rockets. It also shows why autofocus really doesn't work well with rockets against a blue sky – just not enough pixels for most autofocus systems. I also use manual white balance so the sky is the same color in all the photos, and if conditions permit, manual exposure as well. (Does not work well on cloudy days though.)

Even with binoculars, it's still good practice. Ideally you'd find a large bird of prey (or around here, turkey vultures are great targets as well) that is circling around on some decent thermals. Really, tracking any fast moving object is good practice, but nowadays you have to be very sensitive to where you take any powerful looking zoom lens or binoculars.

Good luck,


Tony

This is a really great suggestion. All the best gear in the world is only as good as your ability to use it. How do you get good rocket tracking videos? Practice, practice, practice.

 

[FMarvinS]

One thing to try to help with rocket tracking it so track soaring birds with your camera rig. I was just outside shooting photos of Mississippi Kites circling overhead with my 'rocket cam' setup and realized that it's good practice for rockets. It also shows why autofocus really doesn't work well with rockets against a blue sky – just not enough pixels for most autofocus systems. I also use manual white balance so the sky is the same color in all the photos, and if conditions permit, manual exposure as well. (Does not work well on cloudy days though.)

Even with binoculars, it's still good practice. Ideally you'd find a large bird of prey (or around here, turkey vultures are great targets as well) that is circling around on some decent thermals. Really, tracking any fast moving object is good practice, but nowadays you have to be very sensitive to where you take any powerful looking zoom lens or binoculars.

Good luck,


Tony

Tony-Thank you for your suggestions. Its logical and enables me to practice before I acquire an apropriate camera!
Regards,
Fred

 

[Blast it Tom!]

I've seriously considered the Nikon P1000 for tracking flights.

I use a P610. I need to get better at it but I've gotten some pretty good results. Low power stuff, though, 500 -1000 ft. Auto focus can be detrimental and following is almost impossible through the eyepiece.

 

[Pyropawpaw]

Hi Fred -

Here are my top picks for camcorders available right now, in order of cost:

Under $300: Sony HDRCX405 - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDRCX405-Recording-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B00R5LH9HO
At this price point, you are getting a full 1080p camera, but you are giving up a lot in the lens, the optical zoom and the stabilization. Still, at this price, this is a great camera!

$300-$500 - Panasonic HC-W580K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HC-W580K-Camcorder-Wi-Fi-Camera/dp/B01A60SXRK
Stepping up to the HCW580, you are still at 1080p, but you get a better lens, a massive increase in optical zoom capabilities and better stabilization. I have played with this camera on some far away shots and this may actually be one your best options for trying to capture video of rockets at high altitude. It also has the somewhat kitschy "twin camera" that some Panasonics include. It is one of those features that sounds better than it works in practice, but, it is cool they throw it in at this price point.

$500-$600 - Panasonic HC-V800K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HC-V800K-Cinema-like-Camcorder-Stabilizer/dp/B078J43SQW
If you want a really great 1080p camera, it is hard to beat the HC-V800. The Leica lens is excellent, the zoom and stabilization are top notch and you get HDR color. I do not own this camera, but have tried it. It is very good, but I have a hard time recommending it since, at this price point, you are in spitting distance of a decent 4K camera.

$700-$800 - Panasonic HC-VX981K - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Camcorder-HC-VX981K-2-3-Inch-Smartphone/dp/B01A60SYRE
This is the price point I recommend getting into 4K. You can definitely find cheaper 4K camcorders (you can get a bunch of Minolta 4Ks for under $200, but they are stupendously crappy camcorders), but I think that, under this price point, the features on the 1080p cameras outweigh the resolution advantage. The VX981 was my first 4K camcorder and I absolutely loved it. I have probably 150 hours of my kids' sports, musicals, marching band, etc recorded on this camera and it always gave me incredible results. A few years ago, I stupidly left it on the back of a 4 wheeler while riding around on a farm field and one sharp turn sent it flying... and breaking. I almost bought another one, but decided to upgrade to a:

$1000+ - Sony FDR-AX700 - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-FDR-AX700-4K-HDR-Camcorder/dp/B075NZYZDG
This has been my favorite camcorder for the better part of 3 years now and I can't imagine not having it in my camera bag. Sony packed in most of the power and options of their extremely expensive pro-cams into this model, yet it is still small enough to be hand held easily. There are a ton of aftermarket accessories to trick it out for fast motion recording. It also does a great job on my electronics bench to record close up work like the videos I have done for eggtimer boards (example: ).
The Zeiss lens is amazing, the HDR quality is superb and the sensor is unparalleled at this price point. One of the things you get in high end cameras is better/fast focusing. The AX700 has an amazing ability to find that rocket spec at high altitude and focus in on it.

As you go from the low end to the high end, there are number of things that you may not think about up front, but become really important. For example, the higher end cameras usually have better batteries that last longer. No matter which camera you get, make sure to buy at least one spare for the field. High end cameras also usually have more expansive storage options. This is not trivial if you get a 4K camera. An hour of 4K video can often hit about 40GB. You need large storage that is fast enough to write all that massive amount of data to the card without skipping frames. Super fast, large capacity SD cards are not cheap - make sure you factor that cost in.

For the AGM-33 build, you can find all of it here, along with a PDF of the L3 submission packet:

https://www.mountainmanrockets.com/index.php/builds/8-inch-agm-33-pike-build/

This might not be an appropriate place for this question, but I'll ask it here anyway. What temperature do you run your soldering iron? My eggtimer projects haven't always ended in success. My soldering skills are good, but I probably use too much heat.

 

[mtnmanak]

This might not be an appropriate place for this question, but I'll ask it here anyway. What temperature do you run your soldering iron? My eggtimer projects haven't always ended in success. My soldering skills are good, but I probably use too much heat.

Pretty much for all my PCB soldering, I set the temp to 680 deg F (360 C) and use a 0.5mm conical tip iron (https://hakkousa.com/t15-b2-conical-tip.html)

For more general soldering (ie. soldering wires to terminals, etc), I usually use a slightly larger gauge solder and set the temp to 720 deg F and use a 3.2mm bevel tip (https://hakkousa.com/t15-bc28-bevel-tip.html)

 

[DirkTheDaring]

Does anyone have any info on the 0808 style spycams used in rocketry?

I use one all the time very decent quality for the cost. Here’s a video it shot today, part of I slowed down use the Timecut app.

 

[Alex-Heffer]

Here's a Sony Handycam FDR-AX53 handycam video of an L3 launch visible to 11,400ft
An eyecup and a hat with sunshield around the side helps. Start zoomed out and then zoom in.
Only possible with this camera with a blue sky background as any cloud with throw out the high altitude focus.

 

[Alex-Heffer]

I use one all the time very decent quality for the cost. Here’s a video it shot today, part of I slowed down use the Timecut app.

Yes 808 work well and being small and with a built in battery are easy to setup.

 

[jhornsby3]

Even using my Nikon with a Tamron 150-600mm lens, it's extremely hard to catch rockets moving fast in flight. In my 20 years of shooting "Go Fasts", there is more failed shots than even a good shot.

This is an F-15 of the Oregon Air National Guard at over 600mph. This is almost a mile out from me. This shot was with the above mentioned 150-600mm lens.



Same lens and camera with a golden hour shot of a "M" powered launch. This was from the safe distance for this class. Tracking a rocket in flight with a hand held camera is not out of the question, but the lens one would need to get such a shot, would have to be mounted on a stable base, mounted in the back of a truck. At 3000 feet, that rocket would be very hard to see in most lenses.

 

[FMarvinS]

Those are great shots, thanks for the info in addition!